Radio interview with New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin

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It sounds like the Mayor is trying to cover his butt ... he's been missing for days, some have attributed that to him being down on the streets and saving people ...

Let's break down the conversation ... "Where's the beast?" ... I've seen looters on TV, but only reports of rapes ... why these reports?

"Where's the ships" ... takes some days to get there sir ...

Resources to saving people? .... what about reports that in some places 60% of the police force have walked off not reporting in to help stop the looters ...

"I need troops man" ... but there's no beast in the city ... troops would be needed to circumvent food and supplies but why the need for more?

"I need busses and drivers" ... yeah, so he could have done that earlier since there are so many buses in NO .... could have gotten out earlier ... http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/0...flpc21109012015 .... thanks Drudge report

"God is looking down" ... 'and other politicians will pay the price' ... I think he'll pay the price too for not acting faster and not being more responsible

"Nothing happening to Levee's" ... that maybe true ... but you have to admit they have been delivering sandbags and trying ... but it's true, something should be happening faster

"Looting was getting out of control" ... so does that mean there is a "beast" in the city?

"News showing people looting and doing weird stuff" ... "knuckleheads" ... "People are trying to live and survive" ... yes, and that's why new shoes, shirts, and other items not of food and water are important

"Drug starving crazy attics are causing havoc" ... "We can only target certain sections of the city" ... "hope to God we're not overrun" ... goes back to the police force leaving their posts ... right?

"We gave instantaneous powers to the President after 9/11 ... lickedy split" ... yes, haven't we done that here? The state of emergencies, congress acting to push funding ... what's the story? Am I wrong?

"Organize letters, write emails, requests" ... what!? I'd rather do something first hand ... volunteer, help ... what a horrible request by the mayor

"Too dog gone late" ... yeah, maybe because you didn't act fast enough

"Come down to this city and stand with us" ... "Get off your ass and do something" ... "biggest crisis in the history of this country" ... NOTE: numerous websites are campaigning for relief ... thanks for offending the American Red Cross ... National Gaurd ... etc.

I'm not on the mayor's side and I can't say much for anyone else ... not even the FEMA director ... so many press conferences, etc. ... we should be getting our hands dirty and digging in to help.
 
I agree Amos that the feds were hampered by the thugs to be able to help and alot more force needed to be shown by troops but I still think the local and state officials carry the most blame for lack of preparation that led to this situation in the 1st place. Now the Army and Guard have to come in and restore order.

Also of note is I dont think the lawlessness would have been as bad in many other cities. NO has always been a violent city with one of the highest murder and violent crime rates in the country. Gangs run much of the city and police have always been undermanned in this city. In the wake of Andrew there were some looters but the majority of people helped each other reguardless of race or economic level. You dont see that here. even some of the ones that have been evacuated to other cities are causing trouble.
 
I believe the quote is "where's the beef", a reference to old TV commercials. The mayor was saying that all of these state and federal officals keep promising help, but he's not seeing any of it actually arriving.


BC
 
I believe the quote is "where's the beef", a reference to old TV commercials. The mayor was saying that all of these state and federal officals keep promising help, but he's not seeing any of it actually arriving.


BC
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Shoot ... you are probably correct ... I shouldn't have jumped to such a fast conclusion ... but the "beef" is coming thankfully although slowly
 
The reason you don't see rapes on television should be fairly clear. It's not a stretch of the imagination at all to think that if people are going to try to break into a hospital or shoot at military trying to SAVE THEIR LIVES that they would go around violating women at gunpoint as well. I really don't want to see that, even though I know it's going on.
 
dcguy

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks Giuliani's leadership is needed...

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http://www.wnbc.com/politics/4930151/detail.html

WASHINGTON -- Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., urged President Bush to appoint former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani or two former military officials to run the ground response in the Gulf Coast, saying local authorities are not up to the task.

{ stuff deleted }

"We owe it to the American people to have America's best leaders with experience on the ground running this," said Sweeney. "It's been painfully obvious over the last four or five days that the circumstances and challenges coming at us are new, are nothing that had ever been anticipated."

Sweeney said Giuliani proved his ability to lead in a crisis during the Sept. 11 attacks, adding the president should also consider Franks or Powell, men with long military resumes.

{ stuff deleted }

When then-FEMA director Joseph Allbaugh responded to Sept. 11, Sweeney said, "There was real leadership on the ground. Joe Allbaugh did a pretty good job by taking direction from Mayor Giuliani."
 
The buses in that photo would have been enough to evacuate at least 8,000 people. I counted approximately 200 buses in the photo at 40 people per bus.
 
