Is a "wedge" tornado fundamentally different to other tornadoes?

[Terry Tyler]

Tornadoes and other vortices are all different sizes, ranging from my 'Teanado', a vortex that formed atop my hot cup of coffee two years ago, some 15cm tall and 1cm across to a massive extra tropical low over the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans, these sometimes thousands of miles across. All of these are spinning columns of air.

i was just thinkin about that the other day...i always thought all tornadoes were fundamentally the same thing...

like different breeds of animals, its just the shape and size that separates them...

im not saying a tornado and a hurricane are the same thing, but they both spin...

 

[Adam Lucio]

Here's a concept about wedge tornadoes I would like to throw out:

I have seen video, I forget where, where there is an intense "inner tube" inside some wedges. In other words, first you have the dusty wedge part. But as that breaks, you often see the "tornado cone" that is often seen in non-wedge situations. Therefore, in at least *SOME* wedge tornado situations, there seems to be a tornado within the tornado. The inner tornado resembles what is often seen with cone and/or elephant trunk tornadoes in some situations, only visible as the dust clears or condensation in the wedge evaporates. It is these situations where it is plausible that the meso is indeed visible as a large wedge, due to either A) insane moisture availability and high dewpoint or B) large dust content on the surface sucked into the meso.

Is that the video From South Dakota? I believe the guys from tornadovideos.net got that one, there is a scared guy in the car named Alex. I started thinking the same thing after watching that video, its one of my favorites.

Youtube link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4MCu8Cv7WI

It appears the dust around the "inner tornado" starts out weak and then sort of fills in, as if there was a seperate area of rotation at ground level around the tornado [think of a bullseye where the areas in red are spinning and the white isnt.] of course its an off-the wall theory and I dont believe it to be true.

Ive never witnessed a wedge in action like this so Im not sure if it is a common occurance. It would make for an interesting study.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Is that the video From South Dakota? I believe the guys from tornadovideos.net got that one, there is a scared guy in the car named Alex. I started thinking the same thing after watching that video, its one of my favorites.

Youtube link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4MCu8Cv7WI

It appears the dust around the "inner tornado" starts out weak and then sort of fills in, as if there was a seperate area of rotation at ground level around the tornado [think of a bullseye where the areas in red are spinning and the white isnt.] of course its an off-the wall theory and I dont believe it to be true.

Ive never witnessed a wedge in action like this so Im not sure if it is a common occurance. It would make for an interesting study.

That's one of them. That video, the Hallam tornado, and others to me validate that many wedges do indeed have the "tornado within the tornado" and the phenomenon is probably much more common than many would believe.

Also, just because a wedge "appears" to be rotating slowly that doesn't always mean you don't have a tight inner tornado somewhere in there that is not visible - a combination of RFD blast and inflow on a dusty terrain can mask a tornado very darn well.

I think the Happy, Texas tornado is a good example. It started as a wedge tornado that pulled dirt and dust up from the ground and pulled it into the meso - producing a nice wedge-like effect though slow moving... as what we were seeing was large amounts of dust being pulled into the meso (which if there was not a dusty environment probably would not have happened and would not have been made visible). In fact, the whole wedge seemed to be made of dust being pulled into the mesocyclone itself. This is probably more common then not - by all effects yes, a tornado, but one that may not have been as visible if it was not over such a dusty environment. Perhaps "non-visible" wedge tornadoes with winds in the 70-90 MPH winds are more common underneath wall clouds and mesos than thought - only to be suddenly visible when moving upon unplowed or untreated dusty environments.

 

[Verne Carlson]

The Cactus wedge tornado, inner cone is slightly visible off-center to the right.

I have to agree as well that many wedge tornadoes seem to hide an inner cone and have either picked up enough dust or the condensation level has lowered almost to the ground to make it look as wide as the wall cloud. Essentially the wall cloud is on the ground. On April 21st, 2007 We saw such behavior with the Cactus, TX tornado.

Here the outer 'wedge' has lifted showing the inner cone tornado.

 

[MatthewCarman]

What about the Hallam, Nebraska tornado?? That monster was the largest ever recorded--2.5 miles across!

I did not read the whole thread but it was my understanding the Hallam tornado could have been multiple tornadoes and not just one tornado. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[MatthewCarman]

Here is a pic I found of the hallam wedge. It has always fascinated me.

Who took that picture? That is a asome shot of the Hallam NE tornado.

The Red Springs NC tornado of March 28, 1984 could have been 2.5 miles wide and the Moshanon State Forest PA tornado of May 31, 1985 was 2.2 miles wide rated as a F4 and travaled 69 miles. Let's not forget these tornadoes. Tornado expert Thomas Grazulis suggests the widest tornado to be measured (by damage path) was the Moshanon state forest tornado. This was taken out of one of my weather books made in 2004 so the Hallam tornado could be the largest tornado up to date.

 

[Dick McGowan]

Your book is old and google is your friend.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/oax/archive/hallam/hallam.php

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/oax/archive/hallam/hallam-tor.php

Although there is much debate if the 2.5 mile wide tornado damage path was all from tornadic winds, it seems as if it is the widest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallam,_Nebraska_Tornado_Outbreak

 

[Craig Maire II]

stuff lol

On 05/07/05 I along with a number of other chasers saw a wedge tornado (or atleast a pretty large dusty tornado) in Buffalo County Nebraska which did not seem to be strongly/violently rotating (we were driving as we watched it don't know if that had much effect on seeing visual rotation?) Its a pretty scary thought to think that some of these "weak wedges" may not be visible until they hit a dirt field etc. I'm sure they could still potentially pose a signifcant danger to a chaser etc. even though they are weak and hard to see. I will think twice about getting very close to a rotating wallcloud etc. after reading this thread

 

[MatthewCarman]

Your book is old and google is your friend.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/oax/archive/hallam/hallam.php

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/oax/archive/hallam/hallam-tor.php

Although there is much debate if the 2.5 mile wide tornado damage path was all from tornadic winds, it seems as if it is the widest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallam,_Nebraska_Tornado_Outbreak

Thanks for the links they were helpfull.