Oklahoma Fire Chief Incident from May 16
- Thread starter Tony Laubach
- Start date
Mitchell Schelinder
Enthusiast
As a 31 year police officer, I wouldn't have a problem with what you did Tony. I'm a storm spotter, not a chaser. Unless I get a direct order from a superior, I'd just let you all go. You guys know the science, and from what I read there was no reckless driving to endanger. I too would have blown that guy off. Not to mention give him a mouth full of knuckles for trying to enter my car. Plus, if he was a firefighter or police officer they should have some form of ID to prove it. Don't sweat the few morons that are out there. Keep up the good work.
Warren Faidley
Supporter
Good for you for standing up for what is right. Don't let anyone tell you that you did anything wrong. I know how it is to be completely right and justified in a situation and how doubt can creep in and cloud your mind. I feel sad for anyone who defends the actions of this individual if they have seen the evidence. The videos are 100% proof of your proper behavior and would hold up in any legal setting. The bad apples should be weeded out, but you are not one of them.
Tony Laubach
EF5
Having been home and back to work, I learned that in addition to the city Mayor, Chad's wife called my station to complain. She justified his actions by stating that the department does not have the funding for vehicles/emergency lights/etc. Apparently the Mayor started pretty hot and simmered, but per my boss, the wife was less friendly.
I hail hate to even feel the need to bring this up. I've been at work at my department when even when we have our turnout gear on, holding signs, cones out and our fire trucks lighting up the sky like Broadway, we still have people driving around us and running over our hoses. Even the large diameter to the hydrants. This is at structure fires and accidents. I've never seen any of my coworkers scream, holler or in any other way lose their minds at these people.
Now compare that to what we have seen recorded on video. No identifiable official clothing,no signs out, no cones and an individual cutting across the road in a vehicle bearing no official lighting or markings. ( this doesn't include the fire trucks pulled to the right side of the road earlier in the sequence). There is no reason for any thinking person to assume this guy is anything but some loony that's looking for trouble. Think about how you would expect someone to react if you pulled this same kind of stunt driving YOUR personal vehicle and wearing your normal clothes. It probably wouldn't go well.
If myself, or any of my coworkers would have acted like this, we would have been fired immediately. Our coworkers wouldn't have been defending us out on social media either. There is a certain amount of professionalism that is demanded and expected. That kind of stuff is indefensible. I understand that this was a volunteer, but I was a volunteer back in the day and tried even harder to carry myself in a professional manner so as not to embarrass my department. I also understand that these individuals probably don't go out on a lot of runs and may get overly excited, but when you represent your department out on a road somewhere, you have to reel yourself in and not let your emotions take over your actions. This department needs to sit down to look at this and decide if that is how they should be represented. Blind loyalty shouldn't take precedence over what your eyes can plainly see.
Tony, you are doing the right stuff
Now compare that to what we have seen recorded on video. No identifiable official clothing,no signs out, no cones and an individual cutting across the road in a vehicle bearing no official lighting or markings. ( this doesn't include the fire trucks pulled to the right side of the road earlier in the sequence). There is no reason for any thinking person to assume this guy is anything but some loony that's looking for trouble. Think about how you would expect someone to react if you pulled this same kind of stunt driving YOUR personal vehicle and wearing your normal clothes. It probably wouldn't go well.
If myself, or any of my coworkers would have acted like this, we would have been fired immediately. Our coworkers wouldn't have been defending us out on social media either. There is a certain amount of professionalism that is demanded and expected. That kind of stuff is indefensible. I understand that this was a volunteer, but I was a volunteer back in the day and tried even harder to carry myself in a professional manner so as not to embarrass my department. I also understand that these individuals probably don't go out on a lot of runs and may get overly excited, but when you represent your department out on a road somewhere, you have to reel yourself in and not let your emotions take over your actions. This department needs to sit down to look at this and decide if that is how they should be represented. Blind loyalty shouldn't take precedence over what your eyes can plainly see.
Tony, you are doing the right stuff
Austin Davis
EF0
Tony, do you still intend on sharing the videos again? Not to sound impatient but I would like the view the first one.
I shared it with the Director or Emergency Management from my local county (Northeastern OK), and while he had some opinions of his own that I won't share publicly. There was an accusation you crossed a double yellow line on the highway when the fire trucks were pulled over off the side of the road. There were also a few other accusations of traffic violations - one of them being not yielding to an emergency vehicle.
Again, I haven't studied the first video so I'm just repeating what was said.
My own personal opinion still stands from my original post, the fire chief had no legal authority to block a public highway with his personal ranch truck! Especially given the fact he had no emergency lighting on it indicating he was either EM, fire, or deputy etc. The dude made a clear mistake and its crazy people are trying to defend that.
I shared it with the Director or Emergency Management from my local county (Northeastern OK), and while he had some opinions of his own that I won't share publicly. There was an accusation you crossed a double yellow line on the highway when the fire trucks were pulled over off the side of the road. There were also a few other accusations of traffic violations - one of them being not yielding to an emergency vehicle.
Again, I haven't studied the first video so I'm just repeating what was said.
My own personal opinion still stands from my original post, the fire chief had no legal authority to block a public highway with his personal ranch truck! Especially given the fact he had no emergency lighting on it indicating he was either EM, fire, or deputy etc. The dude made a clear mistake and its crazy people are trying to defend that.
