Priorities people....

[Danny Neal]

I couldn't decide where to stick this post since it does pertain to chasing, but also could be used as an educational example...

I will post a blurb from my blog on here about an incident I learned about recently and I feel needs to be addressed.. http://nrnilstormchaser.blogspot.com/2011/04/priorities-people.html

I am not trying to be the chaser police here, but I feel I must take a minute to talk about this.... I am friends with a several NWS mets on facebook. I learn a lot from them and have even grown a friendship with some of them. Well one of these mets I have talked to for a few years now, posted something that pretty much embarrassed me. He posted a link to a tornado filmed in Wisconsin last Sunday and made a comment that made me want to make like an ostrich and bury my head in the sand. I won't name anyone's names or the forecasters name or those who commented but this comment should never be uttered by an NWS met....

"The Arkdale tornado, which wasn't called into our office by these chasers. I'd like to think that I wouldn't yell like a school girl when I'd see a tornado like this."

The whole time this tornado was never called into their office... were there attempts made? Maybe a data hole? Perhaps they did call 911? I don't know, but the fact is the NWS never received notification of this tornado and (I assume) just learned of it through this video through a known streaming agency. If that wasn't bad enough a couple more mets expressed their displeasure with chasers in general..

"I feel bad for saying this but Ive grown to dislike most stormchasers in recent years because their #1 goal isnt to observe and help people but rather to get the damned thing on video. Just my $0.02...in a generalizing sort of way."

and

"After surveying one long track tornado, of which we got one report of a farm damaged due to a tornado (path length ~15 miles), and then surveying two days later a tornado we never heard about, I feel jaded about chasers (although I have/do). I'll be damned if I photo a tor before it's reported to NWS and local..."

It is getting pretty bad folks.... I hate hyping up the "chasing is doomed" talk since I was a big proponent speaking against it. However, if chasers continue to go out and get video of tornadoes and not take the time to dial 911, dial the NWS, or drop an SN icon, then the commonly used excuse "we are out there to save lives" is just a load of BS. I hate when people say they chase to save lives, no you don't. You want to save lives become a firefighter, police officer, paramedic, doctor, etc. Put the damn camera down, pick up a phone, and do the stuff you claim to do. (Not directed at these chasers, just generalizing).

As for myself, I don't use Spotter Network on a chase. I am usually in NWSchat contributing where I can and calling the NWS directly. (I have every plains/midwest office number saved on my phone). I have called 911 more than a few times. I can attest that my goal out there is to get video of severe weather and to enjoy my passion, but I also know when I am the only icon or person around there that it is my duty to call it in. Now I can see if it was a crowded highway full of Law Enforcement, chasers, media, and you don't phone in a report. But in the backwoods of Wisconsin where there are only a handful of chasers? Not a good move, no matter how experienced or good of a chaser you are. Please just remember why we are out here.... if you are out there solely to get extreme video and damage shots then you sure as hell better be calling 911 or the NWS. We don't need our friends at the NWS frowning upon us because we aren't helping with the warning process..

That all being said, I want to applaud ALL the chasers who helped the last few events at the farms and towns that were hit hard. That is how we get our hobby back on the right track. Not only by calling in timely reports, but knowing when to give up the chase and helping out in areas affected by a major event. I have heard through the gravevine that many agencies in Mapleton are EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for the help that chasers provided there. Today the devastating Atoka County tornado was flooded by chasers moments after helping out and giving up the chase. In my mind that is what chasing is all about. Chasers made timely ACCURATE reports and showed up on scene not with cameras in hand but with flashlights and tools. Bravo! All of you out there willing to put yourself in the danger area and the traumatic scene of a tornadoes aftermath have my utmost respect.

Priorities people, I don't believe anyone out there intentionally doesn't report severe weather or the thought doesn't cross their mind, but sometimes we all get caught up in the moment and we need to remember what THE most important thing is outside of our own safety....

I know the names of all the individuals involved, but the point wasn't to call them out or state my displeasure with them. I want to apologize in advance if I come off as preaching or if you feel I am talking down on them. The whole point of this blog was to remember why we are out there and to repeat the Mapleton/Atoka County scene, not the Arkdale one. Please people... remember why we are really out here. Please pick up the phone or submit that report!

 

[Mike Moore]

I think you did a good job making a great point without doing it in a negative way. All chasers from the most conservative to the most "extreme" should simply make the call before continuing with their mission, whatever that mission is.

