Oklahoma Weather Tracking Licensure Legislation

[Warren Faidley]

These are good and logical arguments, but I suggest everyone take a look or re-look at the last committee meeting. It passed 8-0 with one of the legislators complimenting Sen. Mann for his revised version. Until someone is able to reach one of the members of the up coming appropriations committee and the general public, this is almost a lost cause. Amazingly, I am not aware of a single legislator speaking with non-TV chasers for their opinion.

We are also approaching the storm season. I personally believe they are going to use this storm season to push their cause by blaming chaser-related traffic jams for some type of delayed reporting, etc. We need to watch news crews like hawks and report (film) every single reckless event to the OHP so they have a record. If TV News crews want special privileges, then they are going to have to pay the price.

I find it amazing that there are only 5-6 of us here on ST who are discussing this topic on a regular basis. Where the hell is everyone else? They must think they are magically getting a license.

 

[Randy Zipser]

Exactly! But, as Randy correctly notes, the "winning fight" -- from the point of view of legislators in Oklahoma -- is to support OU and in-state chasers, especially if palms are being greased either literally or figuratively. This was the point of my long piece (above).

It likely that there's so way those of us from out-of-state can win this. Any effective opposition would have to come from someone or something within Oklahoma who can grease palms in a superior way.

From the Oklahoma legislators point of view, in-state good (they pay taxes, buy them good whiskey and cigars) and
Ryan Hall + the rest of us = bad.

There actually already is professional advocacy help in Oklahoma. There are two professional advocacy groups right in the OKC area:
Oklahoma Society of Professional Advocates, based in Edmond. Their URL is: Oklahoma Society of Professional Advocates
and National Association of State Lobbyists (NASL) in OKC. Their URL is: Oklahoma | National Association of State Lobbyists

The NASL is specifically tailored to fight OK state governmental issues. I'm sure they act on a fee-paid basis, but it might be worthwhile for one or more of ST's OK-resident posters to check into these options and determine what it might cost to hire an in-state advocate to argue our opposition viewpoints. These people do this for a living and will get results! If the cost is not too high, perhaps a one-time, voluntary fund could be organized and set up to cover the cost if enough ST posters chip-in. Just a thought...

 

[Jeff Smith]

I am working on a letter to send to my state rep and senator. I will compile reasonings for our objections and hit heavily on the reporting/public safety factor and will post it here when completed to use as a template for others if they desire.

 

[Warren Faidley]

There actually already is professional advocacy help in Oklahoma. There are two professional advocacy groups right in the OKC area:
Oklahoma Society of Professional Advocates, based in Edmond. Their URL is: Oklahoma Society of Professional Advocates
and National Association of State Lobbyists (NASL) in OKC. Their URL is: Oklahoma | National Association of State Lobbyists

The NASL is specifically tailored to fight OK state governmental issues. I'm sure they act on a fee-paid basis, but it might be worthwhile for one or more of ST's OK-resident posters to check into these options and determine what it might cost to hire an in-state advocate to argue our opposition viewpoints. These people do this for a living and will get results! If the cost is not too high, perhaps a one-time, voluntary fund could be organized and set up to cover the cost if enough ST posters chip-in. Just a thought...

Guys like Ryan Hall and RT could fund this without any problems.

 

[Warren Faidley]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894073897315963314

 

[Jeff Smith]

Here is the email I sent to my state rep and senator. I am sure it could have been worded better, but hopefully they will get the meaning.

Good morning,

I am writing to you today to state my opinion on SB #158 and HB #2426 (storm chasing bills). I am a storm chaser, storm spotter, and volunteer Assistant Emergency Coordinator for a group called ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services).

As I understand both bills, they seem to be intended to alleviate congestion on severe weather days. As we all know, Oklahoma gets its fair share of severe weather. When this occurs, we get an influx of storm chasers from all over. This creates congestion on the roads. These bills, in my opinion, while on the surface have well intentions, will have potential dire consequences if passed into law. Let me explain from my own experience chasing Oklahoma storms for the past 30 plus years.

After reading and re-reading these bills, it seems like it is intended to license media chasers (limited to Television media and certain Oklahoma Universities) to run with police style lights (red/blues in HB2426 and green/white in SB158) during a “significant weather event”. Who determines “significant weather event”? It seems that this bill would define that in itself, but who has authority to close roads/limit public access to roads and potential escape routes? Law Enforcement. Is Law Enforcement prepared to do this on an even greater scale than they currently do? How large of an area will they close to the public? I know they typically attend a severe weather spotting class occasionally, but do they have the invaluable experience that chasers/spotters have? As a spotter/chaser, keeping viable escape routes in mind is paramount to one’s safety and if such roads are blocked, whomever has deemed such road as closed is putting people in harm’s way. (I have personally experienced this).

