Hurricane spawned tornadoes, hard to resist

[tom hanlon]

Hindsight is 20/20 but last night I said to myself " Winston Salem NC, I could be there in 6 hours, lots of dry air entrainment in Ivan, could be some tornadoes down there". I looked at the map and percent forest cover for the region and decided against it. Besides by 4 AM SE Ohio was beginning to get some rain so I thought again and stayed home.

Of course the morning started with tornadoes an hour or so from my target, that only happens when you stay home. Watching radar it looked chaseable over there, some clearing. Then the evening brings tons of tornadoes, E Virgina is chaseable, well sort of.

I have heard that hurricane spawned tornadoes are messy, rain wrapped dangerous and the like. Well with probably 100 hurricane tornadoes occuring on my side of the country in two weeks time, I am beginning to think that the bias against hurricane tornadoes is just high plains, supercell snobbery <grin>

Seriously though, why don't we take these more seriously as a chase opportunity ? I stayed home and watched a serious flood while I could have been out chasing supercells. How messy is it out there ? Looked like a clearly defined line of cells when I saw it on radar.

 

[Bill Hark]

I just returned from chasing hurricane-spawned tornadoes in Virginia. Although I only saw some nice wall clouds, many tornadoes were photographed and video taped by both locals and chasers. These had nice contrast. Although not as long-lived as some of the Plains tornadoes, these tornadoes were still worth chasing. The amazing video is still coming in.

Bill Hark

 

[Mike Peregrine]

My brother from Greensboro reports quite a wild ride today ... multiple tornadoes on the Piedmont leaving quite a swath in addition to the ridiculous damage from the flooding to the west, primarily over the mountains. Tornadoes were reported near Triad Regional and to the north of the Triad near Eden last I heard (still haven't heard how many were actually verified today) - he was on his way to get his camera as I spoke to him. He usually only gets damage shots on the Piedmont, however ... chasing in that jungle is downright tough, not to mention the fact that the tornadoes are in the right front of a major tropical system, and just not as much fun as a supe. He still does it occasionally, though -

The rainfall from these hurricanes is starting to get beyond ridiculous. My mom is flying down there for the weekend tomorrow morning - hopefully they can get down to the beach okay -

 

[Larry J. Kosch]

Ivan tied for Second

I understand that Ivan is tied for second in the number of tornadoes spawned since its landfall. I checked the NWS Storm Reports and this is what I found out: 09/15/04 - 29 tornadoes, 7 fatals, 15 injuries; 09/16/04 - 22 tornadoes, 1 fatal, 1 injuries; 09/17/04, 55 tornadoes, 0 deaths, 0 injuries. Thats a confirmed total of 106 in three days with 8 fatals and 16 injured being reported. I wondered which hurricane had the top spot in number of tornadoes spawned??

p.s. today no tornadoes as of 1100 EDT. Thank God!!

 

[Thomas Loades]

I think it's still 1967's Beulah, with between 115 and 147 tornadoes spawned, mainly in central/eastern TX.

 

[Shane Adams]

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

 

[Scott Currens]

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

I can’t imagine tornado not hitting something in that part of the county. The east overcrowded with people and trees. Sure there are farms and fields but they are usually lined with trees. That's why tornadoes rated F0 or F1 in the east are truly weak ones.

Scott Currens

 

[Bill Hark]

Shane wrote:

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

Actually, there was a lot of video (and clear still images) of these tornadoes that were broadcast on local media. There were even chasers on those storms (ones who had better luck than I). Visibility was generally good. With higher population, there are more people who are trained spotters and can report obvious tornadoes. Also, between the many trees and structures, any brief tornado would leave a mark. Of course, many damage paths would have to be confirmed by the NWS today.

Interestingly, these storms didn't seen to produce a lot of straightline wind, only tornadoes. Below is a link to the D.C. NBC station with some nice images. I saw some video yesterday of a house getting chewed up and debris flying from northern Va on the local NBC station that was doing the FOX 10PM local news.


http://www.nbc4.com/weather/3738471/detail.html


Bill Hark
[/quote]

 

[mikegeukes]

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

The Southeast and Mid-Atlantic States are highly populated.
Listed are a few states that reported tornadoes from Ivan, also
I added a few select Midwest and Plains states for comparison
purposes, also important is to list the persons per square mile.

For example: Texas has 22,118,509 people, but only 79.6 persons
per square mile, while Maryland 5,508,909 and has 541.0 persons
per square mile, making it more densely populated than Texas.

POPULATION 2003 ESTIMATES:
17,019,068 Florida
12,365,455 Pennsylvania
8,684,715 Georgia
8,407,248 North Carolina
7,386,330 Virginia
5,508,909 Maryland
4,500,752 Alabama
4,147,152 South Carolina

22,118,509 Texas
5,704,484 Missouri
5,059,375 Minnesota
3,511,532 Oklahoma
2,944,062 Iowa
2,723,507 Kansas
1,739,291 Nebraska
764,309 South Dakota
633,837 North Dakota

PERSONS PER SQUARE MILE (2000)
541.9 Maryland
296.4 Florida
274.0 Pennsylvania
178.8 Viriginia
165.2 North Catolina
141.4 Georgia
133.2 South Carolina
087.6 Alabama

081.2 Missouri
079.6 Texas
061.8 Minnesota
052.4 Iowa
050.3 Oklahoma
041.5 Colorado
032.9 Kansas
022.3 Nebraska
009.9 South Dakota
009.3 North Dakota

Mike

 

[mikegeukes]

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

Plenty of forests in the states that had tornadoes from Ivan.

71% of Alabama is forested.
66% of Georgia is forested.
65% of South Carolina is forested.
62% of Virginia is forested.
59% of North Carolina is forested.
58% of Pennsylvania is forested,
47% of Florida is forested. (the panhandle of FL, figures would be higher than this)
41% of Maryland is forested

Mike.

 

[Glen Romine]

I'm still wondering how they confirm all these tornadoes without video. Unless they all hit something, which is extremely unlikely.

Probably the same way they did so prior to the "camcorder era". If anything, tornadoes are probably under-reported in these parts of the country, simply because some undoubtedly occur in rural areas where terrain and vegetation make them difficult to be seen by anyone. So long as they get reported - then the local EM will look over the report site for damage.

I know it is tempting to think that storm chasers are critical in the tornado reporting and verification process - but I think this is not the case in general. Spotter networks have been around much longer, and still are the dominant reporting system outside of the plains (where even a gustnado probably gets a dozen 911 calls).

Glen