Dan Robinson
Amazing to see that Lake Ontario band still going. Would be cool to see an event-duration radar loop of that.
-
A new feature has been added to the Xenforo software - Shoutbox. A quick chat platform
- Science and Storm Chasing
- Advanced weather & chasing
Insane Lake Effect Snow
- Thread starter Robert Dewey
- Start date
beaudodson
EF5
Yes it would! Amazing to watch how it drifts north and then south. It is like a water hose.B Ozanne
EF5
Those duration loops look awesome. The band just drifts back and forth like a windsock. You can pull up a 12 hour loop on UCAR's site, not quite long enough.Andrew Sorce
I was just thinking about running a week long loop, and how one might go about doing that, glad I'm not alone. This event ranks as one of the most intense Ontario events that I've ever witnessed. Official reports of up to 6 feet of snow are coming out, and by the time it's over, I'm sure a couple local spots will be up to 8 or so. And all of this glorious snow passes right by me, its not fair.
Tom Stefanac
EF2
Not to burst the thundersnow bubble, but despite the lake effect bands being very intense as far as snow goes, their vertical depth was a little too shallow. There was some good glaciation with the bands, and some of the tops were getting down into the -35C range, but most of that was over land unfortunately.
The lightning maps were pretty bland, but there was the odd CG detected over the lake.
Fortunately as far as the wind was concerned, under the lake effect bands themselves the wind was either very light or just about nonexistent. Towards the edges of the bands the winds were quite strong and blustery creating blizzard like conditions.
In the multibanded squalls the situation was very different, the snow rates were not really that high but the cellular structure allowed the snow waves to drifted away from the cloud bases and the interaction between the mesoscale and synoptic environment created near continuous true blizzard conditions in some areas.
The key equipment for chasing such snow squalls is:
1) Windproof/water proof clothing
2) Snow shovels, ice melting gear (propane torch is great), chains, tow rope, several bottles of washer fluid and two 10 or 15 gallon containers filled with fuel. Also bring 3 or 4 lighters.
3) Food, candles for warmth, box cutters, and tool box with tools
4) GPS (you need to know you exact location if stuck) and high quality street mapping software either for the GPS or the laptop + paper maps!!!
*** GET A LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS, GAS STATIONS AND FOOD***
5) Cell phone with charger!!! <- most important I would argue!
That is all you really need! The worst thing you can do is drive into a ditch in the 0 visibility and get stuck! If you do this and cannot get out, call 911 and let them know. Just about every emergency department will accept GPS coordinates. You will probably have to wait until conditions improve or plows are allowed back on the roads before you can get a tow or ride.
Do not leave your vehicle unless you are no more than a 5 minute walk from shelter (gas station, etc).
Also be aware of road closures, if the road is closed you are not getting help!!! That is certain! You could also be fined in most cases for disobeying local authorities if caught.
This type of stuff is usually a common scene in bad squalls! Pick roads which are generally straight with no bends, put one wheel on the shoulder if you have to and use it as a guide to separate pavement from the ditch.
If visibility drops to 0, drive straight, let your foot off the gas and do not brake. Avoid sudden wheel motions and watch for oncoming headlights. Keep the wheel straight!
When on busy routes, stay in the center lane. The traffic will usually occur in groups or blocks of vehicles. Stay away from these blocks at all cost! If you find yourself with a block of vehicles speed up and get out in front leaving a fair distance between yourself and the lead vehicle(s) or slow down and let the group pass you. This greatly reduces the chance of someone spinning out and hitting you, this also reduces the risk that you will be involved in a pileup.
Phone home often and give precise details.
BTW, the two images above were from some squalls in December of 04. The winds were about 50 - 55 mph, the temp was -8F (wind chill was near -40) and snow rates were peaking at around 4 inches per hour. The whiteouts were not the problem! I hit a deer on the way home and that kept me back 3 hours until I could get a tow out of the ditch and drive home (with no driver side headlight). My main concern was the temp and nightfall. Driving in 0 vis during the day is easy, doing that at night is a bad idea.
Another ENG news cameraman I know was chasing during similar conditions at night in 2005 and he found himself 4 miles down a snowmobile trail which he thought was still part of the highway! He called me on the phone and asked me to check the map. He encountered a snowmobiler on the trail who confirmed his fears LOL. Funny now, but I would hate to have to turn around on a snowmobile trail with a huge pickup truck!