This will also enable and encourage additional reckless behavior and driving habits that certain TV chasers with wrapped vehicle displaying the TV station have historically displayed in the past. These folks are all over the internet with their driving dangerous driving shenanigans. I have personally experienced this as well.

Now let’s look at the public safety aspect as related to severe weather warnings. Yes, people watch TV during bad weather. But in most cases, before TV goes to wall-to-wall coverage, a tornado warning must be issued. Let me explain how warnings work-specifically a tornado warning. The National Weather Service has the responsibility to issue a tornado warning, not TV meteorologists. So how does the NWS arrive at a decision to warn a particular storm? They use their radar technology complimented with their training as well as storm spotters/chasers in the process of issuing tornado warnings. More often than not, these spotters and chasers are not TV chasers but volunteers. According to either of these bills, this could potentially eliminate the invaluable storm spotters and could make warning decisions more difficult and less timely. This could be devastating to public safety in an already challenging situation by hindering the NWS ability to issue warnings. These spotters are often volunteers and ham radio operators as well and they communicate valuable storm ingredients that cannot be seen on radar directly to the NWS via ham radio or other means. Said spotters could be limited by law enforcement closing roads, and this also could potentially put them in harm’s way by closing escape routes.

Neither of these bills should be necessary and are potentially detrimental to the NWS warning process, potential for putting spotters and other chasers in harm’s way, and I see potential for more reckless and dangerous driving behavior by “licensed media chasers”.

I understand these bills are being presented by and lobbied for by TV stations. They tout they are saving lives by having these chasers out there. I know several of these chasers, and this is simply a ploy in order to get a competitive edge to “get the shot” for their TV station and really will have detrimental consequences in warning decisions and storm reporting.

Thank you for your time and please feel free to contact me for further discussion.

Sincerely,
Jeff Smith
ARES AEC volunteer Rogers County Oklahoma

 

[Warren Faidley]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894090012985360585

 

[Randy Zipser]

Here is the email I sent to my state rep and senator. I am sure it could have been worded better, but hopefully they will get the meaning.

Good morning,

I am writing to you today to state my opinion on SB #158 and HB #2426 (storm chasing bills). I am a storm chaser, storm spotter, and volunteer Assistant Emergency Coordinator for a group called ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services).

As I understand both bills, they seem to be intended to alleviate congestion on severe weather days. As we all know, Oklahoma gets its fair share of severe weather. When this occurs, we get an influx of storm chasers from all over. This creates congestion on the roads. These bills, in my opinion, while on the surface have well intentions, will have potential dire consequences if passed into law. Let me explain from my own experience chasing Oklahoma storms for the past 30 plus years.

After reading and re-reading these bills, it seems like it is intended to license media chasers (limited to Television media and certain Oklahoma Universities) to run with police style lights (red/blues in HB2426 and green/white in SB158) during a “significant weather event”. Who determines “significant weather event”? It seems that this bill would define that in itself, but who has authority to close roads/limit public access to roads and potential escape routes? Law Enforcement. Is Law Enforcement prepared to do this on an even greater scale than they currently do? How large of an area will they close to the public? I know they typically attend a severe weather spotting class occasionally, but do they have the invaluable experience that chasers/spotters have? As a spotter/chaser, keeping viable escape routes in mind is paramount to one’s safety and if such roads are blocked, whomever has deemed such road as closed is putting people in harm’s way. (I have personally experienced this).

This will also enable and encourage additional reckless behavior and driving habits that certain TV chasers with wrapped vehicle displaying the TV station have historically displayed in the past. These folks are all over the internet with their driving dangerous driving shenanigans. I have personally experienced this as well.

Now let’s look at the public safety aspect as related to severe weather warnings. Yes, people watch TV during bad weather. But in most cases, before TV goes to wall-to-wall coverage, a tornado warning must be issued. Let me explain how warnings work-specifically a tornado warning. The National Weather Service has the responsibility to issue a tornado warning, not TV meteorologists. So how does the NWS arrive at a decision to warn a particular storm? They use their radar technology complimented with their training as well as storm spotters/chasers in the process of issuing tornado warnings. More often than not, these spotters and chasers are not TV chasers but volunteers. According to either of these bills, this could potentially eliminate the invaluable storm spotters and could make warning decisions more difficult and less timely. This could be devastating to public safety in an already challenging situation by hindering the NWS ability to issue warnings. These spotters are often volunteers and ham radio operators as well and they communicate valuable storm ingredients that cannot be seen on radar directly to the NWS via ham radio or other means. Said spotters could be limited by law enforcement closing roads, and this also could potentially put them in harm’s way by closing escape routes.

