mike scantlin
EF3
that site is a scam. dont do it.
Dan Robinson
Stay away from Best Price Cameras and any seller offering at those prices - they are a classic 'bait and switch' scam shop! Always check resellerratings.com, or better yet just stick with B&H. If it is steeply discounted, the place is a scam. There are no true deals like that in the realm of cameras. You will never get the camera with everything that is supposed to come with it at that price, and may never get it at all. Read the thousands of horror stories at resellerratings.com. These places are well-known criminals but somehow allowed to keep operating.
Bill Tabor
EF5
Let me add that B&H (often touted) is certainly reliable and trustworthy; however you won't get that much of a discounted price. I have used other more discounted sites like Electronic Boutique and others with no problems and saved a lot of cash of B&H. Still, as Dan mentioned you never want to go with the bottom dollar sites if they are 40% to 50% cheaper. That is typically a sign that it is a scam. Actually what most of those sites do is sell you only parts of the original camera package. The low cam price is for the basic camera or body, but then you have to pay separate for the lens, ac adapter, etc - which ends up costing you more. You can get a good deal but you have to take your time and do your homework. Look on reselleratings and other sources to see ratings and buyer comments. When you look at the actual ad by a seller see if it specifically mentions what is included in the kit. You can go to the manufacturer site to find out what the kit should normally include. If in doubt call and see what it comes with. This will give you an idea also of what it is like to talk / deal with these people and how supportive or annoying they are. Do they try and sell you a bunch of extra stuff for instance? Also find out about warranties and shipping costs - all important.
As an added favor to the community perhaps some of us that have dealt with the various sites should mention the companies they have purchased from before with no problems and a good experience.
Actually I've called BestPriceCameras before for another camcorder and they confirmed (in that case) it wasn't the complete kit. They quickly told me on the phone what kit I would have to order to have all the original manufacturer items included. Just ask and see what they tell you.
According to Canon website here is what is supposed to be 'in the box':
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869#BoxContentsAct
HV20 Camcorder
BP-2L13 Battery Pack (with Terminal Cover)
CA-570 Compact Power Adapter
STV-250 N Stereo Video Cable
WL-D87 Wireless Controller
IFC-300PCU USB Cable
CTC-100 S Component Cable
Digital Video Solution Disc for Windows and Macintosh
Best deal online I see right now is Butterfly Photo for $639.90 and free shipping. I believe I've used Butterfly Photo before but would have to confirm. It appears their 'Whats in the Box' page shows all the proper items in the kit (I think).
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/produ...HV20&zmam=8564958&zmas=1&zmac=75&zmap=CANHV20
As an added favor to the community perhaps some of us that have dealt with the various sites should mention the companies they have purchased from before with no problems and a good experience.
Actually I've called BestPriceCameras before for another camcorder and they confirmed (in that case) it wasn't the complete kit. They quickly told me on the phone what kit I would have to order to have all the original manufacturer items included. Just ask and see what they tell you.
According to Canon website here is what is supposed to be 'in the box':
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&fcategoryid=177&modelid=14869#BoxContentsAct
Best deal online I see right now is Butterfly Photo for $639.90 and free shipping. I believe I've used Butterfly Photo before but would have to confirm. It appears their 'Whats in the Box' page shows all the proper items in the kit (I think).
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/produ...HV20&zmam=8564958&zmas=1&zmac=75&zmap=CANHV20
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Josh Richardson
EF4
Thanks guys, kinda figured it was too good to be true. Oh well, I saw many sites between 600-700 which is still excellent anyway.
Gene Moore
EF3
Being spoiled by years of great low light performance I'm leery of this statement from a CNET online review:
"Since it's a single-chip design (as opposed to three-chip), low-light performance isn't amazing. Still, the graininess in low light was considerably better than you'd see in a camcorder with a smaller sensor, though in extremely dim conditions, color fidelity and overall dynamic range drop precipitously, leaving largely monochrome video with very little shadow detail. Canon's night mode does little to fix this, instead dropping the shutter to such a slow speed that you end up with video that looks like lazy stop-action animation."
It has one 2.7" sensor with a F 1.8 - F 3.0 zoom lens. Which means the camera loses about 1.5 stops zoomed. Two more issues are a minimum of 1/6 shutter speed and no auto white balance while the camera is running. That is, if you switch the scene to different lighting, common in a moving chase vehicle, the camera must be stopped and restarted. Sounds great for nice daylight well backlit tubes, but in poor conditions it may be less than what most of us became used to getting from cameras such as the Sony 2000 series.
