Does a chaser have a responsibility to warn?

[Ben Cotton]

Re: reporting severe weather

Originally posted by Bill Hark
Although I do recognize the need to report, I do find reporting to be difficult when I'm in a unfamiliar area and don't know who to call.

I think its a good idea for chasers, if they have the time and money, to try to attend Skywarn classes from the areas in which they will be doing a lot of chasing. Try to develop a rapport with the office before you're out in the field.

Also, I don't want to be the 20th person to tie up the lines of communication by reporting the same tornado.

I understand that feeling, but I think they'd rather have 20 reports of the same tornado than none. It's one of those things where you can't assume.

 

[Karen Rhoden]

(Most) chasers are not law enforcement, doctors, paramedics or traffic police.
Because of the above, I think chasers should stay out of any "action" areas so to speak. If a tornado destroys a town, the chaser does not have an obligation to immediately drop his/her cameras and rush to help the injured. If anything they should steer clear of the whole area - they would be causing more trouble than good - being unqualified to offer help and perhaps blocking the paths of others who would do good.

My opinions above also apply to whether or not chasers should warn. Do they have a responsibility to warn? No. The only responsibility chasers have is to be safe and courteous, and not affect the life of members of the public while they chase.

I would say, however, that if a chaser witnesses severe weather and/or a tornado event, and believes that they are the only ones on the storm at the time - then the chaser should definitely think about reporting it - especially when it is in a metropolitan area.

My 0.02,

Karen Rhoden

www.stormskies.com

..

 

[Laura Duchesne]

I voted yes for many reasons stated above in other posts.

I'd also add that if a chaser is already out there, they got all the equipment, at least a cell phone, so why not help out and report severe weather events, especially tornadoes?

I think chasers should report any tornadoes if they see any because like Karen stated, they could be the only ones on the storm.

And Mike G. did state a good point... chasers' reports seem to be a little more credible than spotter reports, because many people think chasers are more knowledgeable in that area. Spotters are mostly just folks who are ham radio enthusiasts, who also have a weather interest. But, there are chasers who are spotters, as well, like myself.

So all in all, if you have a cell phone, and saw something real severe on your chase, be helpful and give a call to the NWS.

There's my 0.2 cents worth, Canadian :wink:

edited: the reason I said *call the nws* is because of the procedure up here in Ontario... I have no idea how it works down in the US... here in Ontario, spotters are given a 1800 # to call the weather office and speak with a meteorologist directly, or they can use ham radio to relay the report to the net controller who sends it to the weather office.

 

[Steve Peterson]

Does a chaser have a responsibility to report severe weather? Depends on the situation. Is it a mandatory part of what we do? No. What's your opinion? I feel that if there is a dangerous weather situation and it appears that there are no others to report it then I think it is a chasers duty to report it. Most tornadic chases I have been involved in recently, there is usually an abundance of other chasers or spotters. I don't feel it is necessary for me to add to the mayhem by calling it in when I know the tornado has already been reported. Concerning hail or high wind reporting, again I use the same logic as tornado reporting, if it looks like it is up to soley up to me to relay the information I will, otherwise I will continue to chase.

I did not vote yes or no because my answer is somewhere in the middle. I do think it is a good thing to fill out the storm reports page that many NWS websites have now. It is something you can do afterwards without having to make a call during the event, plus it is a good way for the NWS to contact you if they have any questions or request any photos/video.

 

[Matthew Hatton]

I voted yes. The more people you can have as being observers on the ground the better. Radar/ dopplar is fantastic but it cannot (as far as I am aware) confirm 100% that a tornado is on the ground for example. Yes there is a chance that the network could be overloaded with false reports but I for oen would prefer a false report than non at all. Anyway, I do feel that a Storm Chaser knows enough to give valid info to the proper authorities surley.

 

[Ben Cotton]

Originally posted by Steve Peterson
Does a chaser have a responsibility to report severe weather? Depends on the situation. Is it a mandatory part of what we do? No. What's your opinion?

By no means is it a requirement of chasing. That being said, it is (IMHO) required by common decency. I was appalled when that lawyer in CA was shot a few months ago. All of the reporters were too stunned to help him, but they weren't too stunned to take all kinds of pictures. :evil:


Ben

 

[Kevin Scharfenberg]

This is a complex question. As far as I know, there is no legal responsibility for a chaser to call and report a tornado, but sometimes it is the ethical thing to do. Having been at some NWS offices during warning operations, it can be a double-edged sword. If every chaser who saw the May 3, 1999 F5 tornado called in the report to the NWS office, they would have been doing nothing but answering phones all day to hear reduntant information.

On the other hand, I'm familiar with two deadly severe weather events (a tornado and a flash flood) that happened within eye shot of two campuses with major meteororolgy programs yet no one bothered to call in a report to the local NWS office. Also, many chasers were around the Spencer, SD tornado in 1998 yet the local NWS office was still unaware of the tornado for awhile.

