• After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.

    I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.

    For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.

    From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.

    Sincerely, Jeff D.

Oklahoma Weather Tracking Licensure Legislation

Hi Randy, we discussed this and part of the problem are the "too many amateur chasers" argument by the TV stations. "Amateur" meaning you, me, and everyone not an OU researcher or TV station crew. No one else.

The economic points might just feed into their argument, given its only a few days a year. My understanding is that SB158 is only the "first step" in reducing the number of "amateurs on the road. We believe the second step would be to declare emergencies on big days to only allow "FCC-licensed TV crews" on roads, or some other tricky legal maneuver.

The best argument remains the dangers of allowing civilians to run code-3. With the OHP now rejecting the bill, we are in a much better position than a week ago. My suggestion to adopt the California "media access" code is gaining popularity and hopefully offers a solution.
It's been a long time since we've communicated, Warren...great to hear from you again! I agree with your overall argument above, although you may be underestimating the economic impact due to the sheer number of "amateur" storm chasers (like you and me...although we both know how ridiculous that description is!) coming to Oklahoma, even if it's "just for a few days out of the year." Nevertheless, that's neither here-nor-there; this bill is otherwise so riddled with flaws of many types, such as have already been discussed ad-nauseum on this thread. However, I very much agree with your excellent suggestion of using a system like the California "media access" code, which if implemented in all states prone to natural disasters, would make any media tracking or licensure law unnecessary and obsolete. Bottom line: the "us" (TV media, academia) versus "them" (all the rest of us storm chasers) mentality is absurd, and the politicians should be prudent enough not to pass a new law based on such nonsense.
 
I think what you might see attempted is similar to what we already see with hurricanes. That is, declare an emergency or worse, a curfew, inside of SPC moderate or high risks/tornado watches. That way, you compel the public to stay home and make it easier for law enforcement to corral the remaining chasers on the road.
I don't know how else to view the language. Sure it is unlikely for a lot of reasons, but the language permits it as an outcome so you have to consider it. If it is an undesired outcome you should change the language to prevent it.
 
Hi Randy, we discussed this and part of the problem are the "too many amateur chasers" argument by the TV stations. "Amateur" meaning you, me, and everyone not an OU researcher or TV station crew. No one else.

The economic points might just feed into their argument, given its only a few days a year. My understanding is that SB158 is only the "first step" in reducing the number of "amateurs on the road. We believe the second step would be to declare emergencies on big days to only allow "FCC-licensed TV crews" on roads, or some other tricky legal maneuver.

The best argument remains the dangers of allowing civilians to run code-3. With the OHP now rejecting the bill, we are in a much better position than a week ago. My suggestion to adopt the California "media access" code is gaining popularity and hopefully offers a solution.
Dollars to Donuts, they will include the volunteer NWS/SkyWarn/county OEM local and regional stormspotters as "amateurs", regardless of training or experience, just because they are unpaid. I went through similar as a volunteer firefighter/EMT in NJ back in the late 70's and early 80's. Same training standards, with weekly, and more involved monthly drills to keep our skills sharp (yes it became a lifestyle) we were somehow inferior because we didn't get paid. It became somewhat moot when day-job demands cut back on people's time for volunteer activities (especially daytime responders, the days of leaving the job for civic duties was mostly over), and towns began to hire full-time to supplement daytime staffing, then nighttime as well.
 
Dollars to Donuts, they will include the volunteer NWS/SkyWarn/county OEM local and regional stormspotters as "amateurs", regardless of training or experience, just because they are unpaid. I went through similar as a volunteer firefighter/EMT in NJ back in the late 70's and early 80's. Same training standards, with weekly, and more involved monthly drills to keep our skills sharp (yes it became a lifestyle) we were somehow inferior because we didn't get paid. It became somewhat moot when day-job demands cut back on people's time for volunteer activities (especially daytime responders, the days of leaving the job for civic duties was mostly over), and towns began to hire full-time to supplement daytime staffing, then nighttime as well.
I appreciate your comments, Ken. You are right. All of those "unpaid" volunteer people that you mention above would not have any economic impact on the state's coffers if they are lumped in with the "out-of-state chasers" only that I was defining as "amateurs." I guess a label like "amateur" can be defined anyway one wants to favor one's desired agenda. Thanks for the clarification.
 
I think the money contributed to the Oklahoma economy by chasers is substantial. Yes, it is only a limited number of days, but that is also true of any given event designed to pull in tourists. Just a little more unpredictable as to time and place with chasers. But annually, a substantial amount. I will confidently say that I have probably spent more money per photogenic tornado in Oklahoma than in pretty much any of the other states I chase in, LOL!
 
