Do you think the Federal relief effort is being mismanaged?

[Tim Vasquez]

The disapproval rating here was a lot higher than I thought, as ST does tend to have a conservative crowd.

I usually try not to editorialize much on the board, but I have to agree; the relief management has become a debacle and someone will have to answer for why there is not water and medicine on the ground at the convention center 72 hours after the storm left. If this continues another couple of days, I think the writing is on the wall that there will be a congressional investigation this November or December.

In spite of that, of course, I have to tip my hat to the EM and relief people working this disaster; there is no doubt each person is putting in 120% with what little they have. Also thanks to San Antonio, Houston, and BTR for accepting the refugees, and there damn well needs to be more of them, as diffusing the survivors will put them in better contact with each community's relief network (in lieu of Federal help). I suspect there is a NIMBY (not in my backyard) thing going on at the local political levels but there's no evidence right now I'm aware of.

I only realized in hindsight that this thread opened a political discussion, since we're talking about the executive branch here, but I'm glad to see it's remained civil.

Tim

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Originally posted by Tim Vasquez

In spite of that, of course, I have to tip my hat to the EM and relief people working this disaster; there is no doubt each person is putting in 120% with what little they have. Also thanks to San Antonio, Houston, and BTR for accepting the refugees, and there damn well needs to be more of them, as diffusing the survivors will put them in better contact with each community's relief network (in lieu of Federal help). I suspect there is a NIMBY (not in my backyard) thing going on at the local political levels but there's no evidence right now I'm aware of.


Tim

I think it's easy for folks to forget what Tim just wrote above. Heck, I'm guilty of this myself. While I'm angered by the planning and execution of relief by many of the agencies involved, we certainly have to understand that we can't get upset by the individuals involved in relief in New Orleans. The Coast Guard, NO Police Department, etc, are probably not fairing TOO much better than everyone else in NO. I doubt they sleep comfortably, and I doubt they sleep much at all for that matter. These folks are probably working 200%, and I can't imagine how tired most of the rescue and law enforcement folks are.

 

[Dave Kaplow]

The people who are responsible for disaster planning in this country knew perfectly well that NO was a catastrophe waiting to happen. The evacuate NO scenario was probably at the very top of the list of most likely natural disasters in this country, probably right below the inevitable "big one" out in CA. That there was no comprehensive plan in place, that money for fixing the levee system was knowingly diverted to homeland security, is inexcusable. EVERYONE knew this was going to happen, and yet the response has been chaos. I simply cannot believe that we can't get food and water to those people this many days after the storm.

The vast majority of the people who are now stuck in NO could not have gotten out if they tried - and many did indeed try. There was no plan at all in place to provide any kind of transportation out of the city to the poor. Nothing! Those people were simply abandoned. There are whole fleets of buses, probably many with full tanks, now rusting underwater in the flooded areas. Why couldn't that resource have been utilized? It's an utter disgrace. Sure, this is a disaster of unprecedented proportions, but it's a disaster that was a well known and highly recognized possibility, indeed it was considered inevitable by many. Given that fact, it's just shocking that this is the best our country can do.

Edit: let me add that I absolutely agree with the above 2 posts that were posted while I was composing mine. The people "out in the trenches" are doing an impossible job surprisingly well. They deserve our support.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine the frustration the rescuers feel right now, I am pretty sure they are also listening to the media coverage. Of course they are giving 200%. The blame lies in the hands of top officials. The president should take FULL responsibility for how this whole tragedy is handled.

 

[Chris Sokol]

Just looking at the response to this disaster, there needs to be a ton of overhauling of our national disaster response system before something like a 9.0 quake in Los Angeles. If we can't handle this, with less people, less area, and actual leadtime...what would we do in California?