 

[James Langford]

Thanks for posting this, and I agree. I know that for myself, I often think "Well, there are already a lot of chasers here, so someone else will report it". In the future, I am going to change that and just start reporting what I see regardless.

 

[Keith Hosman]

From an EMA and Skywarn net control standpoint I will state that while Spotternet is a great tool, for me it is faster/easier to give a report to the NWS via NWSChat than it is to use SN. Likewise it is easier for me to take a report via radio than it is for me to take it via SN, because it gives me a chance to ask for further detailed information if needed.

That being said I am not discouraging the use of SN, the most important thing is to make the report any way you can. Where I am located, I am on the fringe of two WFOs, IWX (Northern Indiana) and CLE (Cleveland), and I will often get phone calls from the CLE office to ask what we are seeing on the ground here because once it leaves my county it enters the counties under the CLE coverage area. I will often contact the Skywarn nets in the eastern counties just to let them know what is heading their way (I always let them know that the NWS has been informed so there isn't a dupe report) because they have many mobile spotters and they can redirect them as needed based on information coming in.

 

[Rob H]

Great points, and I have one little tidbit to add about the assumptions. Remember the Deer Trail / Last Chance tornadoes that were on the ground for the longest time, and could be seen for miles and miles? Everyone assumed someone had reported them, and I believe they went unreported for a quite some time. So don't assume someone else has reported it, because I've been in a few situations now where *everyone* makes the same assumption.

SN is a great tool, but if you don't have time, a 10 second phone call is all you need - if you haven't talked to one before, 911 dispatchers dont care to hear about the inflow or anything so it's not an awkward conversation at all. You basically just have to say "I'm a storm chaser/spotter, and there is a tornado on the ground at XYZ" and then they thank you and hang up in most cases.

And yeah, 99% of us aren't out there to save lives, we're out there to see weather. The rest is just being a responsible member of society.

 

[rdale]

From an EMA and Skywarn net control standpoint I will state that while Spotternet is a great tool, for me it is faster/easier to give a report to the NWS via NWSChat than it is to use SN.

Realize though that you only have access to NWSChat because you are a Skywarn NCS. It is not open to all hams/spotters.

 

[Keith Hosman]

Realize though that you only have access to NWSChat because you are a Skywarn NCS. It is not open to all hams/spotters.

True. but even then I'd still be able to send reports in via radio or the spotter hotline which are both faster and easier for me than SN.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I'll even admit having been guilty of this myself, though not via a concerted, deliberate effort by any means. Given the number of chasers on most any storm these days, and the easy access to reporting capabilities, I guess I often find myself assuming that the storm is TOR warned (usually), which means the NWS is aware of it's tornadic capabilities. Given the number of chaser/spotters on most storms, I often just assume that it has been or will be reported in short order. After reading this diatribe, it makes one realize that perhaps we(I) need to take a step back and realize that multiple reports are better than no reports, and of course we all know what happens when you ass-u-me.

 

[Tim Shriver]

One thing that might help is if your using GrLevelx you can get a placefile that will display the local WFOs phone number. Many chasers are not hams and use the cell phone.
Sometimes getting through to the 911 operator and being sure the report is not "modified" by the time it reaches the local WFO is always a concern.

Here is a link to that placefile: http://www.midwestsstrc.org/downloads/nws800numbers.txt

But using the 1-800 also has its issues, like being busy for 30 minutes at a time during an outbreak. So having and making use of all the tools available for submitting a report is vital.

In the end it is a matter of priorities that a person has. To help with this, folks need to think, "What if someone in my family was in the path of the tornado I am filming?"
Would you not do all you could to warn them? If not, then help is available for this.

Danny's posts was well said and I hope it is taken in the light the author intended.

Tim

 

[James Langford]

Spotter Network also displays the 1-800 number to the local WFO. I don't believe this requires an active data connection either, just a GPS location.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

Great points, and I have one little tidbit to add about the assumptions. Remember the Deer Trail / Last Chance tornadoes that were on the ground for the longest time, and could be seen for miles and miles? Everyone assumed someone had reported them, and I believe they went unreported for a quite some time. So don't assume someone else has reported it, because I've been in a few situations now where *everyone* makes the same assumption.

Sorry, have to say this is a bad example for chasers not reporting tornadoes (assume you're talking about June 10, 2010???). I was on the phone almost as soon as they touched, but the line to the NWS in Boulder was busy. Also, by the time I cleared up some connection issues, my reports were on SN too, but my report was redundant at that point because someone else by then had reported them. If anything, there were reports of the tornadoes going out within minutes (if not seconds), which could at most be due to the fact it takes a few seconds to find/punch in a phone number or write up a report (either way not that bad). Perhaps my memory is faulty, or we're talking about the wrong day?