ANOTHER key point to keep in mind is wet snow and signs! When I was chasing the October 12th storm effecting Buffalo and Ft.Erie, the big problem I ran into was that all the road signs were covered. I encountered many people going the wrong way on the highway and secondary streets. At times I was worried I may have been going the wrong direction but when I brushed off some signs I was relieved. The GPS never lied about what side of the road I was on fortunately! Some guy almost hit me going the wrong way on a one way exit ramp.
Chasing squalls can be really dangerous so be careful!
Warning from the squall event this weekend below--------------------
ENVIRONMENT CANADA HAS UPDATED A SEVERE WEATHER BULLETIN FOR
SOUTHERN ONTARIO AT 11:29 PM EST SUNDAY 4 FEBRUARY 2007.
A BLIZZARD WARNING IS CONTINUED FOR
SAUGEEN SHORES - KINCARDINE - SOUTHERN BRUCE COUNTY
BRUCE PENINSULA - SAUBLE BEACH - TOBERMORY
HANOVER - DUNDALK - SOUTHERN GREY COUNTY AND
OWEN SOUND - BLUE MOUNTAINS - NORTHERN GREY COUNTY.
LOCAL BLIZZARD CONDITIONS TONIGHT ESPECIALLY NEAR THE LAKE HURON SHORELINE AND OVER HIGHER GROUND.
THIS IS A WARNING THAT BLIZZARD CONDITIONS ARE IMMINENT OR OCCURRING IN THESE REGIONS. MONITOR WEATHER CONDITIONS..LISTEN FOR UPDATED STATEMENTS.
A SNOWSQUALL WARNING IS CONTINUED FOR
....
A WIND CHILL WARNING IS CONTINUED FOR
....
WIND CHILL VALUES OF MINUS 30 EXPECTED ACROSS ALL OF SOUTHERN ONTARIO TONIGHT AND VALUES NEAR MINUS 40 OVER PORTIONS OF EASTERN ONTARIO TONIGHT.
THIS IS A WARNING THAT EXTREME WIND CHILL CONDITIONS ARE IMMINENT OR OCCURRING IN THESE REGIONS. MONITOR WEATHER CONDITIONS..LISTEN FOR UPDATED STATEMENTS.
A WIND WARNING IS CONTINUED FOR
PICTON - SANDBANKS PARK.
LOCAL WHITEOUT CONDITIONS ARE LIKELY OVER PRINCE EDWARD COUNTY THIS AFTERNOON DUE TO SQUALLS AND HIGH WINDS.
THIS IS A WARNING THAT DAMAGING WINDS ARE IMMINENT OR OCCURRING IN THESE REGIONS. MONITOR WEATHER CONDITIONS..LISTEN FOR UPDATED STATEMENTS.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
==DISCUSSION==
EXTREMELY COLD ARCTIC AIR HAS FLOODED OVER THE GREAT LAKES BASIN.
A SNOW SQUALL OVER LAKE ONTARIO IS GRAZING PICTON - SANDBANKS PARK. FURTHER AMOUNTS OF UP TO 10 CENTIMETRES CAN BE EXPECTED TONIGHT BEFORE THE SQUALL DRIFTS SOUTHWARD. WINDS AS HIGH AS 70 GUSTING TO 90 KM/H ACCOMPANY THE SQUALLS GIVING WHITEOUT CONDITIONS AND NEAR BLIZZARD CONDITIONS.
THE WEST TO NORTHWESTERLY FLOW OFF LAKE HURON AND GEORGIAN BAY IS GENERATING NUMEROUS SNOWSQUALLS AFFECTING AREAS TO THE EAST OF GEORGIAN BAY AND LAKE HURON. THERE ARE TWO MAIN SNOWSQUALLS. ONE IS AFFECTING THE AREAS FROM WIARTON TO JUST NORTH OF WASAGA BEACH TO JUST WEST OF LINDSAY WITH LOCAL SNOWFALL RATES NEAR 5 CENTIMETRES PER HOUR LIKELY. THIS SQUALL IS BEGINNING TO SHIFT AND REORGANIZE ITSELF AS THE FLOW BEGINS TO SHIFT MORE NORTHWESTERLY. THE SECOND SNOWSQUALL IS COMING ONSHORE NEAR GODERICH WITH SNOWFALL RATES IN THE 2 TO 5 CENTIMETRES PER HOUR RANGE.
