Lightbars on chase vehicles

[Kurt Silvey]

Originally posted by Gayla Drummond

Aren't there more important subjects to discuss? :shock:

Ya. Although this has been an entertaining read, it’s taking too much of David’s time and I want to hear more about his chase vehicle build out. Heck I’m even thinking about putting strobes into the amber section of my rear turn indicators :lol:

 

[Susan Strom]

Originally posted by David Drummond
even comparisons to criminal behaviour is going too far. \"

No one is comparing chasers to criminals.

Lightbars are often associated with authorities. Criminals do take advantage of this association, for example, at the US/Mexico border by installing lightbars (lightbars were named as most prominent feature in this crime) on their SUVs to lure crossers to danger (kidnapping, robbery, etc.). The implication here is not that chasers are committing crimes of any sort, it is that the public's perception does show that lightbars portray some kind of official capacity...even if that is all it is, perception or imagined.

Because of this association and the attention they bring to the vehicle, I will never be sold on their use in stormchasing simply because in my mind, the cons far outweigh the pros. That is my opinion, speaking for myself.

Gender...how does this relate? Kinda missed that one.

Originally posted by David Drummond+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Drummond)</div>

You women posting on here....how many pairs of shoes do you have in your closet, be honest now?[/b]

Shoes(?) 2 pairs of hiking boots, 3 pairs of cowboy boots, 2 pairs of dress boots. A few dress-up pairs for formal parties. That's about it.

<!--QuoteBegin-David Drummond
Now I am betting most women would think I was nuts even questioning the need for multiple pairs of shoes.

Not at all. I completely understand why some womens' shoe addiction perplexes people. I don't get it either. But "we women" don't fit into a neat little category, neither do men.

Why a lightbar discussion gravitated to a gender discussion...that one escapes me.

Shoes? No. Multiple cameras, that I understand.

 

[Jeff Miller]

heheh

Well, I must put a final contribution into this annual liturgy on chase vehicle lighting and the ongoing debate. So, here goes.

Issue 1. LAW

My first post in here dealt with state legislation and the rules concerning amber lighting and what is and is not "legal". Truth be told, as the state of Oklahoma legislation clearly spoke, FLASHING amber lights for chasers, quite honestly, is not in the books as permitted. As Mr. Drummond stated in an earlier post, it may be an UNENFORCED law. Nevertheless, in most states, it is considered illegal, even if law enforcement does not enforce this. I know of one chaser whom I shall not name in Nebraska who was stopped for having lights on their car that were not legal. I think the opinion of those who are "FOR" lightbars, even though it MAY be "illegal" is "if they dont say anything, I dont have a problem with it". That in my opinion does not change the fact that it may indeed be illegal, and that may not stop one officer in a bad mood from issuing a ticket, or worse, on an "unenforced" law.

Issue 2: EGO

This is a given OK? Men have egos. Its a "tool time, home improvement thing". Man, can you imagine if "Tim the Tool Man Taylor" was a chaser? I wont even go there! But there is some truth in that, we're men, so we like to go all out and be proud of it, thats a fact. But I believe with responsible chasers, its beyond that. I can see the relevance of how amber lighting can help in low visibility situations. I can see the use in hail fog, at night, and in damage situations if approved to be there. Is there an ego factor? yes, of course. But I do not believe that that is as high as a chaser's desire for safety at all costs for themselves, other chasers, and the general public, and if safety is the main part of the equation, I applaud that.

Issue 3: THE CHASE COMMUNITY

The other big issue I see surfacing here is how this impacts the Chase Community as a whole. Does this cause negative reactions to chasers? ONLY if the chaser uses them in a manner they are not meant to be used for, i.e, blocking roads, speeding around cars, etc. With proper use, amber lights on the vehicle have as much impact on the chase community as a bug splat on a window of the same chase vehicle. It's simply not something that is going to effect one's decision of storm targeting, tracking and chasing. In a nutshell, its not the lights, its who is driving the car with the lights and what they are doing.

With that said, I'll give my final thoughts on this...

ISSUE 4: HOW IT AFFECTS ME

It doesn't.


Amber lights are in most cases not legal, however, the law is usually unenforced. Large numbers of chasers have them, and frankly, its up to them, It's not my problem, I dont care, because it does not affect me as a chaser, my chasing, the storm, or anything else for that manner. If one chooses to have lights, awesome, its their responsibility. If one chooses not to, awesome, it's their decision. This is a personal decision on a personal vehicle, and whatever happens, that person takes responsibility. Personally, Im just glad they are on the road, chasing, and fulfilling their given passion of the pursuit of untamed skies. As echoed elsewhere, if you don't interfere with MY chasing, I'm all for whatever you do. It's what makes independent storm chasing so great.

