Chasers obtaining useful data?

[Stan Rose]

I have to say that I mostly agree with this point of view. Don't get me wrong, I admire Reed Timmer as a forecaster, and he gets great video. No argument there at all. He is out there living his dream and having a good time with it, and I have to say there are probably many on this board (myself included) who would love to be in his shoes.

What I do take exception to however, are the claims that it is all done in the name of science. Reed Timmer is in the business of selling dramatic video, end of story. He is an exceptional marketer, and boatloads of toy rockets, quadcopter drones or any other toys thrown into tornadoes add to the drama of good footage, but the likelihood of these endeavors ever contributing to our understanding of severe weather is very remote.

The personal motivations that draw chasers out to the plains every year are as varied as the chasers themselves, but I have always believed in being on the level. I love science, sure, but that's not why I chase. I chase for the awesomeness of the storm, and the thrill of seeing what the atmosphere is capable of when it gets attitude.

My belief is that the "key" to unlocking the mystery of the tornado (if there really is such a thing) is currently hidden in the mountains of data that have already been gleaned from field efforts like VORTEX and others like it. All that is needed is for someone out there to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

John
VE4 JTH

That's the quote I have yet to see being made. But maybe Im just missing it. When you're in the business of documenting something that is making a lot of people's lives miserable, there is a certain expectation (by the public) that you are doing something to counter that negative aspect. So, it could be partly a rationalization that you are out there partly to "save lives" through increased understanding etc. That doesn't really seem that horrendous to me. But as for the claim it is "all" in the name of science, like i said, I must be missing it...

 

[Jeff Duda]

However, you have to ask yourself why the biggest names in chasing never join any discussion on ST or contribute anything back to chasing community in general.... but that's for another discussion.

This may be worthy of this thread. Who do you consider to be on this list of "biggest names in chasing"? I seem to recall a mass exodus to something called the CHaser Forum Discussion Group some 5-10 years ago (or maybe more). Is Stormtrack really the end-all-be-all of online chaser discussion? It probably isn't (although it probably isn't far from the top either, but that's beside the point). Everyone is free to do what they want, so chasers, even those pioneers who are still around, are free to discuss weather and storm chasing wherever they want. I don't think they have an obligation to speak on this forum. I also doubt you'll find many, if even one, among those group of chasers who would use the "I'm chasing to save lives" line. I almost think the media squeezes that out of people (i.e., forces them to use that line under the threat that they won't get to be on TV or in print news without saying it).

ANyway, perhaps this should be part of a new thread after all.

 

[rdale]

Hard to believe CFDG is almost 20 years old now... http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?14472-CFDG-Open-Letter-to-ST-Members

 

[Warren Faidley]

I want to point out that Mr. Timmer does a lot of good things also. I do believe he promotes severe weather awareness even though the means are sometimes misguided. But no one is above scrutiny... you need and sometimes deserve to be called out on your crap and it should make you a better chaser and person if you listen.

The few times I've conversed with him, I was impressed. He was quite considerate and respectful, considering the fact that I (and others) have called him out on these very issues. None the less, as I've learned the hard way myself, when you mix business with chasing s*&^ happens -- and it can spin out of control. I also believe the lure of chasing-derived money can make you do some stupid things, especially when a sensationalized-lusting public is the driving force.

W.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Hard to believe CFDG is almost 20 years old now... http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?14472-CFDG-Open-Letter-to-ST-Members

Not to go off-topic, but it was interesting to go back and read that. Trouble is, seven years later, it seems as if CFDG has indeed siphoned the veterans out of ST, even if that was not the intent...

 

[rdale]

I doubt that, I think the vets that didn't leave years ago just found other outlets for chatting (and don't really have interest in sharing insight with others anyways.)

 

[Rob H]

However, you have to ask yourself why the biggest names in chasing never join any discussion on ST or contribute anything back to chasing community in general....

That's a pretty simple answer - the chasing community is horrible for the most part. You have the whackers with the storm chasing badges and the TWISTEX/Andy G obsession, you have a group of people with the "f you, I got mine" attitude that would probably step over the body of another chaser to get "the shot", you have people white-knighting/playing devil's advocate/arguing semantics just because someone is partially wrong on the internet and they have to set the world right, you have the downright crazy people that threaten to shoot other chasers and stalk the small number of women in this hobby. That's just a start.

Reed, Sean, etc. have very little to gain from interacting with people that bicker and whine all day long, and take an incredible number of shots at them (like I admittedly did back in the day). In my mind, the biggest loss with Tim is that he still took the time to mingle here, and talk to people extensively that weren't necessary "important" in chasing. He was just a good guy that filtered out all the bs because he was genuinely interested in other people and thought that everyone had something to bring to the table.

Anyways, I've been a part of various communities over the years, and while they all have drama and ego to some degree, storm chasers find a way to turn it up to 11. I don't blame anyone for wanting to stay out of it.

