Chronicle of Higher Education interview with Reed Timmer

[Jason Foster]

Well....there is a HUGE key word that Trimmer (spelled that way on purpose...SEO defiant) uses and EMPHASIZES......his research is "privately funded". One part of the show that did seem to argue this point that was slightly accurate...the riff between the two camps regarding data acquisition. While neither is going to speak too far against the other (in case actual results are gained), but 'suggestion' by some that others are less than pro about it is a real feeling.

The thing with this 'private' funding is that he may likely be contractually obligated to hold the data until it is released. This would be especially true if Original Media/Discovery communications has part funding into this and is part of future storylines. Think along the lines of drug/biomedical companies....not ones to go around openly sharing information. Not common in the weather world, but neither is a large, decently rated TV show either. Can't assume the norms here.

 

[Matt Hunt]

All assumptions. Anyone I've seen who dislikes Reed, it is based on assumptions. Heck, you can say that for any celebrity. That's my whole point. Don't knock a guy based on your assumptions of what's going on. Chances are they don't line up with the reality. We all know what happens when we ASS-U-ME. However he got the money, whatever his plans are with the data, or what he's contractually obligated to do or not do, that's his business as far as I'm concerned, and I couldn't care less.

As far as the scientific side bringing legitimacy to the show... I'd say that's why Samaras is there. BUT, let's face it, the show has done well because of the incredible footage and DRAMA, which is what all of these shows focus on. If it was all about the science, only the true weather nerds would care to watch. They're shooting for a larger demographic than just scientists and storm chasers. That wouldn't be a large enough market for the show to be a success. I know plenty of people who watch the show and don't care to ever storm chase themselves, or about any scientific data gathered.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

Hopefully his PhD committee will require publication in order to graduate. I can almost guarantee I will be required to publish at least part of my PhD research before I graduate. From my department I can only recall one graduating without a publication because he had a job lined up (he was/and still is expected to finish a paper). It would be a shame that OU would not require future PhD researchers to prove they can produce publishable research. As far as I am aware he only has one paper where he is a author on a parametrization scheme for some utility use. I can't say much though, I only have two in radio astronomy from my undergrad, and presently working on another (hopefully on Pluto's atmosphere).

 

[rdale]

I figured I'd read some more Reed Timmer hate comments in here.

Fortunately it looks like the mods deleted those, that kind of post would be inappropriate.

You guys are judging based on what you see on TV and in the press (we should all be smart enough to know that "reality" TV doesn't always portray the TRUE reality).

Actually no, I'm speaking based on the research journals. If he is going to publish data later, then so be it. But you can't claim to be advancing the warning process if there's nothing out there with your name which advances the process.

 

[Logan Karsten]

I could care less how his research is being funded. He has been doing this for several years now, and I have yet to see one published piece of research that either has his name on it, or gives credit to his data that he collected. Until I see that happen, I will continue to question the legitimacy of his research goals. Has he collected valuable research data? It's certainly possible, but he has never stated any specific plans on what he wants to do with that data. If this is privately funded, then perhaps one can look at what published science those people/company have accomplished. These questions remain unanswered. What people don't realize is you don't see the real researchers that are putting out research results, thinking up the newest hypothesis on tornado genesis, or out in the field collecting data, with a camera on them at all times trying to stir up drama. The only one we have seen is Josh Wurman. Do we see Chuck Doswell, Howard Bluestein, or Ming Xue in front of a Discover Channel camera trying to get the best footage? We never hear about those who have spent the better part of their lives devoted to severe weather research, yet they have made some of the greatest contributions. The guy may be the nicest person in the world, and he may have a very busy schedule, but that doesn't excuse him from putting on this show of "I am trying to get good footage of these storms so I can fund my invaluable tornado research that may save lives". Again, it's a blatant slap in the face of all those who have devoted their lives to publishing cutting edge science but have never put themselves in the spot light for financial gain.

 

[Brett Nickeson]

Not to ruffle any feathers with my first post, and I'm certainly no Reed apologist, but I'm curious how many people realize how long field research and data analysis can take, let along the time required to put together a publishable paper. I have no idea if he plans on publishing anything in the future or if his research is just a stunt, but given the fact that he has only had significant instrumentation on his vehicle since last year, I doubt that is anywhere near enough time to formulate publishable work or gather significant data. Hell, Vortex 2 involved dozens of vehicles, scientists, and instrumentation arrays and unless I've missed them, I haven't seen any significant published research come directly out of that effort yet either. It takes time.