"Since it's a single-chip design (as opposed to three-chip), low-light performance isn't amazing. Still, the graininess in low light was considerably better than you'd see in a camcorder with a smaller sensor, though in extremely dim conditions, color fidelity and overall dynamic range drop precipitously, leaving largely monochrome video with very little shadow detail. Canon's night mode does little to fix this, instead dropping the shutter to such a slow speed that you end up with video that looks like lazy stop-action animation."
It has one 2.7" sensor with a F 1.8 - F 3.0 zoom lens. Which means the camera loses about 1.5 stops zoomed. Two more issues are a minimum of 1/6 shutter speed and no auto white balance while the camera is running. That is, if you switch the scene to different lighting, common in a moving chase vehicle, the camera must be stopped and restarted. Sounds great for nice daylight well backlit tubes, but in poor conditions it may be less than what most of us became used to getting from cameras such as the Sony 2000 series.
Josh Richardson
EF4
Sorry to rehash a probable previous subject but any recommendations for better low light performance at an affordable price such as the Canon I have been looking to get? Im assuming for the price range I should stick to the HV20 but I'll wait to hear from some of you first.
Dustin Wilcox
EF5
I bought a HD camcorder last year about this time, I opted for the Sony HC line over the Canon HV20 as I liked the feel better... that being said, if I could do it over again, I would have given up having the "HD" and opted for something like the VX2000 or 2100, maybe even the GL2. Now, those prosumer non-HD models cost a little more than the consumer HD camcorders, but when I bought mine they where pretty similar in price, that alone means something. IMO if you can't afford a HD prosumer camcorder like the FX-1 or FX-7, your best off either going with a non HD prosumer, over a HD consumer model, especially when your primarily going to be using the camcorder in low light. With this option your probably going to forfeit a little resolution and color, but what you will gain in low light (most of chasing footage) will out-weigh those losses.
Mickey Ptak
EF5
How often are you going to encounter a low enough light situation while chasing to offset the cost of the HV20 vs. a $4000+ pro-consumer camera? At the most, 20% of your yearly chases. When I mean low light I mean dusk or night shooting. Even in dark rain (storm environment / core punching) the HV20 will do very very well (per my test shoots).
Here is the thing about pro-consumer cameras and chasing. I have a DVX100A that I hate using while chasing (I like it for other shoots though). It is big, bulky and very hard to shoot with while in a cramped and moving car. Plus you have all those button / setting to mess with all while doing the half dozen other things you have to attend to while chasing.
There are some negatives about the HV20, extreme low low light being one of them, but again you will not encounter those situations on every chase and if you do it is probably <2-5% of the entire chase. Trust me you will not be disappointed with the HV20 for most chase situations.
Is it really worth the 50-70% markup for a pro-consumer camcorder in your case? Well, that's up to you. As for me, I will stick with the HV20 for many years to come. Good price and great quality all across the board.
Listening to other is not going to help. Everyone seems to be gun-ho about low light and camcorders when low light situations only make up a fraction of your entire chase shooting scenarios.
My last 2 cents.
Mick
Here is the thing about pro-consumer cameras and chasing. I have a DVX100A that I hate using while chasing (I like it for other shoots though). It is big, bulky and very hard to shoot with while in a cramped and moving car. Plus you have all those button / setting to mess with all while doing the half dozen other things you have to attend to while chasing.
There are some negatives about the HV20, extreme low low light being one of them, but again you will not encounter those situations on every chase and if you do it is probably <2-5% of the entire chase. Trust me you will not be disappointed with the HV20 for most chase situations.
Is it really worth the 50-70% markup for a pro-consumer camcorder in your case? Well, that's up to you. As for me, I will stick with the HV20 for many years to come. Good price and great quality all across the board.
Listening to other is not going to help. Everyone seems to be gun-ho about low light and camcorders when low light situations only make up a fraction of your entire chase shooting scenarios.
My last 2 cents.
Mick
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Josh Richardson
EF4
Thanks for the responses guys, as I already planned Im sure I will be going with the HV20. Its just too hard to ignore the price comparison and as Mickey said how many situations will I be in where I will run into the low light performance issue, obviously some but just not enough to justify spending that much more for a pro-type HD cam.
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