 

[Anonymous]

I am looking at video footage of the Convention Center where there are 8 to 10 thousand people there and there are National Guard present holding their guns "in a show of force" people are asking for water and food from these guards - and are given NOTHING! So the National Guards can get there but no supplies? People are just dropping like flies.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kevin Bowman)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-John Farley

I am utterly amazed at the very limited use of U.S. military resources. Sending ships that will arrive next week does nothing for the thousands stranded and in danger of dying. Air drops of food and water are needed immediately, and nobody but the U.S. military has the resources to move large numbers of people in a short time as needed for this disaster. There seems to have been no plan to do this, and when yesterday was allowed to pass with no such action undertaken, the fates of many who are trapped was, I fear, sealed. This is a national disgrace.

Yes, it is a very spread-out large-scale disaster, on an unprecedented scale, but there have been 15,000 people in need of food and water at the convention center and even this large, concentrated mass of people had received no assistance as of the last report I heard.

yep airdrop food and water into the middle of looters and watch people get killed by the stampede. You really think the people who need the help the most get it by air drops?[/b]

With all due respect, I think you're going way too far out on a limb to defend the mismanagement of this operation. Can't drop food and water because... people might be hurt getting to it? Oh noes! Look, the lack of resources is one of the MAIN DRIVING FACTORS in the looting. If there were resources, there wouldn't be so much looting. There is NO EXCUSE for not having a steady line of supplies going into the city right now.

BTW, this isn't just a problem in NOLA -- this is a problem on the WHOLE MS COAST. There isn't even looting going on out there -- just starvation/dehydration.

 

[Kevin Bowman]

Originally posted by Ryan McGinnis+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ryan McGinnis)</div>

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman@
<!--QuoteBegin-John Farley

I am utterly amazed at the very limited use of U.S. military resources. Sending ships that will arrive next week does nothing for the thousands stranded and in danger of dying. Air drops of food and water are needed immediately, and nobody but the U.S. military has the resources to move large numbers of people in a short time as needed for this disaster. There seems to have been no plan to do this, and when yesterday was allowed to pass with no such action undertaken, the fates of many who are trapped was, I fear, sealed. This is a national disgrace.

Yes, it is a very spread-out large-scale disaster, on an unprecedented scale, but there have been 15,000 people in need of food and water at the convention center and even this large, concentrated mass of people had received no assistance as of the last report I heard.

yep airdrop food and water into the middle of looters and watch people get killed by the stampede. You really think the people who need the help the most get it by air drops?

With all due respect, I think you're going way too far out on a limb to defend the mismanagement of this operation. Can't drop food and water because... people might be hurt getting to it? Oh noes! Look, the lack of resources is one of the MAIN DRIVING FACTORS in the looting. If there were resources, there wouldn't be so much looting. There is NO EXCUSE for not having a steady line of supplies going into the city right now.

BTW, this isn't just a problem in NOLA -- this is a problem on the WHOLE MS COAST. There isn't even looting going on out there -- just starvation/dehydration.[/b]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_...cane_katrina_43
A military heliocpter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away

my main point and maybe i didnt make it clear, the people WHO NEED IT THE MOST will not get any because of all the people rushing and taking it as their own thus the sick and dying will get nothing

 

[Carla Bisby]

There should have been massive coordinated rescue and relief efforts in place, on standby, near the affected region, waiting to move in the second they were able to do so. It's not like this came as a surprise. I'm totally disgusted. :evil: The lack of organization and proactiveness is appalling. I mean, hello? At one point it was a Cat 5 and the eye was headed for NO. What did they think would happen? A little wind would blow? Maybe a few shingles lost? 3 inches of water here and there? It was a catastrophe that we all watched come upon us. Last weekend it was like watching a bad train wreck about to take place. Didn't they understand what was about to happen? Good grief.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman
the people WHO NEED IT THE MOST will not get any because of all the people rushing and taking it as their own thus the sick and dying will get nothing

Very good point, but I'd say it goes on the assumption that thugs are at the receiving end. I'd say any little bit helps. I'd bet there are a lot of able-bodied people who are tending to the sick/elderly (some of them probably friends and relatives). But we do need a security force in there soon.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

Because it's so understaffed down there the rescue/relief workers who are there are probably having to work to the point of exhaustion.