Side note, I wonder how many offices now use/adopted SN? I wouldn't be surprised if El Paso NWS (which I live near) uses or doesn't use spotter network.

 

[rdale]

All offices get SN reports through the NWSChat room. Plus any of them that use this new technology called "radar viewing" get them on their GR2AE display.

 

[Rob H]

Sorry, have to say this is a bad example for chasers not reporting tornadoes (assume you're talking about June 10, 2010???). I was on the phone almost as soon as they touched, but the line to the NWS in Boulder was busy. Also, by the time I cleared up some connection issues, my reports were on SN too, but my report was redundant at that point because someone else by then had reported them. If anything, there were reports of the tornadoes going out within minutes (if not seconds), which could at most be due to the fact it takes a few seconds to find/punch in a phone number or write up a report (either way not that bad). Perhaps my memory is faulty, or we're talking about the wrong day?

Side note, I wonder how many offices now use/adopted SN? I wouldn't be surprised if El Paso NWS (which I live near) uses or doesn't use spotter network.

Yes, I was thinking of 6/10/10. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember there being 10 minutes or so where one of the two tornadoes did not have any SN or LSRs, and people were surprised since V2 was also on the storm. I was chastised by someone (and rightfully so) for not reporting and assuming others had reported, so that's why the date sticks out in my mind. I'm not claiming that everyone on that storm was irresponsible, just that it was a situation where people were making assumptions. Who knows, maybe there were glitches, or maybe it was only five minutes. It sticks out in my mind, because I could have called it in right away and I did not.

 

[Dean Baron]

I'll even admit having been guilty of this myself, though not via a concerted, deliberate effort by any means. Given the number of chasers on most any storm these days, and the easy access to reporting capabilities, I guess I often find myself assuming that the storm is TOR warned (usually), which means the NWS is aware of it's tornadic capabilities. Given the number of chaser/spotters on most storms, I often just assume that it has been or will be reported in short order. After reading this diatribe, it makes one realize that perhaps we(I) need to take a step back and realize that multiple reports are better than no reports, and of course we all know what happens when you ass-u-me.

This is the way I am too. The few tornadoes I have seen I was not the first and only person to observe it. The ones I saw last year I knew there were people in better position than I was to give more info about the tornado. I usually chase alone (that may change this year with the price of gas) and WILL NOT attempt to create a report unless I am stopped on the side of a road. At the same time, I will not stop on the side of the road with just a very distant view of a tornado just to make a report, then try to get a better view. When I am stopped and happy with my position, then I will make a report via SN. I guess I really disagree with what the met said in what Danny posted. I agree a lot of us probably put footage ahead of reporting, but it's not like we never report it at all.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I agree that with the many ways we have available to report these days, it's not difficult to do so even among video and photography tasks. I have the local WFO numbers in my phone for a call that takes all of 30 seconds. That said, until the NWS, NOAA or public agencies start helping with chasers' funding (especially now with $4 gas prices) there is little room for any agency or office to complain about the lack of help from a chaser. Most police, fire and EMS people don't do it all for free AND pay their own way for equipment and gas. If there is a mission-critical public safety value in anything a chaser does, money should be put where the offical mouths are. Most chasers don't make profit on video even with a few good sales - breaking even on a season is near impossible. So the money-making criticism card isn't one to play for most. Just a thought.

 

[Greg Higgins]

As a side note, at last years and some of this years SkyWarn classes, our local mets are DISCOURAGING people from calling 911 as they feel that is an inapproapriate use of the 911 system, and they (NWS) sometimes don't get the information.

 

[Mark Manchester]

As a side note, at last years and some of this years SkyWarn classes, our local mets are DISCOURAGING people from calling 911 as they feel that is an inapproapriate use of the 911 system, and they (NWS) sometimes don't get the information.

That may be the case in some areas, but I can assure you that as a 911 and Emergency Management supervisor, we welcome ANY 911 call regarding a tornado or funnel cloud, as it's obviously a serious, immediate threat to life and property.

 

[Jeff Duda]

On April 9th in NW IA, I made several attempts to either send in reports via SN or call a WFO directly, but never once could I get through or even get a connection. With all of the chasers pinging the cell towers and saturating the bandwidth, I couldn't make a single report. I've found this to be the case on several chases since I upgraded my phone last year. Granted, all of these days were those in which 50 chasers were on SN on the same cell, so having a tornado reported wasn't really an issue.

