How rare are double tornadoes?

[Rob Strunk]

I understand that double tornadoes are fairly rare. I don't really mean multiple vortex tornadoes. I have seen videos of one large tornado with satellite tornadoes. That isn't what I'm asking about. I am asking about actual double tornadoes. After seeing the picture of the double twisters at Elkhart Indiana on the Palm Sunday outbreak, I am very curious, has this type of double tornado ever been captured on video or even still shots otherwise? I can't seem to find any others that even come close to rivaling that tornado. That has to be the most intimidating tornado picture I have ever seen. I'd like to see other pictures or video of similar events if they are available.

 

[MatthewCarman]

I think the most tornadoes ever seen at one time is six but I don't remember where I read that from. There has been video I believe of double vortices on the ground at the same time in Texas and I know of an old video of one from Iowa but I can't find that video anymore. On April 13, 2006 there 3 confirmed tornadoes on the ground at the same time near Muscatine. Warren Faidley has a good picture of double vortices on the ground near Dimmitt, Texas in June of 1995 but they were weak. On April 11, 1965 James R. Weyer took the only photograph authenticated by experts of luminous tornadoes. (Unless that has changed since 2003) The two tornadoes were on the ground at the same time near Toledo, Ohio. He was poking his head out of his bathroom window to take a picture of lightning and did not see the tornadoes until the film was developed. Here is the picture: http://books.google.com/books?id=S1MEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=James+R.Weyer&source=bl&ots=i9wwQnEAvt&sig=yvp8Nb0HJ1kUWvbRWfuZYy21AEg&hl=en&ei=Zy2wS-v9IYfENpHO7bQO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=James%20R.Weyer&f=false These tornadoes occurred on the same day as the Palm Sunday tornadoes. Some scientists believe "ball lightning" is associated with luminous tornadoes.

 

[Skip Talbot]

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/images/tornado-palmsunday04-11-1965.jpg

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that shot has always looked to me more like a big multi vortex wedge, than two distinct tornadoes under the same mesocyclone or tornado cyclone. The shot is extremely impressive, but it seams to me that this was a fleeting glimpse of a very dynamic tornado, that could have filled into one solid wedge moments later or broken into even more sub vortices. I've seen similar videos of wedges where it briefly looks like multiple tornadoes, but you can see they are all part of one large tornado and the condensation funnel usually fills in later. I'm not saying "double tornadoes" don't happen as there are dozens of different configurations of tornadoes, but that Palm Sunday tornado looks to me like one large wedge.

 

[Andrew Butler]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for but it's the first thing that came to mind:


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[Danny Neal]

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/images/tornado-palmsunday04-11-1965.jpg

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that shot has always looked to me more like a big multi vortex wedge, than two distinct tornadoes under the same mesocyclone or tornado cyclone. The shot is extremely impressive, but it seams to me that this was a fleeting glimpse of a very dynamic tornado, that could have filled into one solid wedge moments later or broken into even more sub vortices. I've seen similar videos of wedges where it briefly looks like multiple tornadoes, but you can see they are all part of one large tornado and the condensation funnel usually fills in later. I'm not saying "double tornadoes" don't happen as there are dozens of different configurations of tornadoes, but that Palm Sunday tornado looks to me like one large wedge.

I read this somewhere as well. I was going to post this a few hours ago but couldn't find the scientific/visual evidence to dispute it. I believe it was in a book I have on the event. Their rationalization was, as you said, that it was a monster wedge that at fleeting moments broke into a dramatic multi vortex looking dual "double" tornado appearance.

 

[Rob Strunk]

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/images/tornado-palmsunday04-11-1965.jpg

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that shot has always looked to me more like a big multi vortex wedge, than two distinct tornadoes under the same mesocyclone or tornado cyclone. The shot is extremely impressive, but it seams to me that this was a fleeting glimpse of a very dynamic tornado, that could have filled into one solid wedge moments later or broken into even more sub vortices. I've seen similar videos of wedges where it briefly looks like multiple tornadoes, but you can see they are all part of one large tornado and the condensation funnel usually fills in later. I'm not saying "double tornadoes" don't happen as there are dozens of different configurations of tornadoes, but that Palm Sunday tornado looks to me like one large wedge.

You know, I never really thought about that, but it does make sense. Maybe you're right. That could have been a snapshot of what that tornado looked like for just a short time. I don't know. I just know that every time I look at that picture, it looks frightening. That was my question though, I guess. Is there any such tornadoes that would be two wedges, right next to each other like that.

