Cloud 9 Tour Van Incident 5/4/22

[JamesCaruso]

A strong, cyclic supercell having on occlusion rapidly peel to the north is also what happened with the Salado tornado a few weeks back. Really reinforces why it's better to be safe than sorry with storms like this, especially after dark. That storm was in a bad road network for the majority of its life from west of King County all the way to Vernon, and as @Brian OConnell noted, there's no real crossings along the Pease out there outside of the US highways.

A poor road network likely contributes to incidents like this... Even the best intentions to be safe, fail when there just aren't enough road options... When the choice is to use the one good road that allows us to stay with the storm despite the dangers, or pretty much give up on the storm by ending up hopelessly out of position, it is very hard to choose the latter...

 

[JamesCaruso]

Pilots manage flight emergency risk with very specific response pre-planning discussions on 'if this type of failure happens at this time, we do this" and I wonder if many chasers or tour operators do something similar or just react without a plan once an unexpected problem arises. I have been trying to think that way when I am out on risky storms; pre plan what could go wrong and what I would do. It is not like I haven't made errors or been surprised out there. I would much rather miss one view than all the views forever so this incident is a good reminder to stay safe.

Great reminder, this is absolutely a discipline that we should all follow... In another example of how chasing has parallels and transferability to other areas of life, your idea reminds me of other areas of risk management and tabletop scenario planning that have always interested me both professionally and personally, and this is a great reminder that it is hugely necessary and applicable to chasing. I will actually enjoy applying that discipline this year!

 

[JamesCaruso]

Kind of a ridiculous video for them to post... Aside from potentially documenting legal culpability for themselves, it's not at all compelling... Some annoying whimpering (surprised there was seemingly only one voice, and not a bunch of passengers screaming), some wind noise, and mostly a black screen with only the words "for licensing contact Charles Edwards" visible...

 

[Warren Faidley]

Agree that idea of staying in a safer position seems to be out of favor for many.

It seems like a lot of people out there today pride themselves on chasing from in/near path close up positions, at least according to their self declarations via social media and 'extreme' and 'insane' videos. I almost feel it is expected as the only way to chase by a certain faction and hope that is not the belief of tour operators that they must do this to get an experience for their guests over being cautious and backing off. I'm certainly not the chaser police and don't intend to tell others what to do, but I do see the statistics of taking such risk as meaning more eventual tragedy is a foregone conclusion.

In this particular instance, who knows if there was a vehicle mechanical or other issue, or if the positioning was intentional. If data or roads were bad in the area I would hope people would back off of being in or near path locations so that no surprises would get them into trouble.
In my humble opinion, viewing positions should be adjusted based on minimum needed response time to reach safety if surprises happen. Pilots manage flight emergency risk with very specific response pre-planning discussions on 'if this type of failure happens at this time, we do this" and I wonder if many chasers or tour operators do something similar or just react without a plan once an unexpected problem arises. I have been trying to think that way when I am out on risky storms; pre plan what could go wrong and what I would do. It is not like I haven't made errors or been surprised out there. I would much rather miss one view than all the views forever so this incident is a good reminder to stay safe.

Great ideas... but the genie is out of the bottle. A few Veteran chasers tried to address these issues when they first became a problem, but the momentum of social media stardom, money, glory and the ability to chase full-time was more powerful than self-regulating behavior. The fan base also wanted more death-defying stunts and close-up footage, so it became the norm of chasing. The current mode of chasing will eventually give way to even more extreme stunts in order to remain relevant. The death toll of chasers will rise. This is especially true given the number of people now chasing in the deep south where visibility is an issue and amateurs try to emulate others.

As I noted before, I no longer care how people chase and it's a personal choice as long as they don't endanger other people. There are checks and balances that most chasers never consider: Kill someone by negligence and you are facing manslaughter and civil actions. Maim yourself with debris and be disabled for life.