 

[Keith Hosman]

That may be the case in some areas, but I can assure you that as a 911 and Emergency Management supervisor, we welcome ANY 911 call regarding a tornado or funnel cloud, as it's obviously a serious, immediate threat to life and property.

I agree with this, at least as far as my county, because it let's us know where we need to send our emergency response. Hell I don't have a problem with my spotters calling me directly on the phone, be it my land line or cell.

 

[Jarrod Cook]

Regarding NWSchat and SN...I also monitor NWSchat sometimes when out, especially when in my local NWS area, but I'd still try and submit a report via SN as a first priority (if I'm not going to call). SN reports are more likely to get the meteorologist's attention since it's so integrated into their AWIPS system. If it's busy they may not be glued to the chat room. Not to mention, plopping an SN icon down helps others know what is going on (assuming it's a trustworthy report). And as others have said, the more reports the better. It's just like everything else, if you assume someone has already done something, they probably haven't. If there were multiple SN reports near a storm, that's different, but if there is one, it still may not hurt...increases confidence.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Regarding NWSchat and SN...I also monitor NWSchat sometimes when out, especially when in my local NWS area, but I'd still try and submit a report via SN as a first priority (if I'm not going to call). SN reports are more likely to get the meteorologist's attention since it's so integrated into their AWIPS system..

I know SN comes in to NWSChat, but in what way is it " integrated into their AWIPS system"?

I know last fall, when I emailed with the NWS Liaison for SN that around 40 offices were online with the SN system
in the manner I think your referring too.

But all, I think, get SN via NWSChat. I also see the offices monitoring NWSChat much, if not all the time
during an event. They can get reports from not only SN, but Emergency Management, media and some spotter groups.

Tim

 

[Jayson Prentice]

Even if there are numerous other SN reports from the storm it still helps out to drop another one... Say you are a few minutes later, you can let them know that it is still on the ground and perhaps provide an update on the location of the tornado. The more reports there are the better idea the guy/gal issuing the warnings will have as to where the tornado is and what it is doing...

 

[Jarrod Cook]

I know SN comes in to NWSChat, but in what way is it " integrated into their AWIPS system"?

I know last fall, when I emailed with the NWS Liaison for SN that around 40 offices were online with the SN system
in the manner I think your referring too.

But all, I think, get SN via NWSChat. I also see the offices monitoring NWSChat much, if not all the time
during an event. They can get reports from not only SN, but Emergency Management, media and some spotter groups.

Tim

Yes, SN reports do get injected into the chat rooms, but that's just a convenience. Reports from SN pop up on their workstations instantly, just like an eSpotter report would. That's what I'm referring to. Tyler or someone could explain in more detail, but that's the gist of it.

 

[Matt Hunt]

I agree that with the many ways we have available to report these days, it's not difficult to do so even among video and photography tasks. I have the local WFO numbers in my phone for a call that takes all of 30 seconds. That said, until the NWS, NOAA or public agencies start helping with chasers' funding (especially now with $4 gas prices) there is little room for any agency or office to complain about the lack of help from a chaser. Most police, fire and EMS people don't do it all for free AND pay their own way for equipment and gas. If there is a mission-critical public safety value in anything a chaser does, money should be put where the offical mouths are. Most chasers don't make profit on video even with a few good sales - breaking even on a season is near impossible. So the money-making criticism card isn't one to play for most. Just a thought.

This. It is a free country, and if people want to go out and look at a storm for the sole purpose of observing, photographing, or videographing, then they are free to do that. Spotters are VOLUNTEERS. It's a bit ridiculous IMO for these NWS mets to complain about volunteers, or lack thereof. Personally, I will call in and report what I see, especially if the storm is heading towards a populated area, but I'm not mad at anyone for being out there on the public roads at their free will to take pictures and video. Everyone chases/spots for different reasons.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Yes, SN reports do get injected into the chat rooms, but that's just a convenience. Reports from SN pop up on their workstations instantly, just like an eSpotter report would. That's what I'm referring to. Tyler or someone could explain in more detail, but that's the gist of it.

Like I said, when I last check, last fall, 40 WFOs were on board with SN. Thus the move to NWSChat for SN.
I know our local WFO does not have them pop up anywhere. Just in NWSChat.
I thought there was an place on the SN website that showed what WFOs were participating?

Tim