LISTEN TO **FACTS**-NOT ESTIMATES!!

Please take this in the spirit that it's meant to be in. I brought up my disapproval of estimated death toll figures in the "Death Toll" thread. I was in New York at a Comp USA, and I was on the Internet reading the news. I read the NO mayor's take that there may be "thousands" of dead. And now, that statement is all over the Net.

I understand what it's like to deal with a large loss of life. 9/11 happened 9 days after my father died, and I could easily have died there in New York among those 2,800 people, given how often I went there. I was surrounded by death. My mother was wailing in grief over the loss of my father, as well as 9/11. I went to New York, and saw all those horrified, confused, angry people. I understand how hard that is to deal with. I learned more about death than I ever wanted to learn

I understand that folks are upset. MAYBE the death toll may be as high as the mayor estimated it would be.

Let me bold-face these two words again, in case you folks missed them:

MAYBE. ESTIMATE.

The mayor is human, like all of us. He's obviously very shaken up by all this, as we are. But again-I don't think it's a good idea to throw around estimates. Many folks have relatives down there, and this could do nothing more than terrify them. Some of them might be visiting this board.

PLEASE STICK TO THE FACTS. POST ONLY FACTS.

I'm sure there are many of you who know New Orleans way better than I do. And yes, the loss of life will probably be great. But as someone else on that thread said, present the FACTS, and let people deal with that. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED YET.

Now, let me also say that I'm a very realistic person, and I've always looked at life in a harshly realistic way. But by the same token, we can't let fear and sensationalism cloud our judgements. We are all horrified by this. But let's try and take this a step at a time, and not make rash judgements.

Of course, people here will do what they want, and that's fine. I'm just expressing my point of view.

Make of that what you will.
 
We encourage people to cite their sources -- we are hoping that will curb some of the misinformation and allow people to challenge it when they see it.

Tim
 
We encourage people to cite their sources -- we are hoping that will curb some of the misinformation and allow people to challenge it when they see it.

Tim

Hi Tim,

I know that we are all emotionally caught up in this. But being human, we sometimes let that get the better of us. I'm just asking folks to stop and think about what is being said, who's saying it, and under what circumstances statements are being made under. I don't care if it's the NO mayor, or President Bush himself. They are human, and are prone to getting emotionally caught up like the rest of us.
 
Very few reports coming off the wires can be defined as fact. Most are eye witness accounts or second hand information. Without them, we really wouldn't have any idea of what's going on down there. Most have verified. The death toll was posted with the wording, "estimate, possibly, perhaps" and sources were linked. It was simply the mayor's quote and presented as such. Those with family in the New Orleans who have access to this forum likely have access to a television and have heard that same unyielding report being broadcast on all the major networks, all day. I'm not quite sure what relationship is with 9/11 that you're are perceiving.
 
Why shouldn't people cite quotes from authority figures, in the area, regarding the current event? That is exactly what the mayor's quote was, and in brutal honesty, despite what information we have here, chances are still VERY HIGH the mayor of N.O. is in a far better position to give such estimates than we are. Now yes, I would agree that postings of "I heard from someone about such and such" are bad... but when an authority figure, on the ground, in the area gives an estimate, I see no reason why that information shouldn't be disseminated as it was said... and estimate.
 
If a city or government official makes a statement... I think that is fair game to quote and post. Take it for what it is.
 
PLEASE STICK TO THE FACTS. POST ONLY FACTS.

I'm sure there are many of you who know New Orleans way better than I do. And yes, the loss of life will probably be great. But as someone else on that thread said, present the FACTS, and let people deal with that. WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED YET.

I disagree with this statement. If FEMA, DHS, or officials from an area are giving statements with their estimates, there is nothing wrong with posting them, and letting people take the statements for what they are, and forming their own opinions.
 
The early stages of 9/11 had estimates of 30,000 dead and it wasnt true. However. If you dont think there is a massive loss of life with this then wake up. The media is being VERY cautious on what they are showing. What you dont see are the bodies in the streets and bloated corpses floating everywhere. A few reporters have reported seeing these things......only a few in a few closed off locations....this is probably jusat a drop in the bucket as to whats really going on.
I actually hope I am totally wrong but as the weeks unfold...things are not going to be pretty. Heck....people were saying everyone "dodged a bullet" just a few hours after the storm had passed.....they were wrong.
The reporters and rescuers are doing their best. They are nearly in the same boat as some of these others....literally.
Worry about false media reports should be the last of our worries right now the only info we need to worry about is how to keep people safe and alive and what we can do to help. Even if its something as simple as not going for a quick ride in the car or putting off mowin the lawn a few days to help with gas.
 
I'm not quite sure what relationship is with 9/11 that you're are perceiving.