 

[Jamie H]

I am particularly interested in the psychological and emotional aspects of chasing that are highlighted by incidents like this. For example, chasing has obviously become competitive. In some cases it is "real" competition - in other words, tour companies actually competing for customers by offering the most intense experiences (setting aside for a moment the fact that killing or injuring your customers is not good for business...); media companies competing for the best coverage; social media types competing for who knows what...

It reminds me a little of the events on Mt Everest most recently covered by the movie Everest. The underlying cause of the tragedy was related to the exposure different companies could get from the media and how they could use it to run profitable businesses. If chaser tours are going to evolve from safe view of beautiful phenomena to extreme action (which sadly seems more likely than not) then these kind of things won't be rare events anymore and something bad will eventually happen.

 

[Jeremy Gilchrist]

We broke off our chase after Truscott/Crowley. There is no point to chasing in the dark IMO. I personally like seeing the structure with the Tor so also no need to "zero meter" for me (you are also not going to sell any footage with every chaser in the Plains on the same cell). Of course this is only my personal choice. My only regret yesterday was not being in the right spot to send out the drone. That screaming inflow would have ended that idea real quick.

 

[Michael Towers]

If chaser tours are going to evolve from safe view of beautiful phenomena to extreme action...

I agree but I’m not sure that’s the case here, if so I’m sure it will come out. More likely poor road options, possibly poor data access and deviant tornado motion combined with poor planning and judgment by the operators are to blame. I’m not excusing or defending the company (nor do I know anyone in Cloud 9 or any other tour company) as they have a responsibility first and foremost for the safety of their passengers. I just think the issues noted above are more likely to blame than an extreme endeavor to satiate the appetite of thrill-seeking customers…which may only be a small minority of customers anyway.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

Great ideas... but the genie is out of the bottle. A few Veteran chasers tried to address these issues when they first became a problem, but the momentum of social media stardom, money, glory and the ability to chase full-time was more powerful than self-regulating behavior.

Many of these incidents are from "Veteran" chasers... How long has Cloud 9 or Silver Lining been operating?

 

[Brian OConnell]

If this was the tour group I saw on the livestreams (which seems likely based on their positioning according to the GPS screen in the video), I cannot see how this was the result of anything other than a major mistake, I saw them hook slice from the west on an eastward moving storm, so they were knowingly putting themselves in a bad part of the inflow notch, and were coming from behind the storm, not simply overtaken by the storm after suffering a mechanical failure (the video also shows the vehicle driving normally until the winds become too high), the lack of good roads should not have been a surprise, as someone should have been navigating and had maps, they should have seen this and not put themselves in a position where they lacked good escape routs. Poor data access is not a sufficient explanation, as they should not have put themselves in a position where they are trusting their lives to radar data in the first place (I know no one died, but they easily could have), and the tornado motion was not that unusual, north turns are common when a supercell tornado occludes, the only unusual thing here is that the whole supercell turned north, instead of just the tornado, but this is irrelevant to the fact that they should have been prepared for a north turn

 

[JamesCaruso]

Many of these incidents are from "Veteran" chasers... How long has Cloud 9 or Silver Lining been operating?

Exactly… I’m not sure how long SL has been operating (definitely long enough to be considered veterans in any case) but I know for a fact C9 has been operating since the mid-90s.

Well if we assume they did nothing “wrong” in terms of being “too aggressive,” it just goes to show the unexpected can happen and no one is immune from disaster, no matter how much experience you have…

 

[Mitch Drabenstott]

I was chasing with Tempest Tours yesterday. At 8:35 pm we were pulled over on the side on the road while getting blasted by RFD winds and a white van passed by. At that point we were about 2-3 miles NW of the mesocyclone and our tour director was contemplating our next move. I think we went about another mile or two before turning around and abandoning the chase because it was getting dark and they didn’t want to chase without a good view of the storm. If that white van we saw was Cloud 9 (we think it was), they must have made the decision to keep going into the notch, thinking the tornado would continue its WNW motion. Obviously it was a very costly mistake, and they’re fortunate it wasn’t worse.

