HD camcorders

[Hank Baker]

I am about to buy a HD camcorder. I have in narrowed down to Sony FX7, Sony FX1, or Canon XH A1. Anyone out there have any experience with these in the field shooting weather. Please dont post me a link to reviews or opinions. I know all those. I need to know from people shooting in low light, how does CMOS compare to CCD when shooting lightning etc. I need suggestion/opinions from chasers not wedding video shooters.

I have looked at the HC1, owned one last year and sold it because the season was so slow. I think I want something in the prosumer or pro model.

I know Tim, and Roger and Charles have been shooting HD, any opinions/experience guys? The FX7 is CMOS, the older FX1 is CCD and larger chips.

 

[Tim Samaras]

Hello Hank,

I have no experience with the CMOS imagers, so I'll leave that up to somebody else to comment on.

I think that the FX1 is a great camcorder-this will be my third full season with it, and I'm very pleased with its performance so far.

For those who know me, I enjoy having the best instrument to capture the highest resolution possible (within financial reason, of course). I have been able to see quite a bit more detail in cloud tags/debris for photogrammetric purposes over SD. I will never go back to SD. Horrible in comparison.

Good luck!

Tim

 

[cedwards]

I love the FX1. It it not a point and shoot camera, so you do have to get to know the camera and how to adjust the settings. It performs well in low light. (better than any other camera I have had) It does capture detail that sd will never see. I was reviewing video from the Mclean tornado on Feb 23rd and could see nice detail of motion in the funnel and wisps of condensation coming off the ground. SD would never show those like that.

I was a little disappointed in the compression of the video. If there is a quick flash of lighting, it may look ok on video, but you cannot get a clean still capture, It will be really blocky around the bolt. I have gotten a few clean stills from lighting that lingers for a little while.

I also have the HC3. if it is even getting close to sunset, I put it away. It is ok in the daylight, but is horrible in low-light. the FX1 blows it away.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

You probably already know about it but if not the HC5 is out and gets a 2 lux rating and is much cheaper. That's an even lower rating than the FX1. I wish there were some reviews out on it. Maybe camcorderinfo has one out or is getting closer.

 

[Mark Sefried]

One of these days I will get an hd camcorder, but for now my Sony DCR-HC90 works great. I did find one non professional review on amazon.com about it and this is what they said:

"Good design, but I was disappointed with picture quality. Not as sharp as HD content is supposed to be, just a bit better than a DVD. Noticeable noise in low light conditions. The 2.1 megapixel matrix is obviously not sufficient. HDR-HC7 makes a better choice, but I haven't tried it yet."


The comment about the noticeable grain in low light worries me.

 

[Andrew Gunneson]

I know it's not on your list but Mike kind of hit on it. I just ordered the Sony HDR-HC7 last night and it'll be here on Wednesday.

I'll try to come back here and give what I think about it. However, I'm not all that saavy in the video department and my first and only other camcorder is an old Hi8 Sony CCD-TRV328.

 

[Esa Tuunanen]

I've been myself also checking some of these newer HD camcorders (consumer models) for near 100% propable two week vacation to tornado alley in May.
All manufacturers just seem to be overeager to push their PR BS terms to everywhere but then finding sample videos is about impossible. Here's only HDR-HC7 sample videos I've found:
http://hdr-hc7.info/video.html


Telling which one, CCD or CMOS is better is impossible. There's so much other variables, technically CCD is supposed to have some advantages but CMOS can be made in same production lines as most of microchips making it cheaper and propably meaning that production processes are much better tweaked. Other thing is size of sensor, then there's quality of ADC electronics etc. Like in digicams only way for telling real performance is reading reviews and looking samples.

I will never go back to SD. Horrible in comparison.

Horrible is understatement. SD is craptacular!

 

[Michael Laca]

I actually got the HDR-HC7 a couple of weeks ago and I am extremely impressed. I haven't done an extensive amount of testing yet but, from what I've seen, its low-light capabilities are on par, or better, than any previous video camera I've owned. The daytime results are absolutely stunning, and I'm totally with Tim on this, once you've shot in HD, you'll never go back. The 6.3mm CMOS on the HC7 is rated at 3.2 megapixels and, even though the FX1 has a higher gross pixel count (1120K x 3 CCDs), the HC7 produces a higher "Actual Video" pixel count than even the FX1...

(from the Sony Style website's spec comparison)...

Gross Pixel Count:
FX1: 3-1/3" 16:9 Advanced HADâ„¢ CCD Imagers 1,120K Pixels Gross
HC7: 1-2.9" 3200K Gross Pixels ClearVidâ„¢ CMOS Sensor

Actual Video Pixel Count:
FX1: Video Actual: 1070K Pixels
HC7: Video Actual: 2280K Pixels (16:9), 1710K Pixels (4:3)

Sony also makes a couple of great "Sports Pack" water-resistant cases that work nicely with the HC# models, for high precipitation and/or other "wet" scenarios.

Obviously, the FX1 provides a lot more control and is a great "prosumer" investment (I would love to have one if my budget permitted), but the HC7 is a great alternative with a more palatable price tag.

-=Michael Laca=-

 

[scott r currens]

I upgraded from a VX2100 to a FX1 a year ago. I will never go back to SD video even though I don't own an HDTV. The few times I have seen my video on an HDTV was enough to convince me, the detail is awesome. IMO the FX1 outperforms the VX2100 every situation except very low light. The Canon XH A1 may be a fantastic camcorder but if it doesn't have an infinity lock, I wouldn't even consider it an option. For some reason Canon hates infinity locks?

The only significant problem I have with the FX1 is its massive size. Because it is a lot smaller think the FX7 would be a better fit for someone that shoots both video and stills. For this reason I would trade my FX1 for an FX7 if I had the option.