Apologies Warren I couldn't find the post with the link to quote, but I'd urge everyone to work their way through this conversation.


I've ticked off around 90 mins so far and it has been almost entirely useful and interesting to listen to.

Smart people who know what they're talking about, trying their best to stop this from coming to life. And quite sad that the Griffin channels jumped on this to try and make it suit their own needs.
 
Yes, to everyone who commented about the "declaration of an emergency." I know this was Reed's main concern during our panel discussion. It would be the easiest way to clear the roads of "amateurs." You could easily add some simple wording to accomplish this, including the addition / allowance of specific non-emergency vehicles, like TV stations. My gut feeling is that there will be a compromise without code-3 lights, but it could be just as worse. I'm not sure how this would play out in reality, especially when people are fleeing / evacuating from a storm or fire area.
 
Yes, to everyone who commented about the "declaration of an emergency." I know this was Reed's main concern during our panel discussion. It would be the easiest way to clear the roads of "amateurs." You could easily add some simple wording to accomplish this, including the addition / allowance of specific non-emergency vehicles, like TV stations. My gut feeling is that there will be a compromise without code-3 lights, but it could be just as worse. I'm not sure how this would play out in reality, especially when people are fleeing / evacuating from a storm or fire area.
I have spoken to many other Emergency Managers, Deputies, Sheriff's, and etc. We have all said the same thing. Whether or not this bill passes, if a media chaser bypasses a road block, we'll be kicking them out of our disaster zone. Lol.

As I stated in my letter, allowing untrained people into a disaster zone is a huge liability and many in public safety will go against this bill if enacted.

It is not a winning fight for those endorsing it.
 
Been reading through this whole thread a bit at a time over the past week. and like anyone here totally see what a bad idea it is (especially the part media being able to basically act like an emergency responder on the roads). If chasing is "banned" I also don't know how they'd determine "that car is a storm-chaser", "that other one is just some guy driving from one place to another". If some form of this passes, I totally see the slippery-slope of where other surrounding states start looking at something similar.

Oh... and I can just see if it were to pass, the media truck outfitted with blinky lights, thinking its a real emergency vehicle, driving like a maniac to get to the nearest storm first:
 

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Tried to read most of the thread so I hope I am not redundant.

Has anyone made the point to lawmakers that the vast majority of chasing fatalities, as well as accidents and bad behavior, almost all are people who thought they had a legit reason to take more risks than they may have without those emboldening reasons? Whether media or science or tour groups, nearly all the really bad mistakes were made on an initial premise that these people had some duty or authority to take those exceptional risks for their endeavor.

Favoring media who can pony up some large fee and outfit a vehicle with a bunch of lights to get special access is definitely a violation of standard interpretation of media access rights. Only real emergency responders whose job it is to protect lives should be able to determine who can pass certain areas in a disaster. After that, all media should be treated equally. Whether you show up with a 1991 handicam or an Arii, in a decked out weather truck with emergency lights or a 3 cylinder beater - you can have equal media rights anywhere in this country by law. In the age of digital media, you don't even need a press pass except in limited scenarios as long as you are on public property.

With the additional background that legacy media is pushing this, it is clear they are doing whatever out of touch thing they can think of (dinosaur brain thinking) to get better footage than the legion of chasers or random people with phones who have taken their revenue and usefulness away. Their goal will never be achieved, but if the bill passes I have zero doubt other states will follow with various versions all leading eventually to trying to punish people for becoming part of the hordes of idiots we see on high risk days.

There absolutely are problems in the chase community that will never change until the culture matures (which it never will due to entitled adrenaline fueled stupidry) but this law has zero chance of making Oklahoma safer and clearly has no intent in that direction or it would propose something toward universal behavior near storms, like blocking a road under a tornado warning, etc. It should be treated as what it is - legacy media trying to save itself without innovating, by lining pockets and legislating its enemies - typical corporate evil behavior.

Hopefully the lawmakers will get the picture and back out of this for the terrible optics. It would never survive a lawsuit the way it looks, but could certainly be the gateway law to worse things.


