Chasing Dennis

[Chris Sokol]

Originally posted by Michael Gribble+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Michael Gribble)</div>

First of all, there is no way that I am going to put myself in a situation where I would require emergency services. I found your comment stating otherwise to be borderline ridiculous[/b]

By simply putting yourself into a situation that you are unfamiliar with, in an area that you are unfamiliar with, you are doing exactly this.

<!--QuoteBegin-Michael Gribble

\"Don't know the area\"? What does that have to do with anything?

Everything.

Originally posted by Michael Gribble

I do believe that I am fully prepared to make it through a strong hurricane unharmed. I respect your opinion, but I think you are out of your element on this one.

I think Amos is right on target with this one.

I (as many others have) started out intercepting smaller tropical systems. I would have never considered chasing a major cane as my first, second, or even third attempt. There are WAY too many variables. An area that appears to be safe could actually be a high water channel during a storm surge. Wind speed and direction can be affected by numerous variables. As with anything, experienc is the most important element of hurricane chasing. Just like racing...you don't start out in a Nextel Cup series car, you start out in a factory stock car on a dirt track.

Nobody is saying that you have no business chasing hurricanes...what they are saying is that you shouldn't start out with a major cane. You start with small events and work your way up to the big ones. As for Dennis, the point of landfall will determine if I choose to intercept this storm or not. If Dennis makes landfall in an area that I am familiar with, I will definately be there. If not, I will most likely sit this one out. I only wish that I had 1/10 of the experience and knowledge that the Weathervine crew has. They are probably the most knowledgable and experienced hurricane intercept group that exists, outside of the Air Force Hurricane Hunters.

Even experienced chasers occasionally find themselves in trouble. To sit here and say that you will not put yourself into a situation that would require you to need emergency services is totally unrealistic, especially given that fact that you have never done this before. A hurricane is not something that you can drive 1/2 mile either direction and get into a safer position.

Hey...it's your choice. You can either choose to listen to the advice of your peers, or you can go John Wayne. But unlike the movies, in real life the cowboy does not always ride off into the sunset.

 

[Darin Brunin]

Sorry to interupt guys but.....

This thread was originally started by Mike M. and I to see if there would be anyone interested in showing us the ropes of hurricane chasing so we don't put ourselves in danger. And there has not been one reply that answers the question asked. Can we please return back to the original topic please. Maybe there should be a hurricane intercept safety thread started but this was not the original intent that Mike and I had when he started this thread last night. So with all due respect can this please stop.

Darin

 

[Darin Brunin]

Yeah Alex I worded that a little wrong. I know that anyone who intercepts a hurricane is going to be in danger. What I meant is stuff like Chris pointed out in his post like intercepting in a high water channel. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

Chris said...
"By simply putting yourself into a situation that you are unfamiliar with, in an area that you are unfamiliar with, you are doing exactly this."

Why don't you tell me exactly how I am putting myself into a situation that is going to require emergency services by chasing a hurricane in an area I am not familiar with. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Is it not safe to chase a hurricane unless you live where it is going to hit? What is "knowing the area" going to do for me that a topographical map and scouting the area are not going do for me? I really think you are riding a dead horse on this "knowing the area" thing. 99% of the chasers that will be on Dennis won't know the area until 48-72 hours before it hits.
Do you guys think that those of us that are planning on chasing a hurricane haven't put any thought into this? I know I need to anticipate storm surge. Topographical maps solve that problem. I know there is no power. That is why I have batteries and a generator. I know what the winds in a hurricane are like. I have been in winds >100mph. My point is that the people that are considering chasing hurricanes are well aware of what's involved and are doing there best to prepare for it.

Chris said...
"To sit here and say that you will not put yourself into a situation that would require you to need emergency services is totally unrealistic"

There are any number of things that you can do to help prevent a crisis when chasing a hurricane. I think a lot of these preventitive measures carry over from chasing supercells, such as recognizing before hand what structures are likely to turn into debris, anticipating wind direction, finding several safe spots, etc. People who end up needing emergency services, more than likely, were doing something that they shouldn't have been doing. I take chasing a hurricane very seriously and I don't want to die. Avoiding the embarrasment associated with being rescued by emergency services is also pretty high on my list. Of course there are things that can happen that are out of your control, but the odds of these things happening can be mitigated to a great degree by being prepared and making smart decisions while out there. I don't see this as being unrealistic. I think it is unrealistic for you to expect me to make 3 or 4 trips down to the Gulf to experience 40kt winds before I am approved to go after a hurricane. I have been in the $hit more than once on tornadic supercells and I think I have kept my cool and made good decisions. I believe that counts for something.
We all have are own ideas of what is neccesary to stay safe. I may be wrong. You may be wrong. I don't think it is anyones place to try and shove their standards on someone else though. I really do appreciate all the advice I can get, even if that advice is "don't do it". I just wish the advice people were giving was more constructive rather than repeatedly telling me what they think I don't know. I got a PM from someone earlier about this topic and he pointed about a very good point. A large number of the experienced chasers that we all look up to started chasing with no experience. That is the way I am going into this and hopefully a few years from now I can post on here that I am planning on chasing a hurricane without getting bombarded with comments about why I'm not qualified because by then I will have experience.