There's my thoughts... and with that, happy chasing to everyone, I cant wait to see many of you on the field. Let's find some tornadoes, let's find incredible storm structure, let's get that prize photograph, write some chase reports, and enjoy life. That is, after all, why we do what we do.

 

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Kurt Silvey

Ya. Although this has been an entertaining read, it’s taking too much of David’s time and I want to hear more about his chase vehicle build out. :lol:

1000% AGREED! Although much of what I have posted I have done on breaks. I type fast. :lol:

 

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Susan Strom+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Susan Strom)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-David Drummond

even comparisons to criminal behaviour is going too far. \"

No one is comparing chasers to criminals.

Lightbars are often associated with authorities. Criminals do take advantage of this association, for example, at the US/Mexico border by installing lightbars (lightbars were named as most prominent feature in this crime) on their SUVs to lure crossers to danger (kidnapping, robbery, etc.). The implication here is not that chasers are committing crimes of any sort, it is that the public's perception does show that lightbars portray some kind of official capacity...even if that is all it is, perception or imagined. [/b]

When you see a lightbar on....let's say the cable TV truck....does that give you the idea that it's associated with authority or somehow looks like a cop car? I would hope not. A person, if they even notice it, just thinks they have it on there for safety reasons. How many chase vehicles have you seen with lights (or even without) that your first though was, "That's a cop!" ?? I have seen one or two, and mostly because they were ex police crown vics. And you know I haven't seen them again either out chasing. I still think it's a far stretch for anyone to look at a decked out chase vehicle with a lightbar and think it's a cop, most especially if you have a wx station. When is the last time you saw one of those on a cop car? Now when someone comes up behind you really fast it might give them cause for pause, but they soon figure it out and go on. As I side note, if those people are that are getting duped coming across the border illegally, well I mean really, they are breaking the law in the first place crossing that way, they can't really complain much about what happens to them. Not saying it's ethical, just saying...

Gender...how does this relate? Kinda missed that one.

Why a lightbar discussion gravitated to a gender discussion...that one escapes me.

As does me. It was the throwing down of the testosterone gauntlet I think.

 

[David Drummond]

Re: heheh

Amber lights are in most cases not legal, however, the law is usually unenforced. L

This keeps coming up from various people but in most cases they ARE legal. In some cases there are some restrictions, in others, there are grey areas that chasers could fall in to depending on how you want to look at it. Then you get into the equipment laws where in most cases if equipment is legal in the state your vehicle is licensed, then it won't really matter in other states.

Of course we could get down and get really nitpicky with every law on the book that might apply to chasers. How many have some sort of screen, be in computer, tv or whatever viewable from the drivers seat? A bunch of chasers do and that is illegal in some places AND being enforced. Pretty sure some sort of law could be applied to various other pieces of equipment. Some states it's illegal to park on the side of the road or drive on the shoulder....seen lots of chasers do it. How many of you got gas and left your vehicle running? See, would could nitpick the heck out of everything, and I guarantee you if I had enough time I could find a law on the book in Texas that I could show each and every one of you that's been here has broken at some time. I am not going to worry about some grey area in the law that might be applied to me. If I am chasing and some LEO comes up and tells me to turn them off, then off they will go.

Whole point is, even if there is some obscure law that might apply to not using amber lights in a chase situation, it isn't being enforced 99.9% of the time by LEOs so that shows you how much they really care about it, despite the horrible reputation that some people have in their minds we as chasers have with LEOs. (I still don't understand that one.)

All I know is if I don't get some dang severe weather soon out here, I am going to explode! :shock:

 

[Mikel Shively]

well I guess I just use my for 100% for MY safety. Someone stated earlier that they dont understand why anyone would pay the money solely for safety reasons. Well Im sure some of you have chased in Missouri, and you know how well MODOT takes care of our roads, where you are doing real good on finding a place to pull off the road with out being in the ditch. The only real good roads are the Interstates and *Some* of the US highways. The state and county roads are mainly crap. With that being said, and I mostly chase in my own state, Chasing here, SOME kind of warning is necessary, and IMO, should be MANDATORY. Alot of you chase in states where its flat and the roads are nice, well, IMO thats a TOTALLY different situation. But I did some checking, and in MO, its 100% legal. I confirmed this with a buddy of mine thats in the MSHP. How you chase is your own deal, but I would rather come home at the end of the night than to be plastered on the front of a Peterbilt Semi.