Why the crap are we even discussing the govt. right now? Its not even a week in the making and people pointing fingers and saying would have could have should have is only costing people lives. Instead of sitting around yappin about the govt. people need to be calling the Red Cross.
 
Why the crap are we even discussing the govt. right now? Its not even a week in the making and people pointing fingers and saying would have could have should have is only costing people lives. Instead of sitting around yappin about the govt. people need to be calling the Red Cross.
Click to expand...

Well, a few points.

1. Calling the red cross takes 30 minutes, tops. Less than 5 if you donate over the internet.

2. Other than giving money, most of us are geographically seperated to the extent that helping directly with our time is unlikely. I live in Nebraska, and I'm seriously considering making a trip south with as much water/baby formula/non perishables as I can find. I have a week off coming up Tuesday. However, at this point I think I would be more of a hindrance than a help -- what those people need as a coordinated relief effort, not random people showing up from all over the country and then getting stranded without gas or shelter and becoming part of the problem.

3. It is highly appropriate for Americans to question why tens of thousands of fellow Americans are dieing because of lack of relief five days after a predictable natural disaster. I'm not pointing fingers when I say that, I'm only saying that complacency never gets things done any faster and people ARE dieing every minute. Now that the politcos can smell the smoke from the fire lit under their feet, they're in full-out lets-get-it-done mode. Four days ago, when they were all still on vacation, that wasn't the case. They all know now that America IS going to blame someone(s) for this and none of them want to be the poor sap left standing when the music stops.
 
When you see people defending this federal response, you have to admit that there's no point in trying to exchange ideas with them. They would defend this government no matter what happens or to whom, unless it happens to them of course. There is no set of circumstances under which they would not post the same things. They will never surprise you. The lack of shame required to blame (1) the victims themselves, and (2) the leader of a gutted, ruined city should demonstrate that the devotion of the apologists is fanatical. They don’t apply critical thinking. What we call all see with our eyes does not influence their thinking. It is set in stone!

There will be a day of reckoning, and those who know in their bones that government failed us (at all levels---local, federal, and state), must remember these moments for a time when your voices will be called upon.

If anything is obvious in this fog of war it is that only the federal government had the power and might to handle the utter desolation of a massive American city. We all know that. Look at what happened today. When a convoy of heavily armed combat troops rolled into New Orleans, with a cigar-chomping general officer in the lead truck who described his Iraq veterans as "proficient in the use of lethal force," did any of the armed gangs take them on? Hell no!

Did those armed thugs show the same fear of the N.O.P.D.? Of course not! They quickly surmised that NOPD was outmanned, outgunned, and without supplies. They won't be so brazen with the infantry. They'll run for cover, and if we're all lucky they will die of disease and dysentery within a few days.

Make no mistake, only the US government can project this kind of force. Only George W Bush can announce himself as the supreme warlord on the block without ambiguity. He needed to do it sooner, but I'm grateful that he did it today.

We don't have to convince the most disingenuous among us of this. Their agenda isn’t to make sure these people are saved, or even well-served. That’s up to the rest of us.
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Very well put Amos. I can already see the usual tricks of putting blame elsewhere. Blame anything but the federal government, the only arm with enough resources to save the lives of those. How can anyone blame the mayor who has been up night and day fighting for the resources necessary and not receiving them.

Of course he deserves to be blamed for everything because he had his Liberal Hurricane Magnet on. If only he could have just shut his mouth and not critizced the government for sitting on its ass while his city was being destroyed.
 
Re: dcguy

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks Giuliani's leadership is needed...

------------------------------------------------

http://www.wnbc.com/politics/4930151/detail.html

WASHINGTON -- Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., urged President Bush to appoint former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani or two former military officials to run the ground response in the Gulf Coast, saying local authorities are not up to the task.

{ stuff deleted }

"We owe it to the American people to have America's best leaders with experience on the ground running this," said Sweeney. "It's been painfully obvious over the last four or five days that the circumstances and challenges coming at us are new, are nothing that had ever been anticipated."

Sweeney said Giuliani proved his ability to lead in a crisis during the Sept. 11 attacks, adding the president should also consider Franks or Powell, men with long military resumes.

{ stuff deleted }

When then-FEMA director Joseph Allbaugh responded to Sept. 11, Sweeney said, "There was real leadership on the ground. Joe Allbaugh did a pretty good job by taking direction from Mayor Giuliani."
Click to expand...