I just try to use my best judgement on the road. The only two times I've dropped everything to call in a report immediately were the October 2000 OKC tornado and the October 2001 Decatur, Texas tornado. In the former case, I knew it was a fast-developing situation, at night, with no warning yet in effect. In the latter case, a warning was in effect, but I was monitoring local radio and no one else seemed to be reporting the tornado. Also, I have called in "null" reports a few times, when I was in a great position to verify that there was no tornado. "Null" reports can be just as valuable to a warning forecaster as tornado reports!

While we're on the topic, I would stress that it is important to report what you know, NOT what you THINK you know. If all you can see is power flashes at night, report that fact, rather than yelling "TORNADO!" on the phone to the forecaster. Same goes if you see a dusty spin up along the gust front of the storm. If the low level circulation is partially rain wrapped, report that you can't see a tornado from your position, not that there is definitely no tornado with the storm.

Incidently, I have to disagree with the assertion that chasers never have any ethical responsibility to help out if they witness tornado damage where people might be hurt. If the authorities and emergency officials have reached the scene, then I agree chasers should stay completely out of the way. But, if I am the first/only person on the scene as a chaser, I would absolutely see if there was anything I could do to help out until the authorities arrive.

 

[Craig Maire II]

Poll question

I voted yes! I am also a spotter first and a chaser second when I'm encountering severe weather! As for entering a town that has JUST been hit by a tornado etc. OF COURSE I would render assistance! Just because your not a paramedic, police officer etc. doesn't mean that they wouldnt
Wanta helping hand to remove people trapped in rubble, etc. Plus if your CPR/First aid certified you may be able to help SAVE LIVES. Often times during MAJOR disasters local emergency crews are quickly overwhelmed by the magnitude of the emergency so I doubt they would turn away anyone with First aid/CPR training/anyone who is not a GAWKER but just want's to lend a helping hand.

 

[jfeigles]

A few of you had mentioned that if there are already a bunch of spotters and chasers watching the storm, that you do not call anything in due to the NWS callcenter being overloaded with calls. This may be a slightly different situation, but do any of you recall the story of Kitty Genovese (can't remember exactly how to spell the last name)? A few years back, she was a woman who was robbed and murdered in the courtyard of her apartment building in New York. During the whole murder, she was yelling at the top of her lungs, the murderer beat on her for about five minutes or so and ran off because of her screaming. Seeing that no police had shown up yet, he came back to finish the job. The woman was screaming for help the whole time. NOBODY called the police until after the murder was over and she was dead! When asked about it, many people in the appartments said that they heard the whole thing, but assumed that since the event was causing so much noise that someone must have called the cops already. Or that they just didn't want to get involved. The entire time there were cops on duty just minutes away. The womans life could have easily been saved with just one phone call. If you are not familiar with the case, I can try to find a link to an article about it.

Most teachers of ethics (as well as most laws in this country) agree that we do not HAVE to report a crime (in this case, deadly weather) or to rush to someones side to help them. I feel this is true. Noone should be forced to have to help, it shouldn't be a law. BUT, my personal ethics code would not allow me to just drive on by after the storm without trying to help people in need. There could be a dozen chasers following a tornado, each of them thinking that the others have already called it in... Then, when the tornado rolls over a town without warning, they all wonder why.

Many good points have been made in this discussion, both pro and con for reporting, and as far as I can tell, everyone is correct. Unfortunetly, this is an issue that is not black and white. The true answer (if there is a difinitive answer) falls someplace in the vast amount of grey area of the ethical argument.

I'd say, if you can hear on the radio or can call someone who can tell you if the report is on the TV already, then it's safe to say that people have already reported it. Then, if the storm makes a sudden change, report that. If as far as you can tell, there are no warnings or reports comming over the radio, weather radio, TV, whatever, it's a good bet that you could be one of the first people on it and you should be making that phone call!

 

[Shane Adams]

I voted "yes", but my opinion is more complicated.

I believe that every chaser who is able should report severe weather that threatens lives. However, chasers who have no means of reporting shouldn't be chastised. I reported everythig I saw (threatening or not) like clockwork every year I had the means. Since I've no longer had a cell phone, I have stopped, simply because I have no way of reporting.

I don't think chasers who can't afford cell phones are any less-deserving to be out there.

 

[Amos Magliocco]

calling NWS

Originally posted by jfeigles
A few of you had mentioned that if there are already a bunch of spotters and chasers watching the storm, that you do not call anything in due to the NWS callcenter being overloaded with calls. This may be a slightly different situation, but do any of you recall the story of Kitty Genovese

Just a quick point here, there are no NWS call centers, as we might conceive of them from television ads with operators in long rows of cubicles. When you call the NWS, you're calling into a single phone, answered many times by an intern (or anybody who happens to be nearby). There are no staff (please someone correct me if this is wrong) who are paid simply to answer the phone.

Again I'm not saying don't call, but it is useful to understand that when you do call, you are interrupting someone who was doing something else. Now, that interruption may be perfectly justified, but in the situation presented above (a "bunch" of spotters and chasers already on the scene) there's no reason to make that call, unless the spotters are out of position or are reporting the wrong thing.