Neither of these bills should be necessary and are potentially detrimental to the NWS warning process, potential for putting spotters and other chasers in harm’s way, and I see potential for more reckless and dangerous driving behavior by “licensed media chasers”.

I understand these bills are being presented by and lobbied for by TV stations. They tout they are saving lives by having these chasers out there. I know several of these chasers, and this is simply a ploy in order to get a competitive edge to “get the shot” for their TV station and really will have detrimental consequences in warning decisions and storm reporting.

Thank you for your time and please feel free to contact me for further discussion.

Sincerely,
Jeff Smith
ARES AEC volunteer Rogers County Oklahoma

Well said, Jeff. Let's hope your district's state senator and representative "take to heart" your intelligent comments! Please send this letter to any other of your volunteer peers in your surrounding counties, with a suggestion to do the same with counties surrounding them...until most, if not all, of the Oklahoma legislature is informed about your concerns. This could "catch fire" and serve as the start of a grass-roots campaign!

 

[Jeff Smith]

Well said, Jeff. Let's hope your district's state senator and representative "take to heart" your intelligent comments! Please send this letter to any other of your volunteer peers in your surrounding counties, with a suggestion to do the same with counties surrounding them...until most, if not all, of the Oklahoma legislature is informed about your concerns. This could "catch fire" and serve as the start of a grass-roots campaign!

Thank you Randy!! Already heard back from my state senator saying she's "not a fan". Fingers crossed!!

 

[Warren Faidley]

Thanks Jeff, when I hear that a legislator is "not a fan," it does my heart good. !!!!!!!!!

 

[Dave C]

Sad to read through some of the posts that summarize well what we all kind of know: many legislators and officials are there for the wrong reasons and enjoy accruing money, wealth, or control over all else. They lead with ego or agenda even if they are imbeciles, to make money or lord over others, rather than consdider the public. They pursued public service for themselves, not the public. The dumbest and angriest voice is often the loudest. Narcissists and abusers (= many politicians) often think they are in the right in their twisted heads, and there is a reason psychos get elected often. Bad decisions for the public have been made all over the nation for tenant rights, right to repair, consumer protection, legalizing hard drugs, giving squatters rights, and a long list of others. History shows that when one body of government snakes gets a new bad idea, the next state over starts in on the same bad path.

To get specifically back on topic some key points come to mind after all I have learned in the thread to date:

1. Conflict of interest. Oklahoma house and senate need to understand that this bill gives media/researchers with a clear conflict of interest (big money and more control) emergency powers to push their Oklahoma public around with their code 3 shenanigans. These media and research chasers have had the most fatalities and incidents BY FAR in the history of chasing, and their motivations are fame, money, grants, prestige, and control -plain and simple. None of them will care much about the public peasants they have legislatively risen above on storm day. Sure, researchers have generally altruistic goals mixed into the rest of their goals, but academia too has its share of terrible biases and behavior and should not be given special treatment without guidance from real first responders when coming into contact with public safety.
2. Obvious Agenda is Not Public Benefit. Any representative associated with this bill is showing their true colors - suppoort big money and ignoring public safety. If the real bill is a combination of eliminating chasing hordes without having to say those words, than just write a bill saying so. Dishonest will be knocked down in court, and the hordes can be well argued to be overall better than worse for what little incidents they cause but ground truth they ensure.
3. Illegal Warning Authority? The bill gives alert/waning authority that as far as I can tell are legally only given to national agencies through their charters (NOAA, FEMA, etc). In most states this would be illegal- how can Oklahoma supersede this federal authority? Not to be political because I am not a partisan for any crap party or person around - I mostly hate them all- but how is that alert allowance for a TV station much different than sharpie gate? The TV station may want to serve the public but is far too heavily influenced by money and ratings, where NWS has none of that pressure. Why should we listen to ego or money driven people about a weather event or disaster instead of weather nerds who sought a public service career and have no financial motivation to warn in certain ways? ONLY approved government agencies related to safety or weather should be issuing and enforcing any alerts, period, and we can all hope they are staffed by level headed true public servants.
4. Public Injury/Death Liability. If this passes, I wonder what happens when someone thinks they are safely behind a cop in a rain shaft trying to make their way home but actually follow some moron TV chaser into a tornado or hail core? If someone is dying under rubble, are these media chasers required to help with their new emergeny status? Or like always will they prioritize money? Who is at fault for damage, injury, or death to the public? If someone is trying to escape and go the other way from a bad situation but is caught in it yielding to a line of code 3 idiots from media, who is liable? Is it worth a life? Ten? Lost property that could have been avoided? You know the media has their giant policies and lawyers because THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT PEOPLE, ONLY MONEY AND POWER. Again, anyone supporting this insane bill is showing their colors, and THAT message needs to make it to local media, along with very logical basic questions and points we are all making. Corrupt lawmakers will only yield their actions when they are spotted and exposed. Bad optics is their only achilles.
5. First Responder Workload Increase. LEOs will be trying to keep people safe, but be time burneded letting these idiots around road blocks.
6. Illegal Responder Authority? Code 3 response EVERYWHERE ELSE is reserved for life endangered. Not property, not some TV station budget. This would be the first of its kind in the nation I have heard, and I would be surprise if some of OKs own laws don't conflict with this. While some road patrols and equipment are allowed colored lights in some states, I have NEVER seen code 3 response permission given to anyone but REAL first responders who have no conflict of interest and one mission under code 3 - save lives.
7. Dishonest Intent. If this bill was targeted at reducing problems from chaser hordes, it should be doing something like imposing large fines in prosimity to emergency situations for stupod driving or running stop signs. As it is, this will clearly make things less safe for everyone.
8. Media failure to Compete. We all know this is about mass media not able to compete with all the little cameras and experienced chasers. They want their money and yours too. They want control and prestige back. You cannot go back, time marches on. Mass media needs to innovate.