I think most everyone understands that Reed and a majority of other chasers do it largely for the thrill and occasionally for business. If something good comes from the data due to his rise to fame then better for everyone.

 

[rdale]

Hell, Vortex 2 involved dozens of vehicles, scientists, and instrumentation arrays and unless I've missed them, I haven't seen any significant published research come directly out of that effort yet either.It takes time.

I see where you're coming from, but ... http://www.eol.ucar.edu/projects/vortex2/publications/publication_refs.html

And I realize part of it is due to TV, but I don't understand why chasers can't be on TV saying "We love the thrill of the chase." Believable, and true. Saying "Someday we want to publish research and save more lives" year after year can get a little old after a while.

Dr Doswell had an interesting (well, all of his are interesting ) related blog last week:

"Reed (and/or the Discovery Channel) seems still to believe that his calling in tornado reports was a significant contribution to the saving of lives on 27 April. Wrong! I have serious doubts that any chaser reports made any significant difference to the outcome on 27 April. That day's tornado outbreak is not the kind of event where chaser reports are going to make much of a difference in terms of saving lives -- see here for a discussion. How much science (of the sort associated with peer-reviewed scientific journal papers) has Reed actually contributed to the problem of tornadoes? Precisely ... zip! He may have the degrees to call himself a meteorologist, but he's not yet demonstrated by his publications that he's a scientist."

http://cadiiitalk.blogspot.com/2011/05/growing-sense-of-revulsion.html

 

[Todd Renshaw]

Keep in mind that this article and the tv show put their own spin on things to make their subjects appear to be noble saviors. Reed may be uncomfortable with that portrayal. Obviously, he plays along with it, but he may still be uncomfortable with it. (He seemed a bit embarrassed by the Storm Chasers footage shown during his ChaserCon presentation.)

There are plenty of things Reed does that bother me. (How do I get myself into the situation of defending him?! Sheesh.) But he's just one guy (with a big mouth) that's had the good fortune to get himself on a semi-popular tv show. His "research" is obviously small-time. He's probably just having fun doing his thing, getting to add all kinds of cool gadgets to his vehicle, like a kid enjoying "research" with his chemistry set. If someday he puts that data on the web for all to see and it is of some value to some scientist, great. I really don't expect a peer-reviewed article to come of it, but so what. (His dissertation is on a completely unrelated subject. Was it the effect of climate change on crop yields or something?)

I guess I'm trying to say, get over it. He is what he is. It may bother us that the show plays up the manufactured drama and the "saving lives" stuff, but the rest of the audience really doesn't notice. He and Storm Chasers may be a bad influence on the wannabes, but the show won't last forever. Eventually, those sorts will move on the the next big thing. And Reed will go back to just being one chaser among many.

 

[Chad Ringley]

Keep in mind that this article and the tv show put their own spin on things to make their subjects appear to be noble saviors. Reed may be uncomfortable with that portrayal. Obviously, he plays along with it, but he may still be uncomfortable with it. (He seemed a bit embarrassed by the Storm Chasers footage shown during his ChaserCon presentation.)

There are plenty of things Reed does that bother me. (How do I get myself into the situation of defending him?! Sheesh.) But he's just one guy (with a big mouth) that's had the good fortune to get himself on a semi-popular tv show. His "research" is obviously small-time. He's probably just having fun doing his thing, getting to add all kinds of cool gadgets to his vehicle, like a kid enjoying "research" with his chemistry set. If someday he puts that data on the web for all to see and it is of some value to some scientist, great. I really don't expect a peer-reviewed article to come of it, but so what. (His dissertation is on a completely unrelated subject. Was it the effect of climate change on crop yields or something?)

I guess I'm trying to say, get over it. He is what he is. It may bother us that the show plays up the manufactured drama and the "saving lives" stuff, but the rest of the audience really doesn't notice. He and Storm Chasers may be a bad influence on the wannabes, but the show won't last forever. Eventually, those sorts will move on the the next big thing. And Reed will go back to just being one chaser among many.

Excellent post. I'd like to add a little flavor for what it's worth...

Reed is, and always has been, an extremely passionate and wildly successful chaser. For example...he would drive to the Canadian border from Norman to chase a borderline slight risk day with a shotty radiator, and this was a decade ago. He didn't do it for money, or fame, or anything. This was WAY before privately funded research, before "Storm Chasers" was ever a concept for Discovery. He has always took things to the next level, that's just who he is.