Not his leadership but if he knows how to use a chainsaw or has a boat he might be of some use. Entire city flooded/armed gangs/disease/no way to move around/no communications/no power/little federal assitance until several days out VS. The WTC being destroyed and the federal government providing financial assitance?
 
Given the circumstances and the complexeties of the unbelievable situation - food - manpower - medication - water - military - engineers -
DOES ANYONE HERE REALLY THINK THEY COULD HAVE DIRECTED a quicker approach?
THERE IS GONNA BE MISTAKES - lets GET ER DONE - and figure the short comings out later, OK? When 800 people died in Iraq this week did we post threads about that TRAVESTY?
God Bless America and please try not to feed into the TV bickering lets focus on some positives here.......thank you
 
Here's a post I made yesterday on another forum before the massive convoys of troops and supplies started reaching downtown NO. Considering some of the emotional and irrational garbage I've read in this thread, I will repost it here.



Some people seem to mean well but have a very poor grasp when it comes to logistics. Logistics folks, is the key here. And logistics is not simple.

For example, we could within a matter of a few hours add 5,000 troops on the ground. That's the easy part. But what happens when those 5,000 troops run out of supplies? Huh? They are nothing more than victims themselves at that point because they can't get around and they can't resupply themselves.

Before we can truly start helping people, we must first get the logistics in place. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. And unfortunately, it takes time. For every 5,000 troops we send into the city, we'll need 25,000 in the area to support them. You can't get that many people into place overnight. It takes time. Those navy ships that left their east coast ports will bring tremendous help when they arrive. But again, they can only sail so fast and they can't make the ships go faster.

Think people. When you send just 5000 troops into Louisiana, what do you need in place to sustain them? If they bring 200 trucks with them, do you realize how much diesel they are going to need to operate those? Guess what? That has to be brought in too because there is none available locally. These men have to eat and have somewhere to stay too. So there's more shipments that must be made. Helicopters? Those require a ton of fuel as well as maintenance. So all of that has to be brought in too. It takes an amazing amount of material to support such an ongoing operation. It's simply not feasible to snap your fingers and have everything there you need immediately. It defies physics.

To be honest, I think some of the blame I'm seeing people tossing around is borderline retarded. It comes from a lack of knowledge. So many people seem to be totally clueless what it takes to make something like this work. This is a disaster people! It's a disaster that in size and scope is unlike ANYTHING we've ever dealt with. It spans 4 states. Such a disaster simply pushes our capabilities to the max, in fact, it's really beyond our abilities. That's why it's a disaster. If this was a picnic it wouldn't be a disaster would it?

Our government at the local, state and federal level are doing their best. I'll admit, their best isn't enough. But I'll also admit, knowing just what is involved here that it's simply such a large scale disaster that no matter what, people are going to suffer. I hate to see this footage on the news of people in these dire situations as much as anyone here. But I'm also realistic enough to understand that not everyone can be helped right away, as much as I'd love to see that. It just isn't physically possible. That's the cold hard truth. You may not like it, but that's just the way it is.

The situation will get better as more men, materials and equipment arrive. But as I said, that unfortunately takes time. Many of the units called up several days ago are just now completing mobilization and reaching the area. Many in this country expect everything to be instant coffee, but that's just now how the real world works.

There's no way this is ever going to be a good situation. It will still be bad in a week. It'll be bad a month from now. But it will get better. But sadly, there will probably be some people who it will be too late for. That's not the fault of government. Government simply can't save everyone caught in situations like this all the time. In fact, people's total dependence on the government these days is a huge factor in this situation to begin with. Had people taken a few measures on their own...such as attempting to evacuate when they had the chance or stocking emergency supplies before the storm hit, like the government recommends, the misery and suffering could have been reduced.

You can toss blame around all you want. You can try to politicize this all you want. But I see that for what it is...unproductive BS! This is a tragedy and we are doing the best we can to deal with an event that's simply unimaginable and unprecedented in scope. As such, we aren't going to be able to do everything we'd like immediately, though we wish we could. You're only kidding youself if you think we can. We probably have 1 million or more stuck in and around the New Orleans area alone. Think of the millions of others stuck in other areas like Slidell, Gulfport, Biloxi and Mobile and the other towns in LA, MS, AL, etc. Then think of just how much men and material it would take to bring a single meal to just a few million people. Think about that. Then maybe you can realize just what we are up against and how difficult this is to deal with. Then maybe you'll take your criticism and turn it to something else. It's easy to sit and criticize. It's a different matter for those ACTUALLY having to deal with this. That's my advice to all those sitting on their ass and complaining about this being "too slow".

