Clash between Chasers and Spotters

[Jason Foster]

Many WFO's do not and will not put themselves in the position of liability for mobile spotters or chasers. They prefer the static spotter, thus they
will turn you away. I have actually heard of WFO's de-recognizing a spotter group because they have mobile spotters.

Now I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the NWS making the decision not to allow reports from chasers/mobile spotters. It sounds more like a ham radio operator acting as net control (or a committee prior) that has made the decision. If they accept the LSR via other means (800 number, SN, eSpotter, whatever) than the issue does sound like a clash to me. It 100% the issue between hams/spotters here versus chasers. The WCM has no issues with taking reports via ham radio from chasers...but the hams have decided not to accept it. And going by the IM traffic (that I had a chance to secretly see) that goes on "behind the scenes" there is real issues. I doubt my area is the only one.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Now I could be wrong, but this doesn't sound like the NWS making the decision not to allow reports from chasers/mobile spotters. It sounds more like a ham radio operator acting as net control (or a committee prior) that has made the decision. If they accept the LSR via other means (800 number, SN, eSpotter, whatever) than the issue does sound like a clash to me. It 100% the issue between hams/spotters here versus chasers. The WCM has no issues with taking reports via ham radio from chasers...but the hams have decided not to accept it. And going by the IM traffic (that I had a chance to secretly see) that goes on "behind the scenes" there is real issues. I doubt my area is the only one.

I would guess it could depend on the WFO, but around here the WCM oversees the groups running the radios. Nothing is final until the WCM indicates so.

To assume it is a spotter vs chaser may or may not be correct. It may be more of a liability issue as he indicated he would go out into the storm and have a look see.

Please refer to this webpage for more information on what the NWS thinks of mobile spotting/chasing.

You will find this: "NOTE: The National Weather Service does not condone, endorse or recommend storm chasing. It is a dangerous practice and should not be attempted."

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=stormspotting-safety



Tim

 

[Matt Tottle]

Mobile spotting and chasing are two entirely different things. I don't spot from my back yard, I don't have a good view. If I'm not going out to chase, I have a spot that I go to where I sit and watch and take pictures. There's a lake right there so I occasionally go fishing too. That hardly constitutes chasing. When I check into the net, it's as KD0TAZ MOBILE. I have never been told that my reports were not welcome because I am MOBILE.

I assume this is the Topeka office we're talking about. They are one that I haven't received a reply about their ham program, so I can't give you anything useful except that their WCM is Chad.Omitt (at) noaaDOTgov. Did you happen to get the NCO's call?

 

[Keith Hosman]

I am the net control for 2 counties, and a good many of our spotters are mobile even have a couple that are regional truck drivers. As far as chasers go, myself and my boss the EMA director appreciate chasers because many times they will be in an area where we ado not have any spotters in the field, I can follow them on SN and "see" what they are seeing. This is really nice when they are streaming live video. So if any of you are ever chasing in NW Ohio you'll never hear anything negative from us. And if you are a ham, feel free to give a shout on 147.315 + or 147.195 +, both open repeaters with no PL.

I've traveled a lot over the last 20 years on disaster response/relief (hurricanes/floods/tornados) and have run into situations like the original poster described, In these cases if they do not wish to take my report if I have the toll free NWS spotter hotline I report that way, if not I'll call the local dispatch and inform them of what I am seeing and they can/will pass it through to the NWS.

 

[rdale]

I would guess it could depend on the WFO, but around here the WCM oversees the groups running the radios. Nothing is final until the WCM indicates so.

That doesn't make sense... Are you saying that there are WCMs who tell Skywarn groups to not accept report from mobile spotters?

It may be more of a liability issue as he indicated he would go out into the storm and have a look see.

Educate me... What liability could there be for a NCS accepting reports from a spotter who goes mobile?

Please refer to this webpage for more information on what the NWS thinks of mobile spotting/chasing.

Bad link - that refers to chasing. 1) That's common sense, as NWS will not tell people to chase. 2) It only refers to chasing, not mobile spotting. Those are two very different venues.

 

[Rob H]

Can we please stop that quote from being trotted out in any discussion even remotely related to chasing and mobile spotting? What do you expect the NWS to say? "Please, everyone go out and try to drive into a tornado... FOR SCIENCE!"

 

[Tyler Allison]

Wait until FEMA / NHC start "encouraging" hurricane chaser reports. Then the arm chair liability lawyers are going to come out in droves.

Ask the proper question and you'll get a proper answer.

Q: Will you accept a report from someone who is putting themselves in danger and doing something you wouldn't personally do?
A: Yes

Q: Would you advise/encourage/train/expect said person to be doing what he/she is doing?
A: No

Depending on your opinion of X activity you can justify or condemn said activity by picking and choosing which question/answer you use as evidence.