He's a very smart scientist who has gotten an opportunity to take a hobby, one in which he was already extreme about, and turn it into something bigger. Yes, for money and fame. People hate that, but the reality is...I think a lot of people would jump at that chance. I may get flamed for that comment, but I think it's true.

I also wouldn't be surprised, as an earlier poster mentioned, that the data he is gathering from privately funded research has restrictions on publication, distribution, and release. This is often the case with any privately funded, corporation-led project. At some point, I'd expect to see it released to the public, and done so in a way to benefit the corporations who funded it. It's not surprising to me no publications have come from it.

 

[rdale]

He and Storm Chasers may be a bad influence on the wannabes, but the show won't last forever. Eventually, those sorts will move on the the next big thing.

That's an interesting perspective... Since chasing has been growing non-stop since Twister, and SC certainly has helped the push, what might the "next big thing" be to replace it?

 

[Todd Renshaw]

That's an interesting perspective... Since chasing has been growing non-stop since Twister, and SC certainly has helped the push, what might the "next big thing" be to replace it?

Bieber-fever?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 20 characters.

Don't you hate that?!

 

[Jason Foster]

That's an interesting perspective... Since chasing has been growing non-stop since Twister, and SC certainly has helped the push, what might the "next big thing" be to replace it?

or even since the first TWC series (~1995...before twister) and the advent of the internet (~ 1993). Yeah....folks need to get use to the idea that chasing will likely never return to the way it was. It's mainstream now, part of the collective experience of the general public. Reed, even without a TV show will be a PR whore looking to make lots of money. He's lived the life now....certainly isn't going to just say (when the show is canceled)..."well that was fun, guess I'll go back and just be part of the average now". It is quite possible he will push, kick and scratch to be a big name. Does he have larger sights set....LIKELY. Most of us are no different....we are all pushing to do more...not less. His PhD will open more doors (once achieved). Even if he's turned down, he'll try again.

Doswell is an interesting read at times. However, this scientist association is an elites attitude that shows more condescension than I feel comfortable with. There are thousands of scientists that have no degrees and do not publish papers....sorry Doswell....that's the truth. But I'm use to seeing this attitude. It's pretty prevalent around here...especially the closer to the NSF HQ & AAAS (in DC area) you get. It's like the a-holes that tried to sue people (like myself) who called themselves Architects. While I may not have achieved my degree, when I started...I did not need one to become registered. The elites changed that. So then folks tried to sue...they failed. I've got 12 years experience as an Architect...and while many hate that I can call myself that w/out the degree...but the courts have spoken! BOTTOMLINE: stop worrying about names Doswell...keep your arguments on results (which you are right about Reeds lack of....so far).

 

[Todd Renshaw]

...It's like the a-holes that tried to sue people (like myself) who called themselves Architects. While I may not have achieved my degree, when I started...I did not need one to become registered. The elites changed that. So then folks tried to sue...they failed. I've got 12 years experience as an Architect...and while many hate that I can call myself that w/out the degree....

Jason, somewhat of a tangent, but perhaps related to Reed and your troubles; I've always felt the old "who has more integrity" game is a trap. (That sort of thing has bugged me about some of the controversial threads lately.) Who is qualified to judge? If you do something well, others value your work and it makes you happy, cool. Too many people want to tear down the other guy as not "real". (Again, there are plenty of things that bother me about Reed, but I can't fault his passion, commitment and brains.)

 

[Steve Miller]

It's like the a-holes that tried to sue people (like myself) who called themselves Architects. While I may not have achieved my degree, when I started...I did not need one to become registered. The elites changed that. So then folks tried to sue...they failed. I've got 12 years experience as an Architect...and while many hate that I can call myself that w/out the degree...but the courts have spoken!

Does this mean I'm a Meteorologist?

 

[rdale]

However, this scientist association is an elites attitude that shows more condescension than I feel comfortable with. There are thousands of scientists that have no degrees and do not publish papers....sorry Doswell....that's the truth.

...and I've yet to see him say that meteorologists who chase but don't publish are "lesser" people. But you can't claim to improve warning lead times, or decrease FARs, or have a better way to automatically detect a TVS through a new algorithm if you keep all the info to yourself. If you come up with the best idea ever, guaranteed to detect 100% of all tornadoes with no false alarms but don't tell anyone about it -- then what good is it? If you don't put it through peer review, then maybe you just stumbled on a coincidence [sort of like the Washington Redskins home record predicting presidential outcomes.]

That shouldn't be considered "elitism." That's just the scientific method.