I sincerely hope some of you with better contacts than I can get some basic points in front of the public via any media possible to show how corrupt and stupid this bill is. If it passes, other states are nearly guaranteed to quickly follow. History and the snake nature of politicians shows us that.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Really good points, some I had not thought of. With 60+ emergency vehicles, some driving like complete imbeciles, I don't think it will take long for someone to be killed or injured. As my (attorney) wife points out, the liability requirement of only $1 million is a joke. It should be $5 million+ in the event channel X kills a family or hits a school bus. I believe it's purposely low so some of the "outside" chasers promised licenses for their support or silence can afford the insurance. Once you get over $1 million then the policies become a lot more complex and demanding. I cannot imagine any underwriter insuring Oklahoma news stations or traitorous chasers given their past history.

As for legal ramifications, I'm told privately that neither the Rep. or the Sen. pushing this bill cares. They apparently have attorneys in their meetings to cross check constitutional issues and liability. They are hell bent on passing this bill no matter what, which is naturally curious. Any challenge could take years and a lot of money. If station X does indeed kill a family, then I would expect the Governor to halt the law and the legislators will be run out of town like Frankenstein.

 

[Brett Roberts]

Been really busy the past couple weeks and unable to keep up with this play-by-play. But based on a cursory reading of what I've missed, it seems quite likely I was naive and wrong when I originally opined that the bill sponsors are merely misinformed and need a fuller understanding of the chasing world.

Rather, it looks more and more likely that there's, at minimum, some degree of "soft corruption" or backroom dealing. As Warren correctly points out, this is extremely worrying, since it means the bar for us to actually prevent passage is extremely high -- perhaps impossibly so. Statistics, logic, and calm persuasion are unlikely to suffice, unless those forms of persuasion succeed with Oklahoma constituents to such an extent that state reps are worried about the next election (seems hard to imagine on this issue).

What a time to be alive. It's comically embarrassing for a state when its local teevee weather personalities are high enough on the state economic totem poll to pull political puppet strings this way, assuming our current suspicious are accurate.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I've been told there is also heavy lobbying by OU researchers. They are not mentioned much, but they will also get the professional license. This means researchers outside OK are screwed. I've always thought they were really smart people, but apparently no so much.

 

[gdlewen]

SB158 goes next to the OK Senate Appropriations Committee, but when it will be heard is uncertain. That committee meets this coming Wednesday but SB158 is currently not on the agenda:

Appropriations | Oklahoma Senate

oksenate.gov

However, the agendas are subject to change even up to the last moment, and in fact if you watched the beginning of last week's Senate Retirement and Government Resources Committee they were re-shuffling the order of bills like a deck of cards. (Nothing wrong with that, but it makes it hard to anticipate what's coming.)

I will try to give ST a heads up if SB158 appears on the Appropriations agenda but the best bet is for those interested to keep checking the link above.

Oh yes--one more thing--there are several Appropriations Sub-Select Committees for which no agendas have been posted. I am pretty sure SB158 is going to any of these, but I will try to find out.