-Tyler

 

[Tim Shriver]

That doesn't make sense... Are you saying that there are WCMs who tell Skywarn groups to not accept report from mobile spotters?



Educate me... What liability could there be for a NCS accepting reports from a spotter who goes mobile?



Bad link - that refers to chasing. 1) That's common sense, as NWS will not tell people to chase. 2) It only refers to chasing, not mobile spotting. Those are two very different venues.

1. Can't help it if you did not understand it rdale.
2. Ask a lawyer.
3. Didnt say that, read it again slowly.

Tim

 

[rdale]

Sheez - I forgot who I was replying to! I did make a casual check with MKX and they do accept mobile spotter reports, so check with your supervisor again and he'll set you straight.

2) I did ask a lawyer. I'm married to one. She says no liability, so the burden is on you to back up what you said.

3) I read it again. It still doesn't refer to mobile spotters. Could you put it in italics for people like me? Or are you making that up too?

 

[David Drummond]

Some days I can't tell any more if I am on the StormTrack forums, or the QRZ forums.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Sheez - I forgot who I was replying to! I did make a casual check with MKX and they do accept mobile spotter reports, so check with your supervisor again and he'll set you straight.

2) I did ask a lawyer. I'm married to one. She says no liability, so the burden is on you to back up what you said.

3) I read it again. It still doesn't refer to mobile spotters. Could you put it in italics for people like me? Or are you making that up too?

I never said KMKX did not take reports from mobile spotters or even chasers. Please show me where I said that about KMKX?

Rusty does oversee SWARA which is the group of hams running the radios at KMKX. Did you ask them about that?

As for liability if someone directs a spotter or chaser into a dangerous situation and they get hurt or killed their is a cause for liability. As per our spotter group legal adviser.

What did you mean by "Sheez - I forgot who I was replying to!"?
Can't you keep things civil?

Tim

 

[Tim Shriver]

Some days I can't tell any more if I am on the StormTrack forums, or the QRZ forums.

I agree and am sorry that whenever I post something certain folks have to
do what they do, in the manner that they do it in.

It is not my intent to have this happen. But I cannot help that some folks seem
to have a chip on their shoulder 24/7.

Tim

 

[Karen St John]

Can we please stop that quote from being trotted out in any discussion even remotely related to chasing and mobile spotting? What do you expect the NWS to say? "Please, everyone go out and try to drive into a tornado... FOR SCIENCE!"

As long as they don't say "Please, everyone go out and try to drive into a tornado, and quit calling us..."

 

[J Tyler]

My wife and I have been very fortunate. The spotter net out of Little Rock treated us like family when we went over there last year. All the nets we found in Oklahoma, the same thing, as well as when we would work directly with the Ft Worth NWS office when we would be out rural (no net) and they would work with us directly.

BUT, I know exactly what the OP is talking about. Old Man with A Little Power Syndrome. I think it is pathetic that people like him are willing to put the publics life in danger because he is a petty jerk off. The fact is.....Neither HE, nor the spotter net *ASKED YOU* to go chasing a tornado. The FACT is....YOU chose to put yourself where you are, and YOU are offering the information on what you see. So, I wonder.....If you called in that a wedge tornado was on the ground heading directly towards a daycare center and baby seal hospital, WOULD HE REALLY IGNORE YOUR REPORT? Of course not.

I say, make his life miserable. Write a carefully written letter.

 

[J Holder]

Mobile spotting and chasing are two entirely different things. I don't spot from my back yard, I don't have a good view. If I'm not going out to chase, I have a spot that I go to where I sit and watch and take pictures. There's a lake right there so I occasionally go fishing too. That hardly constitutes chasing. When I check into the net, it's as KD0TAZ MOBILE. I have never been told that my reports were not welcome because I am MOBILE.

I assume this is the Topeka office we're talking about. They are one that I haven't received a reply about their ham program, so I can't give you anything useful except that their WCM is Chad.Omitt (at) noaaDOTgov. Did you happen to get the NCO's call?

I'm an assistant EC for Zone Alpha-One ARES, which covers Shawnee (Topeka) and Wabaunsee counties. What kind of information are you looking for? I can tell you we will send volunteers into the field and position them as needed if we have the available folks to do so. The only tiem we won't do this is at night, although I've been known to follow behind storms warned via radar in an attempt to find damage, dmage paths, debris hitting power lines, etc.

I believe the OP was referring to Pleasant Hill as they were looking for Leavenworth county information. IIRC there are multiple Skywarn/ARES/RACES groups in the KC area that run their own operation and relay reports to NWS Pleasant Hill via the 82 machine over there. Every group has a different way of running their show in their county and I would suspect that being a chaser he's running around across several separate Skywarn areas of operation, each with its own protocol.