Mike Hollingshead wrote:

You probably already know about it but if not the HC5 is out and gets a 2 lux rating and is much cheaper. That's an even lower rating than the FX1. I wish there were some reviews out on it. Maybe camcorderinfo has one out or is getting closer.

If that lux rating is true the HC5 will be a best seller among storm chasers. I'm not sure I believe a 1/3" CMOS Sensor can give you a 2 lux rating.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The FX1 could do better with nighttime lightning as there is a lot of artifacting due to the HDV compression. The codec can't keep up if most or all of the pixels in the frame change - which happens with all night strikes. However, you can't really see the artifacting during playback unless you're face is pressed up against the screen. It is most evident in screen captures.

It does excellent with daytime lightning, though. Here is an example:

http://hdweathervideo.com/samples/hd-ohl-110805a2.jpg

Low light shooting at night is more of a problem. I still use my VX2100 for night shoots because I'd rather have clear, bright SD video than dark HD video.

Well-lit pictures look awesome. Here are a couple clips shot with the FX1. I encoded these in 700x394 WMV, so they aren't full-screen HD (that would be too impractical to post online).

http://wvlightning.com/blog/march1307b.shtml
http://wvlightning.com/2007/march3waves.wmv

As for the FX7, I believe it is not going to do as well in low light. The HC5 seems great on paper, but I have yet to see it put though its paces. It is a consumer-level cam, which means it may not have some features you'd need for chasing (infinity focus lock, etc).

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

If that lux rating is true the HC5 will be a best seller among storm chasers. I'm not sure I believe a 1/3" CMOS Sensor can give you a 2 lux rating.

I'm guessing it will be true. Sony seems to be pretty good about their lux ratings once it is below 7 lux. At least one knows it is the same company rating it that that rated the FX1 3 lux and all the other low light sony's their ratings.

It seems saying something is 7 lux doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot though as those certainly aren't all created equall. My HC1 has a 1/3 cmos sensor and is simply horrible in low light. But, then again, some of that is just the automatic mode that tries to make it much brighter than reality. I guess if I turn the exposure down to "reality" manually, to something closer to my older cameras, it's not THAT bad...but the image has to be pretty dark. I've found adjusting the shutter to a slower speed doesn't help my HC1 much either. I'm anxious to see some real tests on the HC5, even if I can't hardly see myself buying another camera after spending $1400 on that one just last spring.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

It is a consumer-level cam, which means it may not have some features you'd need for chasing (infinity focus lock, etc).

Here is one thing I know. My sony trv-19 uses the lcd menu to adjust focus. My HC1 has a focus ring. I don't know of anyway to lock my HC1 at infinity other than spining the wheel and then leaving it there, on manual. Maybe it has some function to lock it there, I've never looked. If it doesn't, I'd much prefer the cheap trv-19 method of the lcd menu. I'm sure the HC5 uses that same method since it doesn't have the focus wheel. There you just touch screen it till it reaches infinity and gives you that symbol. It ain't going off that unless you go back in there and change it, so it's locked there.

 

[Bob Hall]

This too will be my 3rd year chasing with the Sony HDR-FX1. It is an amazing camera and considering that it has only dropped in price about $200 since introduction is testament to its market strength. I’ve previously owned a Canon GL-2 and a VX-2100. For low light, the FX1 is good, but not as great as the VX series. Out of the box, I actually prefer the video ascetic of Canon cameras over Sony. The nice thing with these cameras though is that you have the manual controls to make video look however you want. Take a look at how easy it is to get a high end Sony into a manual focus set to infinity or to the hyprefocal length and it is really hard to imagine chasing with a Canon.

I’m sure they have improved, but the CMOS cameras I have worked with were fine in a studio or show room setting, but in chase conditions the video looked pretty crummy. A friend of mine designs the lighting for many of the booths at the National Association of Broadcasters. He spends hundreds of hours so each camera looks its best in the booth. Some retail chains have begun to use this approach as well. I mention this because we as chasers shoot in some of the most challenging lighting situations.

-Bob Hall (WX5SKY)
www.gobob.com

 

[Michael Laca]

Here is one thing I know. My sony trv-19 uses the lcd menu to adjust focus. My HC1 has a focus ring. I don't know of anyway to lock my HC1 at infinity other than spining the wheel and then leaving it there, on manual. Maybe it has some function to lock it there, I've never looked. If it doesn't, I'd much prefer the cheap trv-19 method of the lcd menu. I'm sure the HC5 uses that same method since it doesn't have the focus wheel. There you just touch screen it till it reaches infinity and gives you that symbol. It ain't going off that unless you go back in there and change it, so it's locked there.

Mike is totally correct, the HC7 (and HC5) both use the LCD menu to allow for the manual adjustment, if you want to lock at infinity, you just use the touch screen to go to manual mode and adjust to infinity, and then leave it there. Additionally, unlike the HC5, the HC7 also has a "Camera Control Dial" which is a physical wheel, immediately behind the left side of the lens that can be programmed to manually control any of the following settings:

Focus
Exposure
Shutter Speed
AE Shift
WB Shift

So, even with the LCD closed, you can still quickly switch to a manual mode for whatever you set the dial to control and immediately make the adjustment, just like having a focus ring.

-=Michael=-

 

[Billy Griffin]

I can highly recommend the XH-A1 by Canon. Price is now in the $3500 range, but it boasts a wealth of broadcast-quality features and settings that can be customized to your taste.

I've had mine for about 4 months now, and have used it for weddings, television documentaries, commercials, nature video featured on "Northwest Backroads," and a lot of other commercial uses.