Here's the most important point, in my opinion. It is an admirable and good thing to want to participate in the warning system, definitely. There is a protocol for the dissemination of information to NWS offices from qualified citizens on the ground, and that is via amateur radio and Skywarn. It works really well. If you want to participate in the warning system, if this is an important thing for you as a chaser (which is great!), then get a license, an inexpensive radio, and check into local Skywarns when the need arises. It's not only the best way to help, but it's good karma and makes you feel as though you're giving something back to the cities and towns you visit on the plains.

Amos Magliocco

 

[jfeigles]

Re: calling NWS

Just a quick point here, there are no NWS call centers, as we might conceive of them from television ads with operators in long rows of cubicles. When you call the NWS, you're calling into a single phone, answered many times by an intern (or anybody who happens to be nearby). There are no staff (please someone correct me if this is wrong) who are paid simply to answer the phone.

Yes, I am aware that this may be the case, I suppose I used the wrong choice of words when I said "call center". It's just that I work as tech support for an ISP and we usually have about only 4-6 people on the phones at any given time, hardly long rows of cubicles, and we still call ourselfs a call center. I guess it's all in how you look at it, no big deal.

But as I suggested, there may be a dozen chasers looking at a tornado, and all of them may beleive that the others have already called in when in fact, no one has yet. I know, it may be a far fetched idea, but I guess it could happen...

But the one point I forgot to make in my last post, you have made, and that's to keep a weather radio (or just the regular car radio) that way you can hear if someone has in fact made the call yet! Of course, I suppose most if not all of you do that already...

 

[Steve Peterson]

I agree with most of what Amos says. The problem I have with amateur radio is as an example in Nebraska the skywarn nets are rather limited to the more populated areas. I would guess that there are somewhere between a dozen to 20 nets in nebraska that usually cover about a county or two in area. If someone more familiar with nets here has more details please feel free to correct me. Considering there are 96 counties in Nebraska that means many rural areas are left uncovered and those are the areas that usually benefit the most from chaser reports. If you have no skywarn to check into then you are left to either calling 911 or talking to a spotter you may see who would most likely be with the local volunteer fire department and then having them relay the message. In these cases I would think amateur radio would be only good for contacting other chasers who may have direct numbers to the NWS.

I think Amos is right about calling the NWS. They do not employ people just to answer the phones for warnings. If you call you are probably calling someone who is also working on various aspects of the warning process and at the same time taking them away from what they are doing. Maybe one of our NWS members could explain this process a little better to us? There is a reason the most NWS offices do not publish their phone numbers to the public. They simply could not handle all of calls during a watch or warnings. They usually only give the numbers to EMC's or other seasoned chasers that they trust.

 

[wesdowns]

I vote "Yes", but with a few qualifications. At the risk of sounding a bit preachy...

With the widespread prevalence of cellphones and 911 systems populated with folks who are paid to take emergency reports for a living, an attempt to call in doesn't cost much. If the line is perpetually busy, then you can probably assume that they already know about the storm and are taking calls on it. Good operators will not be upset at you making a report if they already know about the storm. If they don't need any further information from you, they'll tell you tersely that they already know about it and will politely disconnect you and move on to the serious calls. Sometimes, though, they may want to get some critical information (size of storm, touchdown condition, direction of motion, nearby structures and towns, etc.) that spotters or the general public have not yet revealed to them. 911 operators are generally trained to collect such valuable information and will ask you for it if they need it.

I am surprised at the indications that any NWS local offices in tornado-prone areas do not have some sort of telephone hotline. We do, here, and they frequently ask for reports from the public (not just spotters, but the general population) right in the text of both severe thunderstorm and tornado warnings. Even if this information goes right into a tape recorder and you don't actually speak to the officer involved, the officer can listen in to the line and get valuable information, as it happens. They particularly appreciate public reports of confirmed funnels and touchdowns, since the population here is relatively skeptical about radar-indicated warnings.

My qualifications for the "Yes" vote apply to chasers who maintain CB and ham radios, or who use a scanner set to monitor the transmissions of emergency service agencies of the area. If by some means, you can determine that emergency personnel are already aware of the event and that their information is accurate, then making another call would be counterproductive. Of course, if the information you hear is incorrect, then you should still call in and report the discrepancy, in a non-confrontational way. Just tell them what you know and let them make the decisions. Also, if conditions change (i.e. another touchdown), then a call would be very useful, since the attention of both spotters and emergency services may be too focused on the first event to miss new developments.

Compare the situation to the traffic accident analogy mentioned before. If you see three people with cellphones at the site, see other drivers helping out, hear the sirens, or see the emergency vehicles on the way, then another call wouldn't do much good. On the other hand, if these things aren't happening and everyone just assumes that someone else has called or that the authorities will take care of it, help will never arrive.

Another qualificatin involves a bit of research. It doesn't hurt to sniff out the preferences of the authorities and the health of the spotter network in the place you plan to chase, if you're not familiar with the area. Most police, for example, won't mind a call to the non-emergency number to find out what they would prefer for you to do, if you have enough lead time before the severe weather begins. If you know that you're in an area with a superb spotter network or a place where officials would be bothered by redundant reports, then your call may not be necessary or welcome.

Common sense goes a long way, too.