SNOW SQUALLS ARE EXPECTED TO INTENSIFY OVERNIGHT WITH SNOWFALL RATES INCREASING INTO THE 5 TO 10 CENTIMETRES PER HOUR RANGE. THE MAIN SNOW SQUALL WILL CONTINUE TO DRIFT SOUTHWARD TO AFFECT THE BARRIE AREA OVERNIGHT. SNOWFALL AMOUNTS IN THE 20 TO 40 CENTIMETRES RANGE CAN BE EXPECTED TONIGHT IN SOME LOCALITIES ALONG WITH BLIZZARD CONDITIONS AS THE MERCURY DROPS. STRONG WESTERLY WINDS AND VERY COLD TEMPERATURES WILL CONTINUE TO GIVE BLIZZARD CONDITIONS NEAR THE HEAVIEST SQUALLS AND ESPECIALLY IN THE ONSHORE FLOW OFF LAKE HURON.
EXTREME CAUTION IS ADVISED AS TRAVEL WILL BE VERY HAZARDOUS IN THE WARNED AREAS DUE TO LOCAL WHITEOUT AND BLIZZARD CONDITIONS IN FALLING AND BLOWING SNOW. ADDITIONAL BLIZZARD WARNINGS MAY BE ISSUED LATER TONIGHT OVER SOME LOCALITIES AS CONDITIONS WARRANT.
INCREASINGLY COLD AIR CONTINUES TO FLOOD ACROSS SOUTHERN AND EASTERN ONTARIO. LOW TEMPERATURES COMBINED WITH WESTERLY WINDS GUSTING TO 50 OR 60 KM/H WILL CAUSE WIND CHILL VALUES TO DROP TO NEAR MINUS 30 TONIGHT OVER ALL OF SOUTHERN ONTARIO. WIND CHILLS VALUES IN THE MINUS NEAR MINUS 40 CAN BE EXPECTED OVER MUCH OF EASTERN ONTARIO TONIGHT.
ENVIRONMENT CANADA WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS EXTREME WEATHER EVENT CLOSELY.
PLEASE REFER TO THE LATEST PUBLIC FORECASTS FOR FURTHER DETAILS.
http://www.vaughanweather.com/winter/02_05_07/070205144005.gif
http://www.vaughanweather.com/winter/02_05_07/WBI_site_cappi_single.gif
http://www.vaughanweather.com/winter/02_05_07/WKR_site_cappi_loop.gif
Last edited by a moderator:
Greg Stumpf
EF5
Lake effect snow is rarely wet, and typically has a very low liquid water content. But it does tend to stick to a lot of things. This is because the fine dry snow tends to be electrostatically charged and is very "adhesive".
This is from my 4 years experience with LES in Oswego NY while attending SUNY, and learning from the lake-effect snow guru, Robert Sykes.
Tom Stefanac
EF2
Very true, only the early season events tend to be wet. During the duration of the Buffalo squall in October, the temperature hovered around freezing at the sfc. The CTWL station indicated a 6:1 snow ratio, and KBUF indicated a 6:1 ratio until about 0700 Z where it varies between 8:1 and 10:1 but of course by then, most signs had a good 3 inches of accumulation of on both sides, the top and in some cases the bottom haha.
The snow ratios from these latest squalls appear to be anywhere from 12:1 to 15:1 across multiple stations. It is interesting; the stations on the fringe of many squalls had a lower ratio than those directly under. I assume it is from the wind breaking up the dendrites along the edges into irregulars or simply there being more hexagonals and columns.Last edited by a moderator:
Tom Stefanac
EF2
Here are some links I have had sent to me showing the accumulations in various locations from the lake effect snow.
Accuweather
Chris HaycoxAlexandre Aguiar
110 inches and couting:
N.Y. sees 110 inches of snow in 7 days
2007/2
By JOHN KEKIS, Associated Press Writer 15 minutes ago
PARISH, N.Y. - With more than 8 feet of snow already coating the ground, it wasn‘t good news for this winter-weary region when the blue sky turned gray Saturday, signaling another intense snow squall was about to dump some more.