Andrew Butler - Thanks for that video. That wasn't exactly what I was talking about, but that was very neat to watch. You could see as soon as the two tornadoes in that video "merged" the one dissipated. In the Elkhart Indiana picture, it "looks" like two wedge tornadoes co-existing and running side by side.

Also, the picture that was posted about the Toledo twin tornadoes was new to me as well. Very neat. That is basically what I'm looking for. That appears to be two different tornadoes co-existing side by side as well.

 

[Wesley Luginbyhl]

I was extremely lucky on May 5 2007 while cutting across the countryside to see this double tornado. It was right on the border of Kiowa, Pratt, and Edwards county. It started with the single tornado, then the smaller needle touched behind the larger funnel and rotated around the meso to be side by side. It quickly moved into the rain, but was definitely the tornado of the day for me.

Video below is of the tornado. It is very shaky as I had others in my car running the camera for me this day.

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[Chris Carter]

I read this somewhere as well. I was going to post this a few hours ago but couldn't find the scientific/visual evidence to dispute it. I believe it was in a book I have on the event. Their rationalization was, as you said, that it was a monster wedge that at fleeting moments broke into a dramatic multi vortex looking dual "double" tornado appearance.

Here is a thought that came to mind. If these two tornadoes were apart of larger wedge that was rotating, wouldn't they be rotating around each other, pretty much in sync with the wedge rotation itself?

That to me is the distinguishing factor between two tornadoes and a multi vortex tornado. In my experience of chasing and seeing photography from other people, a multi-vortex tornado is a large tornado with several smaller satellite tornadoes that rotate around it.

Didn't the Greensburg tornado have 3 tornadoes at once? The main wedge and the two smaller ones that were stationary (cyclonic and anticyclonic)?

 

[Lou Ruh]

One event that I was lucky enough to see was the Stratford, TX storm on May 15, 2003 . This was talked about in this thread ... http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20746 . There are a lot of pictures/videos around of that event (some links are included in that thread) as well as some good DOW analysis.

 

[cedwards]

One event that comes to mind is May 3, 1999

Other days, I have seen two on the ground at the same time include Gainsville, TX May 24, 1994

Conway Springs, May 29, 2004
http://www.cloud9videos.com/ConwaySprings.php
Actually several times that day, there were at least 2 on the ground at one time.

Those are just times that come to mind right now.


It is not rare at all for there to be two tornadoes on the ground on the same storm.

 

[Bob Hartig]

Re the Elkhart twin-funnel, you'll find a great analysis on pages 43-46 of Theodore Fujita's Monthly Weather Review article, "Palm Sunday Tornadoes of April 11, 1965." The analysis includes the entire six-photo sequence shot by press photographer Paul Huffman, plus a graphic by Fujita depicting the evolution of the double-structure. The whole process from vortex breakdown back to a single funnel took about a minute.

Reports suggest that multiple funnels were rather common that day. I know of two locals in the Elkhart area who have insisted that "The Twins" were in fact the tornado that hit Dunlap an hour later. That's not the case; Huffman is an extremely credible eyewitness, and what few landmarks still remain in the area bear out his account. However, I think it's probable that the even larger Dunlap wedge took on some kind of multiple vortex structure that caused people to insist it was "The Twins."

ADDENDUM: I'll add, the Elkhart (actually, the Midway) twin funnels formed out of a single tornado cyclone and were separated by just a couple hundred feet. They weren't the product of separate circulations, and they weren't a big-tornado/satellite combination.

 

[Tony Laubach]

I've seen it on a few occasions...

As Charles said, multiple times on May 29, 2004..

May 23, 2008 south of Quinter, KS..

May 29, 2008 near Glen Elder... think you could make a case for this a few times...

Then last year on April 26, the handoff between tornadoes left both on the ground at the same time for a short amount of time..

A few days later on April 29 east of Plainview, TX, we had a pair on the ground for quite a while.

 

[Jason Persoff]

I think Tony's and Charles' posts above pretty much nail that. And those are terrific examples to boot.

Just to add a couple of observations too. On May 24, 2004, along the KS/NE borders, I taped simultaneous landspouts (x2) and tornados (x2). These 4 vortices occurred simultaneously with me happily hanging out in between them all. With me on that road was Eric Nguyen--it was one of the last times I got to chase with him. It was an amazing day.