Sorry to hijack your thread Darin. I didn't want to get into this kind of a discussion. I kind of got pulled into it.

 

[Mike Johnston]

Well, I've never "chased" a hurricane per se, but having lived in Virginia and Charleston, SC, and spent many August vacations on the Outer Banks of NC, I have been around and through a few, including Isabel still packing a pretty good punch. Yes, the environment is completely different due to the scale. I guess the way I would approach it is to start with the question "what is your objective?" I mean, do you want to stay within camera shot of the surf, watching the squalls and waves come in as long as possible in daylight hours? Barrier island beaches will likely be evacuated and blocked to traffic, but you'll probably be able to hang out a little longer around mainland beaches -- some of the funky little eating and drinking establishments along the beach like to stay open as long as the law allows -- kind of a badge of honor for their proprietors. You want to intercept the eye? Probably would want to hunker down at least a few miles inland from your forecast "target" and hope to get lucky, but it would be darn hard to get out in a car at that point and drive to it.

As far as what to take - take plenty of cash. Last year w/ Gaston, I recall stores trying to remain open even in absence of electricity, but could not process your debit/credit card. I don't know, the best thing is probably to actually stay w/ someone who has a substantial house close enough to the shore to be fun but still have a safe retreat. Of course, w/ a Cat 4 or 5 all bets are off and survival quickly becomes the priority.

 

[Chris Sokol]

One of the things that has worked well for me in the past is to talk to some of the locals...they know which areas flood during different types of precip events. IMO, water is the greatest danger that you face during a hurricane intercept, followed by wind/airborn projectiles. I learned the hard way about water channels...fortunately, I was on high ground, but I was cut off on 3 sides.

Pick a spot early, and then pick two alternate spots. Then locate at least 2 fallback locations per position, and map out the route to avoid low water crossings. Look closely at the type and location of structures around you, and how the wind will both effect and be effected by them...winds coming off of a structure or channeled by structures can locally enhance the windfield, and can also cause projectiles to come at you from directions that you would not expect.

Communication...VERY important. Cell phone coverage becomes sporatic to non-existant. CB Radio (usually worthless, but sometimes you can get somebody), ham radio...anything to keep in touch. Monitor the local public safety frequencies on a scanner, including utility, street dept, and even odd-ball frequencies like school bus, taxi, and even rail.

Finially, ALWAYS have an emergency plan. Take a medical kit, extra water and food, and at least two 5 gallon gas cans. Also, let your family know all of the locations that you have selected, and your general location. Last, but not least...have an ID card attached to your clothes, with address and phone, relatives contact info, and any medical information (conditions, allergies, blood type, etc) that you can provide.

 

[nickgrillo]

I am strongly intrested in chasing a hurricane this year... I would really love to expierence the power of one. I probably won't be able to go after this one, but I am thinking about chasing one this year...

 

[Robert Dewey]

I am strongly intrested in chasing a hurricane this year... I would really love to expierence the power of one. I probably won't be able to go after this one, but I am thinking about chasing one this year...

I'm a wind freak, so of course chasing a hurricane at some point in my life is a definite must. Don't ask me why, I just love intense wind. One of my favorite aspects is the deep roar which some winds produce, and I have heard that hurricanes are well known for such a "roar".

 

[David Wolfson]

I was very young when Carol hit eastern Massachusetts, but the memories are still vivid. It was an honest-to-goodness Cat 2 south of Boston. The pounding roar of the wind rising in waves, spinning a tornado-like whirpool of debris between our house and the one across the street. Watching the top fifty feet or so of the tall maple tree beside my friends house two doors down snap off, lift like a giant umbrella and blow clean away. And, most amazing of all -- the eye. My parents led me outside into the bright, hot sun, with gentle breezes stirring the debris for about ten minutes while the eye passed right over. One of the experiences that turned me into a minor league weather nut.