EDIT: I would like to add a summary of what I personally think are the key points that need to be made to lawmakers throughout this discussion. As someone else pointed out, we don't want to lose access to chase as 'amateur' or whatever label is applied to generic chasers, but we should not sound like that is the only reason to oppose. Thing is, this bill does NOTHING to make the recreational part of chasing safer. Trying to ban regular people, locals or not from navigating near storms will not be feasible and a waste of emergency resources.
  1. This is about money and control, NOT safety. The fact that only big money media and in state research gets these rights is the obvious proof. There is nothing in the bill that enhances safety or public well being. Their goal is revenue/influence/control and banning chasers so they are the money makers and relevant again, because legacy media is dying.
  2. Limiting media access on public roads to big money legacy organizations is unconstitutional at the federal level, extremely obviously. You cannot choose media access by how much money it has. In the past, big media spent their big bucks to be better, faster, and have better cameras to get the good content. Now that the field is leveled and they refuse to innovate, they want to cheat and legislate.
  3. This law would interfere with locals and normal traffic. Even if code 3 is dropped, which I expect as this is a deceptive bill and this is the opening volley in a negotiation, still money media getting special treatment vs. the public will be impossible to enforce and cause confusion in emergency situations.
  4. Most bad behavior, fatalities, accidents already comes from those doing big money media, science, tours.
  5. If a bill wants to do something for the public good (why else are we making a state law here), there needs to be a lot more tangible benefits than some weak argument that big money media and only authorized researchers are somehow helping the public. Many of the best ground truths come faster and more accurately in spite of legacy media and researchers, not because of them.
  6. Giving any special responder rights to media in emergency situations is unheard of, VERY likely not constitutional including in the field or making declarations of what defines an emergency. Only law enforcement and government should have this power.
  7. There are much more sane ways to improve behavior and safety near storms (if that has anything to do with this bill at all) this is just not it.
 
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The bill is being altered, I know this for sure. It could end up being even more of a threat depending on the revisions. There are meetings this week between chasers and the representatives. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol continues to oppose this bill. There is some hope they could persuade the Governor to veto the bill at some point.
 
The bill is being altered, I know this for sure. It could end up being even more of a threat depending on the revisions. There are meetings this week between chasers and the representatives. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol continues to oppose this bill. There is some hope they could persuade the Governor to veto the bill at some point.
Killing it, not dialog/conversation, not "everybody gets a little something, but not everything that they want" compromise, is the answer.
The Hegelian Dialectic Synthesis (compromise) is just nudging things along, getting their feet in the door for the next time.

Quote from @Dave C above, I agree with these points

"EDIT: I would like to add a summary of what I personally think are the key points that need to be made to lawmakers throughout this discussion. As someone else pointed out, we don't want to lose access to chase as 'amateur' or whatever label is applied to generic chasers, but we should not sound like that is the only reason to oppose. Thing is, this bill does NOTHING to make the recreational part of chasing safer. Trying to ban regular people, locals or not from navigating near storms will not be feasible and a waste of emergency resources.
This is about money and control, NOT safety. The fact that only big money media and in state research gets these rights is the obvious proof. There is nothing in the bill that enhances safety or public well being. Their goal is revenue/influence/control and banning chasers so they are the money makers and relevant again, because legacy media is dying.
Limiting media access on public roads to big money legacy organizations is unconstitutional at the federal level, extremely obviously. You cannot choose media access by how much money it has. In the past, big media spent their big bucks to be better, faster, and have better cameras to get the good content. Now that the field is leveled and they refuse to innovate, they want to cheat and legislate.
This law would interfere with locals and normal traffic. Even if code 3 is dropped, which I expect as this is a deceptive bill and this is the opening volley in a negotiation, still money media getting special treatment vs. the public will be impossible to enforce and cause confusion in emergency situations.
Most bad behavior, fatalities, accidents already comes from those doing big money media, science, tours.
If a bill wants to do something for the public good (why else are we making a state law here), there needs to be a lot more tangible benefits than some weak argument that big money media and only authorized researchers are somehow helping the public. Many of the best ground truths come faster and more accurately in spite of legacy media and researchers, not because of them.
Giving any special responder rights to media in emergency situations is unheard of, VERY likely not constitutional including in the field or making declarations of what defines an emergency. Only law enforcement and government should have this power.
There are much more sane ways to improve behavior and safety near storms (if that has anything to do with this bill at all) this is just not it."

For some reason, my copy pasta left out the bullet point numbers.
 
Any bill that limits journalists, spotters, out of state researchers and EMT's equal access is not going to work. I'm still curious why researchers like Josh Wurman are not having a fit, since the bill only grants OU researchers "code-3" response privileges. This fight is still very far from over. I'm somewhat shocked and disappointed that some very well-known chasers are remaining silent despite the dangers of being completely nixed if this becomes law, e.g., Ryan Hall. Unless he joins the fight soon, his respect amongst chasers is in serious jeopardy. I do respect Reed Timmer for putting up a fight, as he could easily qualify for the golden ticket if he wanted.
 
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