In short, hell no FEMA officials should not be fired. It's not their fault that this is the biggest disaster to ever hit the United States and is exhausting our resources. Nor is it Bush's fault. Nor is it anyone's fault. No amount of planning could have changed that fact. It's natural disaster people! This is not a picnic and the solutions are not easy!
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Again, this is a very emotional situation. It hurts to see people dying and suffering in deplorable conditions. But emotion doesn't change the complexities or make it easier to do what must be done. There are some things that simply have to be tackled before you can help people on such a large scale.

This is truly a desperate situation. People must understand that these rescuers are doing everything possible to help. If they could provide food, shelter and transport to all of these people immediately, then they'd do it. If the goverment could have made it happen overnight, they'd have done it. But the realities on the ground there aren't like that and they have a limited amount of resources to work with. So again, they are trying to make the best of a desperate situation in which there are no easy fixes or solutions.

Let me add, in the 1991 and 2003 Persian Gulf Wars, we brought in 500,000 and 250,000 troops, respectfully. Now think of all the support it required to get them there and sustain them. In each case, it took nearly every available transport aircraft and ship we had in our inventory. And this required several months to get into place. Plus, in those cases, there was ample time to plan ahead of time and wasn't having to be hastily put together like in this situation. Now consider that we are trying to supply and support an even greater number of people, scattered over a large area, in areas that are hard to get into and in the span of just a few days, not months. That should help understand the magnitude of this situation and just how difficult the task is.

Now what the hell more could any reasonable person expect these people to do under these circumstances?

I've noticed that when something bad happens, people always need something to blame. I've noticed in this thread that many of the same people who are tossing out blame are doing so based on their political preferences. Democrats are blaming Bush. Republicans are blaming the New Orleans mayor. Can you people put aside your freaking political bitterness just long enough to try to help people? Or is that an impossible request? People, this isn't a political issue. It wasn't Bush's fault that the hurricane hit. It wasn't the mayor's fault the hurricane hit. But they are stuck in the very difficult, trying and logistically enormous task of providing relief to the victims. So instead of bitching and tossing around blame, why don't we instead try to work together and get what we need accomplished? This isn't just a tragedy that requires government help. This is a tragedy that requires us ALL to help. So stop your bitching and whining and let's get to work to make it happen. I assure you that will have a far more positive effect.

-George
 
No way does the government get a pass on this. Four days after the disaster and no serious federal presence in an obvious disaster area, no airdrops of food and water. As Soledad O'Brien reminded people on CNN, "In Banda Aceh, in Indonesia, they got food dropped two days after the tsunami struck." We can't do the same in our own country?

I bet we'd be hearing a different tune from some people if this happened in your own backyard. If it was your grandmother sitting out there in the humid summer swelter with no food and water, some people wouldn't be so quick to defend the actions of incompetent criminals like Chertoff. Have you watched his press conferences?? He acts like somebody just woke him up from a freaking bender.

All this after FEMA had known for decades that a hurricane-induced flood in New Orleans would be one of the biggest catastrophes in US history. In fact, I found out tonight that their most recent simulation of a New Orleans flood DID account for potential lawlessness, looting, and gang violence. All this after LSU hurricane experts warned the Corps of Engineers about serious defects with the levee. All this after the Times-Picayune ran a huge story in 2003 accurately predicting the number of people who would be stranded on rooftops waiting for food and water.

Yet four days after the hurricane, and they couldn't even secure two facilities: the Superdome and the Convention Center. Didn't even KNOW that there were 15,000 people at the Convention Center until CNN showed it on television. As late as tonight, thousands of people waiting for rescue in the southern parishes haven't seen any FEMA presence at all.

Hundreds of people died who didn't have to die. That number will climb. Tens of thousands suffered infinitely more than they had to suffer. No sir, no free passes this time. Not for Democrats who bear responsibilty, and not for Republicans who bear responsibliity. They are all getting paid a lot of freaking money to make sure things like this can't happen here, and they failed utterly.

This is why I was calling for complete miiltary control of this several days ago. It's clear the civilians who were supposed to take charge are completely out of their league. I trusted the military to not fall to pieces under crisis. And now that they're in charge, things are improving by the hour.

It's also apparent from the posts yesterday that certain radio hosts and other pro-government media outlets went to work defending their bosses and finding a fall-guy. What an easy target in Mayor Ray Nagin, hysterical and broken after five days of anarchy. But I think the outrage at our inability to save our own people on our own soil cuts across partly lines, and the fanatical apologists better get out of the way when the appropriate time for reckoning comes.
 
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