Edited at 8:20 PM to correct spelling errors

 

[Jeff Miller]

Mikel, good deal!! I appreciate your dedication to safety. And kudos to you for checking with the State Highway Patrol in Missouri on your bar being legal...what kind do you have? and as an afterthought, care to post a pic of your ride? good luck in all your chasing this year!

 

[Tom Burgess]

:lol: Yea! Post a pic. Much better stuff...

 

[Melissa Moon]

It's stuff like this going on, where it appears some sort of personal offense has been given just because some people like different stuff on their chase vehicles than others that makes me wonder just what the heck is going on with the human race.

Gayla, like always, I respect your opinion along with everyone else on the bored, but I think the problem here is more along the lines of someone taking an opinion personally. You guys all know how I feel about this subject (not going to reiterate), but just because my opinion is what it is about the practice doesn't mean I have anything against the person. If someone feels like it is a personal attack if I say that I don't like excessive lights on chase vehicles or when people stand around and brag about the thousands of dollars put into "toys" that do virtually nothing useful, then I feel like it was just taken too personally. It's not like I'm saying "you're stupid for doing...." . The same goes with the fact that I don't always look highly upon some of the actions taken by my friends, particularly in some social settings. However, just because they partake in things that I don't particularly care for doesn't mean that they are any less of a friend to me or that I care about them any less.

You women posting on here....how many pairs of shoes do you have in your closet, be honest now?

4...A pair of black flip flops for warm weather, a pair of black Doc Martins I've had since 1998 that I wear just about everywhere, an old pair of sketchers for exercise I've had since 1999, and a pair of black dress shoes for special occasions. I have a few more pairs in the States that I've gotten over the years like some heeled boots to wear with suits and stuff, but really, I don't have a gargantuous amount. [/quote]

 

[Michael Auker]

It kinda amuses me how much attention this thread is getting. I wonder if it's time for storm season to fire up?

 

[Justin Turcotte]

It kinda amuses me how much attention this thread is getting.

Everyone is just shedding "light" on the subject. Maybe there is "light" at the end of the tunnel.

My two cents: If the item is used for safety purposes than more power to the user. It's not much different than a tow truck turning on the amber lights for added visibility purposes. The roads are dangerous. I have pulled well off a highway many times but still get nervous about my safety. I have seen enough video of state trooper cars (with all the pretty lights) getting smacked on the freeway which always make me think twice about where I park. If someone has an ego than why should I care? I have bigger things to worry about, like planning the next chase. He who dies with the most toys still dies... but if he lives a day longer for it all the better. No light bars on my car and no plans to add one. The 4-way flasher hazard lights suffice.

As far a legal issues are concerned, some laws are just plain silly (usually owing to careless political and emotional pandering) and meant to be broken. Prohibition, anyone?

 

[Karen Politte]

Just another turning of the tide here, since some want to make this a girls against guys thing.... You women posting on here....how many pairs of shoes do you have in your closet, be honest now? Most women I have know have AT LEAST a dozen, and usually lots more. >SNIP< I don't understand it, but if having 3 dozen pairs of shoes makes you happy then by all means.

:lol: Sorry David - you're a great guy and I truly appreciate everything technical you help me with from time to time......but I just HAD to indulge you here...

Let's see.........hmmm. Must be a pretty rich woman that has three dozen pairs of shoes n her closet. I, myself, am more preoccupied with standing in Wal-Mart and trying to figure out whether or not I can afford to buy an extra pack of cookies this month. But hey - whatever:

1 pair of rust-colored leather boots that I paid $65.00 for that broke the bank one winter.
2 pairs black strappy sandals - both cheap, both fairly/very high heels, I can't wear them as they give me blisters.
1 pair black court shoes I wear to work (am wearing currently!) that cost me $36.00 from JC Penney's. They've been good but constant daily wear since August 2004 now causes them to secrete black pieces of their plactic soles all over the place.
1 pair white strappy sandals. No - I don't wear white high heels, don't worry. They were for our wedding day.
1 pair of Nike sneakers - which were FAR too expensive, but my husband bought them for me for my birthday last month (yes - you all missed it - 3/11 FYI).
1 pair of brown, leather Skechers sandals that I wear occasionally - rugged sole.

There ya go - hope you're happy!

KR

 

[Susan Strom]

No such Emelda Marcos in the chase community I guess Come to think of it, I have never met a woman like that, friend, coworker. Maybe Emelda is to blame for the stereotype.

 

[Mikel Shively]

and as an afterthought, care to post a pic of your ride?

I would, but I still dont know how to post pictures. [/quote]