I'd note that on May 29, 2004, Bill Hark and I were surrounded by anticyclonic vortices about a large tornadic mesocyclone in Jamestown, KS. These looked like simultaneous tornadoes, but were definitely well apart from the parent mesocyclone. Bill has a particularly awesome video of a couple of them on his site.

Satellite tornadoes are also common phenomena. As Tony mentions, the Quinter II tornado from 2008 had a well demarkated satellite vortex.

Last: in the front range of Colorado about the DCVZ, it is not uncommon to see multiple landspouts (nonmesocyclone tornados) simultaneously. By convention, this phenomenon is also described in waterspout families with a particularly amazing example (source not known by me) in the Adriatic Sea:

http://www.tornado-pictures.net/waterspouttornado.jpg

And separately here:

http://www.valdosta.edu/~jisoady/wea00312.jpg

 

[Lanny Dean]

Here is a thought that came to mind. If these two tornadoes were apart of larger wedge that was rotating, wouldn't they be rotating around each other, pretty much in sync with the wedge rotation itself?

My answer would be yes.

That to me is the distinguishing factor between two tornadoes and a multi vortex tornado. In my experience of chasing and seeing photography from other people, a multi-vortex tornado is a large tornado with several smaller satellite tornadoes that rotate around it.

Agian, your assumtion is correct. The original question was not regarding sat. tornadoes or even multi-vortex tornadoes.

Didn't the Greensburg tornado have 3 tornadoes at once? The main wedge and the two smaller ones that were stationary (cyclonic and anticyclonic)?

The Greensburg tornado at one time had 4 tornadoes on the ground at once, at least from my vantage point. While I believe that one of them was anticyclonic I do not believe that the other 2 or 3 that I saw at that particular moment were. Most of the smaller tornadoes were revolving around the parent circulation on the outer edge of the collar cloud cyclonicly. Much like the 5-3-99 event.

As far as the "Holy Grail" of storm chasing I have filmed it only 2 times in 20 years. Once during the May 29 2004 Harper county KS event (see link attached near 0:21 in). And then again on 3-28-07. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NtOrMcuSxY
Both of these tornadoes were from 2 different supercells that were very close to each other.

When I say "Holy Grail" I am not refering to sat tornadoes or the like. God knows we have all seen many of those, I am refering to 2 totally seperate tornadoes from different mesos/supercells coming in very close range/contact with another. If I understand his question correctly I think that is what he is asking.

 

[Rob Strunk]

Very informative. Thank you all who helped me with this question.

 

[Skip Talbot]

That's a video capture from Jerry Funfsinn's 3/28/07 footage, the same tornadoes Lanny linked to. The Bird City wedge is on the left. The tornado on the right was part of a different circulation and might have even been an anticyclonic tornado on the opposite end of the RFD gust front. I suggest this as the tornado in my avatar was also anticyclonic and from the same supercell.

I don't know how realistic it would be to have two independently moving wedges closer to each other than the diameter of either wedge. The parent circulations would overlap and probably just merge.

 

[Chris Allington]

May 5th, 2007 on the NE/SD border near Yankton, SD

EDIT: Later the same day.

 

[Kevin Walters]

On 5/27/1995 two tornadoes that were about two or three miles apart crossed I-80 in West central Iowa. The tornadoes followed similar paths and appeared to be in a mature stage simultaneously.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

That's a video capture from Jerry Funfsinn's 3/28/07 footage, the same tornadoes Lanny linked to. The Bird City wedge is on the left.

Glad to see this storm mentioned. As I read through page one, I kept thinking about this storm...That's actually after the tornadoes (at least the one of the left) had shrunk a good deal...I also didn't know that red tornado earlier in the evening was anti-cyclonic, I must have still been to wrapped up in the initial tornado to be paying close enough attention...Interesting!!

 

[Lanny Dean]

That's a video capture from Jerry Funfsinn's 3/28/07 footage, the same tornadoes Lanny linked to. The Bird City wedge is on the left. The tornado on the right was part of a different circulation and might have even been an anticyclonic tornado on the opposite end of the RFD gust front. I suggest this as the tornado in my avatar was also anticyclonic and from the same supercell.

I don't know how realistic it would be to have two independently moving wedges closer to each other than the diameter of either wedge. The parent circulations would overlap and probably just merge.

No doubt in my mind this is what happens. I have seen it on both occassions and was lucky enough to have been very close to both tornadoes (a few hundred yards) during the process.

