Data Failure in Storm Proximity

[Jesse Risley]

I was in Winfield, Kansas and could not get data. Winfield has a population of 12,000 and is the county seat and most populous city of Cowley County. Hard to imagine a few dozen chasers passing through overloaded the system. Maybe . . . I don't know enough about that. My MaxSignal showed 100%. It was as if Sprint cut me off temporarily.

It's possible that broadband towers in more rural communities, even larger ones, are not apt to handle large amounts of data transfer. If other chasers or local data users were utilizing the system, that could have been a factor. During tornado warnings, I've noticed cellular voice towers have been busy and unusable in certain communities. I attribute that to the "panic" factor with the general public.

I have no idea whether or not cellular companies have some sort of a restriction or automatic ability to cut a user on a specific tower with less than a moment's notice if they exceed a certain data load.

Q: How are you able to monitor signal strength on the MaxSignal amp? Do you have software with your data card?

I have the Rockies amp, but my Verizon data card signal strength indicator only notes the signal strength (out of 4 bars) when I connect; it does not change thereafter.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I don't see that same issue. When mine drops, GR3 drops all frames until it comes back on, and always gets the latest data available. Maybe it is a config issue somehow. What version are you running? I think the latest is 1.52. Sounds like a GR3-owners-forum question might be in order:
http://www.grlevelx.com/owners/index.php

TonyC

Ditto - When I have insufficient data coverage, I get the red highlights on GR3.

It always reads "next update X:XX minutes" and it's highlighted in red until I receive a data update. The same goes for any data feeds in the placefile menu - they appear in red until an update is available. I've never had a problem with the program freezing as described in other posts.

 

[Stephen Locke]

Q: How are you able to monitor signal strength on the MaxSignal amp? Do you have software with your data card?

I'm just looking at the Sprint Smart View. If I plug in the MaxSignal the signal indicator will jump to 100%. I guess I don't really know what is coming out of the amp. Sprint View thinks it is getting a 100% signal when I plug in MaxSignal.

 

[Bill Tabor]

I have the same issue with Alltel. It seems to happen independently of my proximity to a storm, though I certainly notice it more when I am in the vicinity of a big cell.

Last year, it happened so often it was almost comical. I was using tethering at that time, using a Max signal amp and Alltel's tether plan. The amp seems to keep my signal up consistently, so I don't think that was it. I suspect maybe a heavy load on the towers (due to other chasers, etc), but never pinned it down. Sometimes, it may be an issue of leaving Alltel coverage area, and towers of different providers not playing well together.

The worst part with my tether system last year- about two times per chase, I would get a system lockup (i.e. Windows blue-screen-of-death). That *did* seem to happen with alarming frequency when I was in the heat of battle with a tornadic HP cell. Normal power-off sequence of the laptop would not even work. The only solution at that time was to pull off the road, literally pull the power cord and battery for 5 seconds, and plug it back in. Then restart GPS, GR3, etc.

Yesterday was my first run with a USB modem and a dedicated Alltel data line. Guess what. Still plenty of data dropouts. I was tailing the Central TX cell from Junction almost back to Austin during this time, so I think some of that was simple lack of coverage. At least I did not have a system lockup, so that much is a little better.

All of this brings up a related question I have. The setup I have now uses Alltel's "QuickLink mobile" software. I talked with tech support and have it configured to reconnect if it loses the line, but that did not really work too well yesterday. How do other chasers handle the reconnect issue. My goal is complete hands-free data access. The last thing I want is to have to punch keys just to reconnect. Surely there is a simple solution just to have things "always on".

Thanks for the topic, Stephen. Was getting ready to post about this very thing.

TonyC

Tony I suspect you should have gone with Millenicom. I just signed up again and so did David. That said, the reasons for your drop outs were probably poor coverage. That area out by Junction to Llano to Marble Falls is tough for coverage and it's very hilly too. I used Quicklink Mobile with my Verizon and they also had 'Expressnet' when in the higher speed Evdo Rev 0 & A areas. The setup I had didn't have reconnect. As I recall my Millenicom does auto reconnect, but I will likely be using a new software / modem this time. Their new USB modem is the Pantech UM175 or was it UB175? One or the other.

Guys, I've never had a problem with dropouts near a storm. I don't think the storm affects the cell signals unless it knocks out a tower. Perhaps an electric surge (lightning) can cause cell towers to temporarily shut down like street lights do? However I will say I used to get a lot of drop outs near chaser convergence and that is because too many people are competing in rural areas for a tower and a data connect.

 

[Scott Bennett]

I have been trying some different solutions this season including a Kyocera KR2 router and allowing it to tether my Blackberry if my data card fails. I had noticed at times where my datacard lost signal my Blackberry was still working, also times where the datacard was on 1x, my BB was still running EVDO.

Both are on the Sprint network.

Although I thought the KR2 would solve all of my broadband holes it's been more of a nightmare than a help. On more than one occasion I have had to pull the card and put it back in the laptop, it just would not find ANYTHING in the router, but worked fine once in the laptop again.

I am also using a amp from max signal, I REALLY wish it had a status port of some sort so you could see what it's doing, I have simply been referring to it as "Amp Voodoo" because I was questioning if it did anything at all. There was a noticeable difference on this chase once I switched to a perm mounted antenna rather than the rubber ducky mag mount. Your results may vary.

 

[Tony Cook]

Tony I suspect you should have gone with Millenicom. I just signed up again and so did David. That said, the reasons for your drop outs were probably poor coverage. That area out by Junction to Llano to Marble Falls is tough for coverage and it's very hilly too. I used Quicklink Mobile with my Verizon and they also had 'Expressnet' when in the higher speed Evdo Rev 0 & A areas. The setup I had didn't have reconnect. As I recall my Millenicom does auto reconnect, but I will likely be using a new software / modem this time. Their new USB modem is the Pantech UM175 or was it UB175? One or the other.

