ICT to get Dual Pol. radar

[Lanny Dean]

Looks like ICT will be upgrading to dual polarization next year.
I couldn't find any notes through AMS or at least that chapter but it is on the KAKE website.

http://www.kake.com/weather/headlines/70285647.html

 

[Shane Adams]

This is really cool. In 1993, when the NEXRAD Doppler network was installed, I wasn't chasing yet. But now I get to be a part of history as the next generation of radar improvement comes to life over the next few seasons. I'm excited to see how rapidly and accurately this new radar scans storms.

 

[rdale]

The Normal test bed radar has it now... Sample products are supposed to be available next month, with live data starting to be available publicly in January.

Wichita is next on the beta list, scheduled for June 2010, then national deployment starts in October 2010 (it won't be fast though.) These dates are from the summer update though, and I've heard that some tech issues have pushed the exact months back some.

Morehead City (KMHX) – July 2010
Ft. Drum (KTYX) – August 2010
Chicago (KLOT) – August 2010
South Kauai (PHKI) – November 2010
Yuma (KYUX) – January 2011
Kamuela (PHKM) – January 2011

 

[Damon Scott Hynes]

South Kauai (PHKI) – November 2010

Kamuela (PHKM) – January 2011

Hawai`i gets two? What are they going to scan?

 

[Jason Foster]

Hawai`i gets two? What are they going to scan?

I'm thinking it may be in part for tropical activity. But there is a good chance it's not weather related as to why who gets what and when. Could easily just be a logistics and supplier issue. Could be staffing and knowledge base, etc.
After my CAD project is done this evening, I'll likely look in to it more for a blog.

If the Morehead City, NC is the closest to me, I might have to take a trip shortly after install to see it in person and report on it.

 

[D. Hayes]

Have there been any examples on how this improvement will look on our end?

 

[Chris Nuttall]

For starters, there will be 4 new base products that everyone will have to learn to interpret.

(1) Differential Reflectivity
(2) Correlation Coefficient
(3) Linear Depolarization Ratio
(4) Specific Differential Phase

Since dual-pol radars send out vertically and horizontally polarized beams, we'll be able to determine the shape of a target through the above mentioned products. That will let us better determine precipitation type. For example, hail is generally more spherical in shape whereas raindrops are more oblong, or teardrop-shaped. There will also be some benefits regarding additional reduction of anomalous propagation and the study of returns from biological returns (birds, insects and bats).

 

[Jim Zandonai]

This should be cool..once I figure out how to interpret it and then hopefully once this comes into the mainstream we can move into phased Array over the next ten years provided funds remain available.
I remember the local NWS was excited when we got Kavouras 6 color radar in the 80s on a WSR-74. Now almost 25 years later we are getting dual pole and soon hopefully phased array. Wow.

 

[Jordan Bell]

This is great, cant wait till all NWS have them. One question though...Does anyone know if these radars still put out Level 3 data? I have GRLevel 3 and want to continue using i?

 

[rdale]

Nothing will change - it's just new products that will be added. And I'm not sure they'll be added to Level III.

Some older training is available at http://www.wdtb.noaa.gov/modules/dualpol/ which is worth looking over. They'll update it as the operational release gets closer.

 

[jordan.hamilton]

From my limited understanding of dual-pol radar I really do not see it having much of an effect on the chaser community, unless you are debating about core punching a storm where it would be handy for hail size. I am also under the impression that this is more like an "update" for the current 88d's. I believe that the NWS offices will be given a "kit" that will be installed on the current radar by subcontractors. Someone correct me if I am wrong but this was how it was explained to me at last years' National Weather Workshop in Norman.

 

[rdale]

From my limited understanding of dual-pol radar I really do not see it having much of an effect on the chaser community

I disagree. Seeing 88D gatetogate rotation is one thing - seeing dualpol display of debris aloft in a circulation should tell you something else

I am also under the impression that this is more like an "update" for the current 88d's.

Correct, it's not a new radar site. Baron Services developed an add-on that basically replaces the guts of the system and outputs the DP data.

http://baronservices.com/news_pdf/Baron-Installs-First-NWS-NEXRAD-Upgrade-07-14-09.pdf

 

[jordan.hamilton]

I disagree. Seeing 88D gatetogate rotation is one thing - seeing dualpol display of debris aloft in a circulation should tell you something else

You are right, this had completely slipped my mind.

 

[Charles Kuster]

This will be a very nice upgrade to the current radars. The shape (and therefore type) of the hydrometeor will be able to be determined and radar rainfall estimates should improve. As of now, when high reflectivity values are seen, one cannot be sure if heavy rain or hail exists in that region. With dual-polarimetric radar we will be able to combine dBZ and ZDR (differential reflectivity) values to determine what type of precip is occurring.

Some quick notes on using ZDR and dBZ values:

* High dBZ and positive (1-4dB) ZDR: large raindrops
* High dBZ and ZDR near zero: hail
* Low dBZ (5-25) and ZDR near zero: snow or drizzle
* ~20-40 dBZ and negative (-.3 to ~-1.5dB) ZDR: conical graupel or vertically oriented ice particles.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

I am also under the impression that this is more like an "update" for the current 88d's.

In addition, pay attention to the upgrade schedules as they are released if you rely heavily on real-time radar for chasing. For each upgrade, that radar site will be offline for 2-3 weeks.