Skip,
I am not honestly sure that was the case for that cell/tornado. Unless we are talking about a different one. I remember doing my phoner with Jay and seeing the "other" tornado with a different supercell to the NNW of my location. I was sitting about 5 miles north of Edison on that county road to the east of where you were parked next to me. That particular tornado was clearly from the other supercell NNW of Goodland.

The cell I am refering to blew up sw of Goodland and moved more to the due north. It produced its first tornado 10-15 minutes or so after the Edison snake. It morphed into a small wedge and in the video you can hear me telling Jay that "we have 2 wedge tornadoes on the ground at the same time within 8-10 miles of each other"
I think that cell and tornado may have merged or been "eaten" by the Bird City wedge and I am wondering if this is where you and Jerry assume that the above tornado developed on the front side of the RFD???

 

[Skip Talbot]

Skip,
I am not honestly sure that was the case for that cell/tornado. Unless we are talking about a different one. I remember doing my phoner with Jay and seeing the "other" tornado with a different supercell to the NNW of my location. I was sitting about 5 miles north of Edison on that county road to the east of where you were parked next to me. That particular tornado was clearly from the other supercell NNW of Goodland.

The cell I am refering to blew up sw of Goodland and moved more to the due north. It produced its first tornado 10-15 minutes or so after the Edison snake. It morphed into a small wedge and in the video you can hear me telling Jay that "we have 2 wedge tornadoes on the ground at the same time within 8-10 miles of each other"
I think that cell and tornado may have merged or been "eaten" by the Bird City wedge and I am wondering if this is where you and Jerry assume that the above tornado developed on the front side of the RFD???

After we saw our first tornado south of Goodland, Jerry and I tracked the same supercell for the remainder of the night. We were parked right next to you for the tornado pictured in my avatar. Here's the radar and our GPS location at that time:
http://skip.cc/chase/070328/radar/KGLD07032849.png

That supercell tracked north towards Bird City and produced three more tornadoes that we could observe. This one minutes after that one looking due north:
http://skip.cc/chase/070328/radar/KGLD07032851.png

And then finally the Bird City wedge and adjacent tornado. The Bird City wedge was on the ground for over a half hour but that other tornado only a few minutes. Here's the radar and our GPS position at about the time of the simultaneous tornadoes:
http://skip.cc/chase/070328/radar/KGLD07032856.png

The Bird City wedge was located right at the tip of that hook to our NNW. We were looking North so the other tornado was off to the east maybe a mile or two. I believe it was either on the opposite edge of that hook echo, or a little bit towards that 15 dbz return next to the hook. That weak return might be part of the RFD gust front extending away from the hook, or possibly part of the supercell's flanking line. I believe this other tornado occured along that gust front or flanking line, but on the same supercell. That supercell stayed discrete the entire time we watched it. I didn't note any mergers until it was well north of Bird City, almost to Nebraska, and long after we stopped tracking it.

Here's a radar animation of the night including our GPS position:
http://skip.cc/chase/070328/KGLD070328.gif

And all of the frames:
http://skip.cc/chase/070328/radar/

 

[Lanny Dean]

Skip, thanks for posting the radar links...the one I am interested in and refering to is posted below. I will try to pull up some video in the next few days.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/staff/landolt/2007mar28/

The tornadic sup just north of the KS one I was on had twin wedges as well. I was driving during that part and only got stuff after they were merged. That link above shows the "twins" sequence well though. Justin Walker had them too but I see his site is down. As did Chris Rozoff and Matt Kassawara...but hey...no site there anymore either. I thought Chris, Matt, and Justin's showed them both as wedges better. Interesting more than one storm was doing that the same day.

Looking at Skip's video the one I posted in Nebraska looks like it was doing it about the same time as the KS one was...or just a bit before I guess....only about 2 counties to the north.


Want rare, try that video from I think it was Pierce Nebraska in like 1994 or something on one of the TVC videos. Two funnels with the same shape and the tips of them curving around and going into one another. Like if you took your fingers and stuck them in a chineese finger trap. That still blows my mind, just wish the video continued on.

 

[Rob Strunk]

You are all very helpful. As a brand new person to this site, I certainly appreciate it.

 

[Jeff Duda]

6 landspouts on the ground at the same time near Lazbuddie, TX on 4 June 1995:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0JrdIUw80&feature=player_embedded