Well... on the topic. Fallen power lines are a big hazard, and the horizontally driven deluge gets into absolutely every crack and fissure.

 

[Mickey Ptak]

Good luck Michael G and keep safe. You have far bigger **lls than I do...

I think there will come a point in my chase carrier that I will start chasing tropical systems. Unlike Michael however, I will not do it alone and I will settle for nothing less than the best to learn from. If I never get a chance to learn from the best I will be copasetic with chasing supercells 500 miles from Oklahoma :roll:.

I have no advice to give pertaining to cane chasing so I am just adding to the never ending WAY off topic thread.

Again good luck MG and be safe.

Mick

 

[Craig Maire II]

Wow

I am very, very interested in possibly "chasing"/ intercepting hurricane Dennis and its associated tornados later this weekend early next week, IF I can get the money together. This would be my first hurricane; staying miles away from shore (avoiding the storm surge), avoiding areas prone to flooding etc. and finding a "sturdy" (concrete and steal reinforced building with upper floors) SHOULD keep me safe, IF I infact am able to go. Avoiding areas prone to flooding and storm surge is the most important thing a person can do during a hurricane, esp. since most people are killed by drowning. I too am a "wind freak"....

 

[Michael Forrester]

If this is going to be your first hurricane chase, take the good advice others have written. More gas, cash, water and food than you can imagine needing. Extra batteries, an extra spare tire, something to cover a car window that has been blown out. Plan on no power or water and all the conveniences they provide (ATM, gas, pizza, lodging).

My first hurricane was Dennis in 1999 in Wrightsville Beach. I'm a contract live shot photog for The Weather Channel and that was with Cantore. I've covered nearly every landfalling tropical system since, and last year was certainly the worst I've experienced. It was very difficult to find lodging - on top of all the other obstacles. I expect this year to be worse.

We all must be prepared to ask for emergency assistance - bad things happen whether you're driving down the interstate on a sunny day or standing in some windbreak from a landfalling hurricane.

I've met chasers from all over the country that stop by the satellite truck and say hello - many on their first chase. I doubt any perished in the storms. Most serious chasers seem to be highly aware of their surroundings.

While police have a job to do, you likely can find somewhere in the area to experience the storm - talk to locals (if you can find any) and stay a bit inland on higher ground. If you go, plan on arriving in a ghost town - residents have learned their lesson - they board up and leave. Businesses will already be closed.

Looking back, I would have to say that starting with a smaller storm would probably be a good idea. That said, all of us started chasing storms at some point, and if you've decided this is yours, be safe.

 

[Dan Robinson]

If Dennis is a Cat 5 or high-end Cat 4, I wouldn't choose this one for a chase, especially a first one. If you do choose to go, don't stay anywhere but in a massive, well-built concrete parking garage. Anything else will virtually guarantee damaging or totalling your car and significant risk to yourself as well. Even then there will be flying debris coming through the structure. Park your car somewhere shielded from wind and debris, like behind a concrete wall inside the structure. And make sure you're not downwind from something close with a lot of windows or other material that would pummel you if it became airborne. Make sure there is a place for you to go in the structure to hunker down.

Stay away from the coast. Concrete buildings might handle the winds but not high surge with large waves.

I can't imagine what a Category 5 or strong Cat 4 would be like. I'd love to find out, but the risks are too great.

If you go, just make sure you can find a strong shelter in time, and resist the temptation to reposition at the last minute if the eye wobbles away from your target. You might not be able to find another shelter before it's too late.

 

[MClarkson]

you should scout out a number of positions, perhaps every ~20 miles so that if you need to reposition because of a wobble you know exactly where you are going.

That got us in the eye of ivan.

Other possible positions are medical centers, schools, post offices, large hotels as these tend to made of steel and concrete as well.

 

[Aric Cylkowski]

The problems with chasing Dennis will be threefold, as already indicated by previous posts. Sorry to be Captain Obvious on some of this, but I think it needs to be said again:

1. Mandatory Evacuations are going to be a given on this one. With Cat 4 winds forecasted, law enforcement is going to be incredibly anal about anyone trying to remain or people coming to chase.

2. Existing damage is going to be a pain in the arse for anyone trying to chase the area. Damage to bridges, terrain, etc. are going to be a serious obsticle.

3. The absolute intensity of this storm is going to be another problem. Sure, some people may not mind that this could be a very powerful system on landfall, but newcomers may be a bit... overwhelmed.

Overall, if I were a hurricane chaser, I'd sit this one out. Its one of those safety vs. chasing scenarios where I'd gladly settle for watching CNN and having continuous access to GRLevel3.

Just my two cents.