 

[Tom Mitchell]

I am certain that everyone involved, at all levels, is giving as much as they can. Even the President cut short his five week vacation by 2 days! (sarcasm).

But seriously, from the people on the ground to those all the way to the top, except maybe the white house, I'm sure everyone is trying their best. Even the white house has woken up now.

That being said, when you mention federal, and management in the same breath, I, for one, don't hold the breath and waith for results. The best and the brightest do not go into federal management jobs at the decision making level.

This is a governmental failure at all levels, and it started long before the hurricane ever stuck. Lack of funding to the Corp of Engineers projects, no piblic education on the risks involved in such a storm, not to mention the somewhat slow response after the event. They knew they would need water. They have helicopters. Go to the nearest walmart (or nearest 20) and grap their water. Ask for the bill later. Greatpub for Walmart, water for thirsty people. People are dying because of lack of response, lack of decisions, and lack of thinking at many levels.

Again, to all you aid workers, volunteers, and anybody else out there giving unimaginable effort in the face of unimaginable adversity, my thoughts continue to be focused nearly 100% on your efforts, and the plight of those that you are helping. I will never demean your work. Thank you.

As for those tasked with coordinating this event above the local level...I sure you tried hard to get this right. But take lots of notes, and keep looking for ways to improve for the next disaster, because you didn't get this right.

Sorry for the harsh words,

Have a great day,
Tom

 

[rdale]

Emergency Management

Let's realize that 9/11 changed a LOT of ways that our country is protected from natural disasters. Up til then, local EM agencies had been doing a very good job in preparing for floods / canes / tornadoes / etc. Any idea where most of the funding HAS to go today? (Most is probably a conservative word...)

Terrorism.

$100,000 went to train Tecumseh Michigan (pop: 8000) on incident management. Nobody attended. $65K for a decontamination unit for the State of Washington's Hazmat team. The state doesn't have such a team, so it sits idly in a warehouse. We've been saying for quite a while that the money needs to go where the disasters are likely to occur -- but Congress doesn't find that "sexy" enough. Maybe the critters will change their minds now.

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Well said, RDale. What are the REALISTIC chances of a nuclear dirty bomb in western Oklahoma, for example? Why are we spending so much money on things that are so incredibly unlikely to happen instead of preventing the inevidable (major hurricane in NO)? People seem so paranoid about terrorism that we're majorly underfunding things that are MUCH more likely to happen. Yes, some hazmat and terrorist related things may help a community should they get attacked, but let's be realistic. We all knew NO was going to get hit by a huge hurricane. It wasn't an "if", it was a "when". Well, we now know that it is 2005. Unfortunately, funding has been diverted (straight from the mouth of some city officials) away from things that could have helped. I've had a professor here at OU tell me that the Dept. of Homeland Security has so much money that they are practically giving it away for any projects (however ludicris) that can be earmarked for "terrorism" response or prevention.

 

[Jay McCoy]

Problem is this has been a disaster in the making for 40 years. They have known for 4 decodes that anything above cat3 would swamp NO and cause devistation and nobody, federal, state or local did anything about it. People in NO calous to the threat of a hurricane and so many stayed when the evacuation was ordered. I dont buy the argument about people not having a means. There were buses all over the city taking people to shelters. anybody who stayed home did so by choice. They may not have been able to leave the city but they could have been at a shelter which would have madthings easier than spending time and resources going block to block and doing roof rescues. Those helicopters and boats could be used to help the shelters. anybody left at the houses would be on their own.

It takes time to get a disaster relief operation going but it is now coming up to speed. I feel they are doing what they can with the threats facing them. I say send in troops to shoot the looters and trouble makers so we can help the real victims.