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Brett Roberts
EF5
When a vehicle (emergency or otherwise) is pulled over on the shoulder on a remote section of a two-lane highway, is it not common courtesy/safety to shift over a bit (perhaps across the centerline) to give them some buffer, provided there's no oncoming traffic and you have clear visibility ahead? How about if you see a turtle coming up in the right of your own lane, and there's absolutely no reason not to shift left?
This is something Dan Robinson alluded to in a recent discussion: the hypercritical analysis of every minor technical traffic infraction by chasers never ceases to amaze me. Austin, this obviously isn't directed at you personally, at all; I understand you're reporting someone else's opinion, and that perhaps they were simply trying to give a worst-case analysis from a legal standpoint. It just seemed like an amusing example of the kind of technicality a chaser would be chastised for, either by hostile LEOs/locals or disingenuous "rival" chasers, in this crazy climate of 2017 chasing.
Dan Robinson
EF5
Some relevant information regarding "move over" laws:
http://people.smu.edu/acambre/move_over_laws.asp
Oklahoma's statute doesn't specify a "safe speed" as a few other states do (those that do say 20mph less than the posted speed limit), and it's clear in the video that Tony was traveling at less than 40mph, likely even less than that. I also assume that there is no issue with crossing the double yellow to pass emergency vehicles as long as there is no oncoming traffic, but I wasn't able to find a definitive answer to that. The state statutes all say to slow to a safe speed if you can't move over, as would be the case on a two-lane road with oncoming traffic.
In this case, Tony's crossing of the double yellows was a necessary maneuver to avoid a collision, which I don't know of any statute that could be used cite him for that.
http://people.smu.edu/acambre/move_over_laws.asp
Oklahoma's statute doesn't specify a "safe speed" as a few other states do (those that do say 20mph less than the posted speed limit), and it's clear in the video that Tony was traveling at less than 40mph, likely even less than that. I also assume that there is no issue with crossing the double yellow to pass emergency vehicles as long as there is no oncoming traffic, but I wasn't able to find a definitive answer to that. The state statutes all say to slow to a safe speed if you can't move over, as would be the case on a two-lane road with oncoming traffic.
In this case, Tony's crossing of the double yellows was a necessary maneuver to avoid a collision, which I don't know of any statute that could be used cite him for that.
Dan Robinson
EF5
Exactly - the fire/LEO/EM personnel are apparently immune from any criticism by virtue of their positions in the community, and given a free pass for any egregious behavior. Meanwhile, civilians are burdened with an expectation of perfection and a full responsibility to anticipate and compensate for actions of the "anything goes" culture afforded by an emergency vehicle's presence. Such a double standard.
Austin Davis
EF0
Figured I'd add these to the thread.
Here is the 'Move Over Law' direct from the State of Oklahoma website.
https://www.ok.gov/odot/Move_Over_Law.html
Extra credit:
Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
Chapter 1- Definitions of Words and Phrases
Section 1-103 - Emergency Vehicles
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=81888
Obviously a private ranch truck is not an authorized emergency vehicle.
Here is the 'Move Over Law' direct from the State of Oklahoma website.
https://www.ok.gov/odot/Move_Over_Law.html
Extra credit:
Oklahoma Statutes Citationized
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
Chapter 1- Definitions of Words and Phrases
Section 1-103 - Emergency Vehicles
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=81888
Obviously a private ranch truck is not an authorized emergency vehicle.
Tony Laubach
EF5
I will post a still when I get home... no, I had not completed the "pass" before it went double-yellow, although I personally think that's irrelevant given that both trucks had pulled clear of the right-of-way (even as it was brief) and I was operating under the "move over law" at that point.
I am being held off on posting my report publically, which is why the delay. There are things being looked at, thus I am waiting to get the all-clear. While there is some grey area in my incident with the fire trucks, that is also irrelevant given the main focus is the fire fighter who was up the road. Nothing I did excuses that action.
But the fire truck passing is also being looked at. Will post the still of the fire truck passing shortly.
I am being held off on posting my report publically, which is why the delay. There are things being looked at, thus I am waiting to get the all-clear. While there is some grey area in my incident with the fire trucks, that is also irrelevant given the main focus is the fire fighter who was up the road. Nothing I did excuses that action.
But the fire truck passing is also being looked at. Will post the still of the fire truck passing shortly.
Tony Laubach
EF5
So here is the still, this was one of the frames that have both fire trucks out of the right-of-way. This didn't last long as the rear truck immediately proceeded to pull back into the right-of-way as I began my pass. My GPS log has me going at speeds between 30-35mph during this period; posted speed limit here is 65mph.
Austin Davis
EF0
Oh look, no double lines on the highway! Ty for posting! Also they were completely off the road so totally legal to pass them. Realistically what they should have done was either performed a rolling roadblock or slowed traffic using their emergency vehicle then closed the highway, if that was truly their intention. They allowed you to pass. Its clearly evident!
http://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...d-6-months-following-assault-charge/373613277
http://fox61.com/2017/04/04/yelling-woman-leads-to-assault-arrest-of-man-in-killingly/
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-firefighter-convicted-beating-woman-20150521-story.html
Would love to see him added to the list.
http://fox61.com/2017/04/04/yelling-woman-leads-to-assault-arrest-of-man-in-killingly/
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-firefighter-convicted-beating-woman-20150521-story.html
Would love to see him added to the list.
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