Persistent bands of lake-effect snow squalls fed by moisture from Lake Ontario have been swinging up and down this part of central New York along the lake‘s eastern shore since last Sunday.
The National Weather Service said Parish — about 25 miles northeast of Syracuse — reached a milestone early Saturday with 100 inches of snow during the past seven days. Late Saturday, the total had risen to 110 inches. Unofficial reports pegged totals at 123 inches in Orwell and 131 in Redfield, but those measurements include snow from another storm a couple of days before the current weather system. All three towns are in Oswego County.
"That‘s all we need," Mike Avery said as he took a brief break from loading dump trucks with snow to be hauled to a pile outside town. "It‘s getting monotonous."
"You can‘t stop or you‘re done," said Dan Hojnacki, 23, of Syracuse, after he ground to a halt in a field. "I never got stuck until today, and I‘ve been snowmobiling for 10 years."
The state transportation department said 125 workers from elsewhere in the state had been sent in with snow equipment to help.
The hamlet of Hooker, near the boundaries of Jefferson, Lewis, and Oswego counties, holds the state‘s one-year record with 466.9 inches, about 39 feet, in the winter of 1976-77.
"Gosh, three weeks ago there was green on the ground. We got spoiled," Parish Mayor Leon Heagle said. "This just came fast. This is not normal. God, we can‘t catch a break. I feel like getting right in the car and driving south, but I‘d probably get in trouble."
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/National/2007/2/10/n.y._sees_110_inches_of_snow_in_7_days.html
Tom Stefanac
EF2
Some good... ugh decent video is starting to appear on the net.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAAx_H_dmZI <- pretty boring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NnZMahm1nw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMrOkD5kOnM <- really boring!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmNgQH2nm8 <- awesome timelapse!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aei0_fP6WdU <- video slideshow with cool video at 1:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLUE2ruP6sY <- Hamburg, NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2tcGE-fSI <- Trip to the store? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1N99WNTF_8 <- This is a good video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHz0hlvpODY <- decent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm-3GcPZaOM <- not too bad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHiKurzsws <- this one is pretty cool, some amazing stuff around 2:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATSmjlGIemc <- gas station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvF2S9mscdM <- more lake effect
I am sure I missed some video, so keep looking.
Marko Korosec
EF4
Some nice videos there, thanks Tom! Here is one impressive report from NWS in Buffalo:
PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...CORRECTED FOR FORMAT
SPOTTER REPORTS
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY
122 PM EST MON FEB 12 2007
THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 2 HOURS
FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION. APPRECIATION IS EXTENDED
TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE OBSERVERS...SKYWARN SPOTTERS
AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLE ON OUR
HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/BUFFALO
*** THESE ARE FINAL STORM TOTALS FOR THE EVENT FROM SATURDAY FEB 3
THROUGH THIS MORNING FEB 12 WHEN THE EVENT ENDED. ***
** REVISED REDFIELD FINAL TOTAL 141 INCHES....DAILY TOTALS WERE AS
FOLLOWS...
FEB 3...18 INCHES
FEB 4... 7 INCHES
FEB 5...20 INCHES
FEB 6...15 INCHES
FEB 7...28 INCHES
FEB 8...23 INCHES
FEB 9... 6 INCHES
FEB 10..14 INCHES
FEB 11.. 3 INCHES
FEB 12.. 7 INCHES
********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************
NEW YORK
...OSWEGO COUNTY...
REDFIELD 141.0
PARISH 121.0
MEXICO 106.0
...LEWIS COUNTY...
NORTH OSCEOLA 106.0
http://kamala.cod.edu/ny/latest.nous41.KBUF.html
That is just amazing!B Ozanne
EF5
It's official....no records were broken during this storm. Okay, maybe some local records were broken, but as far as 24 hour or 7 day totals, not even close.
Impressive, but not record breaking.Terry Kern
EF0
One thing that gets me is, they can clear the roads when 10 feet of snow has fallen up there, yet they can't clear an inch or two of snow when it falls here in Norman.Similar threads