It's one thing to ESTIMATE a massive death toll, and quite another to see it as HARD FACT, like with 9/11. I just want folks to keep that in mind.
 
The early stages of 9/11 had estimates of 30,000 dead and it wasnt true. However. If you dont think there is a massive loss of life with this then wake up. The media is being VERY cautious on what they are showing. What you dont see are the bodies in the streets and bloated corpses floating everywhere. A few reporters have reported seeing these things......only a few in a few closed off locations....this is probably jusat a drop in the bucket as to whats really going on.
I actually hope I am totally wrong but as the weeks unfold...things are not going to be pretty. Heck....people were saying everyone "dodged a bullet" just a few hours after the storm had passed.....they were wrong.

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that there won't be a large loss of life. We are already at 100 dead, if I'm correct. If it turns out the mayor was right, well...I'll have to accept that, won't I? What else can I do? That's life. (shrug)

But people have a tendency to mix up estimates and facts, and that's what I'm cautioning against.
 
I'm not quite sure what relationship is with 9/11 that you're are perceiving.

It's one thing to ESTIMATE a massive death toll, and quite another to see it as HARD FACT, like with 9/11. I just want folks to keep that in mind.

Okay, so you point is??? Obviously we all know the death toll at this point is only an estimate. Afterall, it will be weeks before the true numbers are known.
 
I'm not quite sure what relationship is with 9/11 that you're are perceiving.

It's one thing to ESTIMATE a massive death toll, and quite another to see it as HARD FACT, like with 9/11. I just want folks to keep that in mind.

Okay, so you point is??? Obviously we all know the death toll at this point is only an estimate. Afterall, it will be weeks before the true numbers are known.

See the above post. And if you still don't get my point, well-whatever. I'm not expecting people to necessarily agree with me-but I'm standing my ground. There's nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.
 
While yes, these figures are in fact ESTIMATIONS - they are likely UNDER-ESTIMATIONS unfortunately.
estimations nonetheless, i suppose...

EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I realize how ludicris the suggestion that we could have escaped with 'only' a couple hundred dead is....the city is ruined.
 
While yes, these figures are in fact ESTIMATIONS - they are likely UNDER-ESTIMATIONS unfortunately.
estimations nonetheless, i suppose...

:(

Again-if you're right, well-we have no choice but to accept it and deal with it somehow. Until then, I'll wait until that bridge has to be crossed.

:?
 
My thoughts are as far as numbers are concerned is that it will be far worse numbers if people aren't rescued quickly. Right now maybe it's only hundreds, but if people aren't freed from their attics and provided with water to drink, and removed from the filthy bacteria laden sewage water they are walking in it may be far worse.

And therein lies the potential power of numbers. If people think many have died or that more will likely die, then larger numbers may actually motivate volunteer rescue workers to action and to help alleve the situation quicker.

Over hype is probably bad, but people need to get serious about the possible number of dead here and personally I don't think it is limited only to hundreds. FEMA said if this NO flooding event ever occured then death would be possibly in the range of 40,000 to 60,000. Truth is because of bacteria and other factors many of those walking around in the water right now are already dead and just don't know it yet. It's probably even worse for those hidden and trapped in their attics.
 
I'm just a weather junky and long time lurker. I'm no meteorologist. Most of you here may have more knowledge than I...but I watched for several days as Katrina developed, and I knew she would be monumental. We all saw her size as she grew in the Gulf. I'm just a nobody, but I could see that the damage she could possibly cause had the potential to be life-altering; at one point she took over almost the entire Gulf of Mexico, and I know you all saw that, too.

I knew at that time that many hundreds might possibly die, and so did all of you. There is a great likelihood now that we will never know the final death toll.

It really upsets me, and I have been in tears many times today, as I watch the frustration, and anger, and helplessness.

Please don't minimise this with the nitpicking.
 
People can post what they like, after all most of them are getting it from other people as well. Besides, I could see your point if they were posting numbers in a joking manner, but people are all genuinely concerned and just trying to put values to things so they can begin to understand the significance of what occurred. So far all the information has been really nebulous, so we're all trying to paint the picture so to speak. Sorry to say its natural human curiousity and you'll probably be unable to curb that.

I could also see your point if people were giving false damage reports (i.e. the superdome was destroyed) but nobody has done that.

...Alex Lamers...
 
People can post what they like, after all most of them are getting it from other people as well. Besides, I could see your point if they were posting numbers in a joking manner, but people are all genuinely concerned and just trying to put values to things so they can begin to understand the significance of what occurred. So far all the information has been really nebulous, so we're all trying to paint the picture so to speak. Sorry to say its natural human curiousity and you'll probably be unable to curb that.

I could also see your point if people were giving false damage reports (i.e. the superdome was destroyed) but nobody has done that.

...Alex Lamers...

I understand, and again-people will post what they wish. I'm just offering one POV.
 
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