Hopefully we will get another chance to field test in the next 3 weeks. We can compare then, and if Millenicom can outperform the Alltel setup, I will switch when my month is up. I have the Pantech (UTStarcomm) UM175. Interesting little device. It has some nice features, but seems a litle dinky. It will swivel, which is cool, but you have to be careful about how you remove and insert it.

With the max signal amp Wednesday, had mixed results. Quicklink mobile has a nice, big status panel, so it was easy to monitor that. I dropped down to 2-3 bars quite a bit. My old Moto E315 tethering system almost always kept 4+ bars last year, so I need to figure that out, too. That alone may have caused some data dropouts.

TonyC

 

[cdcollura]

Good day all,

I ran into this same problem last year (with AT&T wireless), once out in the field, in a massive Kansas "chaser convergence" and another time at Texas's Love Field (Dallas) airport.

Both cases were a crunch of traffic on the tower. In the airport, so many people using the wireless LAN also caused the same problem, so I plugged in my Sierra card, it worked for a few minutes, then got bogged down, even with 100% signal.

The Kansas issue was that the cell-tower most likely had a "chasers wanting internet" convergence of it's own ;-)

These towers have a bandwidth, usually fiber, and can ONLY handle so much data, in addition to dedicated voice (PCM data). They can, and do get overloaded.

In addition, the storm itself can be an issue. If there is a satellite uplink, which operates on microwaves, this can be affected by cloud cover / precip ... Ever see your satellite TV go in and out in heavy rain / clouds? Same principle.

The signal between two antennas (your's and the tower) can also be attenuated by precipitation.

 

[Mark Blue]

Hey Steve,

I noticed in your other post about the Oklahoma Shape File issues you were having that you posted a screen shot of your GRL3 application - the one with the broken artifacts of the Oklahoma roads found here:

http://stephenlocke.com/photos/Oklahoma Roads Shape File.jpg

In that screen shot I noticed that you had nearly every GRL3 product loaded, or in other words there were 15 tabs across the top of your application, all of which have to pull data from the server each and every time GRL3 updates. This is more than likely the cause of why GRL3 isn't updating itself during each update cycle and thus gets behind and can never catch up. I'd recommend on your next chase just having 2 or 3 tabs open with the products of your choice (BR 1, SRV 1, and maybe one other) and see if that improves your data connectivity issues. I also use Sprint and rarely have had the problems you mentioned, except when I'm in BF Egypt and that's to be expected when you find yourself there! Give it a shot and let us know if it helps on your next chase.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

Going to be a gross problem this year with the vast number of streamers, those who have learned to chase successfully without data will be ok, others will undoubtedly be doing a lot of cursing in frustration as they loose a fail to regain the data they need.

 

[David Drummond]

Going to be a gross problem this year with the vast number of streamers, those who have learned to chase successfully without data will be ok, others will undoubtedly be doing a lot of cursing in frustration as they loose a fail to regain the data they need.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the streamers. I can't speak for what other people are running, but I ran a consistent stream the other day from just after 9am in Moore, OK, until sunset (around 8:30 pm) in Austin, TX. I ran 157 MB total on my data card for the day, and that was streaming the entire time, GRLevel3 (sometimes more than one instance), SpotterNetwork, Spotterchat, and checking emails a few times during the day, as well as looking at the occasional vis sat. That was spread out between who knows how many cell towers, so the data usage at any one individual tower just can't be all that much for any one person unless they are file sharing.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

What I'll be doing this year is running a wx-worx as backup. Now that I have cellular internet through alltel, I have been putting my wx-worx on a lower priced data plan which is only $30/month. With alltel and wx-wrox I will be spending only $60/month, and canceling it at the end of the season, so I'll spend about $180 dollars for data the whole season. Just an idea I'll throw out, although I'm sure you all probably know...

 

[Steve Miller]

Regarding streaming, it should also be noted that streaming is all upload. The problems mentioned in this thread are all download related.
I have been baffled several times in a convergence situation when I couldn't get data to download but my stream was solid as a rock on upload.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I think you also have to remember that cellular towers are built to facilitate normal amounts of traffic in a given area. Rural towers are not acclimated to normally facilitate large amounts of voice and/or data traffic that are common with massive chaser convergances.

This is all coupled with the fact that non-chaser cell users (John Q. Public) are now more frequently using their phones to browse the net and send messages, which adds even more usage to towers with older T1 connections.

 

[Stephen Locke]

Hey Steve,

I noticed in your other post about the Oklahoma Shape File issues you were having that you posted a screen shot of your GRL3 application - the one with the broken artifacts of the Oklahoma roads found here:

http://stephenlocke.com/photos/Oklahoma Roads Shape File.jpg

In that screen shot I noticed that you had nearly every GRL3 product loaded, or in other words there were 15 tabs across the top of your application, all of which have to pull data from the server each and every time GRL3 updates. This is more than likely the cause of why GRL3 isn't updating itself during each update cycle and thus gets behind and can never catch up. I'd recommend on your next chase just having 2 or 3 tabs open with the products of your choice (BR 1, SRV 1, and maybe one other) and see if that improves your data connectivity issues. I also use Sprint and rarely have had the problems you mentioned, except when I'm in BF Egypt and that's to be expected when you find yourself there! Give it a shot and let us know if it helps on your next chase.

Thanks,
Mark

Thanks Mark, I had been wondering if that was an issue. You got as sharp eye for details!