 

[Mark Egan]

In the earlier days of storm chasing, that position was known as the "bear's cage." Chasing 101's first rule was, "never be in the bear's cage." I'm sorry that it seems to have been forgotten.

I don’t have much experience with chasing, but I understand why chasers position themselves in the bear’s cage: it can provide better contrast for photography/ videography/ visual (tornado seen against the brighter sky background outside the storm) - but that would only apply during the day. What’s to be gained by being in the bear's cage at night? The contrast effect is not there, right? Am I missing something?

 

[John Farley]

I was chasing with Tempest Tours yesterday. At 8:35 pm we were pulled over on the side on the road while getting blasted by RFD winds and a white van passed by. At that point we were about 2-3 miles NW of the mesocyclone and our tour director was contemplating our next move. I think we went about another mile or two before turning around and abandoning the chase because it was getting dark and they didn’t want to chase without a good view of the storm. If that white van we saw was Cloud 9 (we think it was), they must have made the decision to keep going into the notch, thinking the tornado would continue its WNW motion. Obviously it was a very costly mistake, and they’re fortunate it wasn’t worse.

Mitch, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I am wondering if you know why your group was even on that side of the storm. North of the meso, left of the storm's direction, seems like a poor place to be any time. But now I hear that two very experienced tour groups were there, and I am wondering why. This was a long-track supercell and for that matter a long-track tornado, and it seems to me that the opposite side of the storm and meso would have been the place to be. And given that it was by then dark, that location makes even less sense to me. Any info you could provide on the group's reasoning, if you know, would be interesting to me to hear.

 

[Mitch Drabenstott]

Mitch, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I am wondering if you know why your group was even on that side of the storm. North of the meso, left of the storm's direction, seems like a poor place to be any time. But now I hear that two very experienced tour groups were there, and I am wondering why. This was a long-track supercell and for that matter a long-track tornado, and it seems to me that the opposite side of the storm and meso would have been the place to be. And given that it was by then dark, that location makes even less sense to me. Any info you could provide on the group's reasoning, if you know, would be interesting to me to hear.

Our tour group wanted to try and come up behind the storm to see if we could see anything, because they knew that the poor road network would not allow us to see the tornado again before it got dark if we dropped south again and got in front of it. They were hoping the RFD rain and wind would not be as intense as it was. We still had somewhat of a view of the mesocyclone but could not see a tornado.

It’s important to note that our tour never went east of due north of the meso/possible tornado. We were always behind it by at least a mile or two. They kept pulling over, partly to make sure we were safe if it indeed turned north. I think they made the decision to turn around when the meso was no longer visible, even with a high contrast camera, and they didn’t want to play around in the dark blindly. Our tour director said he wasn’t worried about getting hit by a tornado at any point, he was much more concerned about hail.

 

[James Wilson]

I posted my experience chasing this tornado in the report thread for 5/4. I was also on that road though I stayed more to the west/SW of the tornado to avoid any issues with it changing size/direction. I know data was an issue around this area for some to include me. This is another reason I stayed back more than I would have if I had data and if it was still light out. This tornado was loud and wind directions clearly showed about where the tornado was even without knowing exactly where it was. I made sure I was just out of the danger zone as best I could tell but it was obvious that moving forward needed to be slow or not at all.

I do not know the vans situation .... maybe they thought they were way more in front of it than they were. If so I figure they thought they had a good spot to view it from a point SE once they turned away from the path. They were obviously not far enough away and took a glancing blow as it was lifting. There might have been other reasons that the van could not get further in front like traffic, the town, whatever. We do not know everything that lead to this but I know at night WAY MORE caution is required.

If you chase long enough you will make a split minute decision eventually that you will regret but hopefully it is a minor one like mine and not like the tour groups. All in all I stay out of the cage at night!