 

[chrisbray]

That's a pretty simple answer - the chasing community is horrible for the most part. You have the whackers with the storm chasing badges and the TWISTEX/Andy G obsession, you have a group of people with the "f you, I got mine" attitude that would probably step over the body of another chaser to get "the shot", you have people white-knighting/playing devil's advocate/arguing semantics just because someone is partially wrong on the internet and they have to set the world right, you have the downright crazy people that threaten to shoot other chasers and stalk the small number of women in this hobby. That's just a start.

Reed, Sean, etc. have very little to gain from interacting with people that bicker and whine all day long, and take an incredible number of shots at them (like I admittedly did back in the day). In my mind, the biggest loss with Tim is that he still took the time to mingle here, and talk to people extensively that weren't necessary "important" in chasing. He was just a good guy that filtered out all the bs because he was genuinely interested in other people and thought that everyone had something to bring to the table.

Anyways, I've been a part of various communities over the years, and while they all have drama and ego to some degree, storm chasers find a way to turn it up to 11. I don't blame anyone for wanting to stay out of it.

While relatively new to the ST community, I will say that my third year here is coming up and I have found this place to be nothing but helpful and filled with respectful, fun people. And the few people I have met out in the field have been very nice too. however, I have never chased OK/KS and only been to eastern nebraska once on a clear sky bust. Mostly i've just been in Illinois/Iowa/Indiana. So maybe I have missed out on all the fun of chaser convergence etc in the great plains.

 

[Rob H]

While relatively new to the ST community, I will say that my third year here is coming up and I have found this place to be nothing but helpful and filled with respectful, fun people. And the few people I have met out in the field have been very nice too. however, I have never chased OK/KS and only been to eastern nebraska once on a clear sky bust. Mostly i've just been in Illinois/Iowa/Indiana. So maybe I have missed out on all the fun of chaser convergence etc in the great plains.

That's great!

The #1 thing I'd recommend to new people just getting into the hobby (besides being safe) is to not worry about chasing for acceptance, or Facebook fans, or video/photography sales. It sucks the fun out of things. I'm a little negative about it because I'm really burnt out on it, so I apologize for that. If you want to see the negative side or the people claiming that they're chasing for science and saving lives, hop on Facebook and start friending chasers until you have about 150+ friends in common with any random chaser. That's probably a large enough sample size to get a good whiff of the hog farm

edit: Stan, I'm sorry I ignored your question, but I think you're taking things too literally, and I didn't want to start an argument. I don't literally have a list of 99 chasers - the point is that it seems out of the pool of people claiming to chase to save lives and get useful data, an overwhelming majority are full of beans. Like I said above, if you're not aware of this go ahead and add a few hundred chasers on Facebook, start reading Reed's wall, etc. and I guarantee you'll see what others in this thread are talking about.

I don't know why people can't just enjoy storms and why they feel the need to justify it. I like your suggestion that they're defending it to the public, but I've honestly never had anyone criticize me for enjoying weather. It seems much more likely that these people get an inflated sense of self-worth by convincing themselves that they are performing a public service.

I might actually be able to come up with a list of 99 if I was really bored, but I'll just start you off with the 6 that most recently come to mind:

http://www.iowachase.com/team-dorthy/

 

[chrisbray]

Nah, i've been ametuer chasing for almost ten years now, but until 2011 did not actually put in the effort to learn the meteorology behind the storms and was basically just chasing the SPC outlooks. My limited budget and family obligations prevent me from really doing much chasing outside of Illinois, but I'm planning on going to Kansas with my dad in June, so hopefully that pans out. And some day, when I can afford it, I plan on going on a week long chase vacation with my friend, and we will really be able to experience great plains storms!

I happily share my photos with real life friends, but beyond that I have never thought about chasing as something to gain followers/fans etc. I just REALLY enjoy storms and I'm glad I found a place to share that passion.

And yeah as an aside, coming up on my ten year chase-aversary and still only one tornado seen (june 5 2010 Magnolia-Streator IL tornado). Missed out on several Illinois outbreaks due to important events (Missed the perfect backyard chase June 7 2008 while on honeymoon, missed last year's november outbreak because my daughter's 5th birthday party was on that very day...) plus my friend/chase partner has NEVER seen a tornado after 10 years so, if there is an event in Illinois this year we WILL nail it...

 

[Michael Gavan]

Nah, i've been ametuer chasing for almost ten years now, but until 2011 did not actually put in the effort to learn the meteorology behind the storms and was basically just chasing the SPC outlooks. My limited budget and family obligations prevent me from really doing much chasing outside of Illinois, but I'm planning on going to Kansas with my dad in June, so hopefully that pans out. And some day, when I can afford it, I plan on going on a week long chase vacation with my friend, and we will really be able to experience great plains storms!

I happily share my photos with real life friends, but beyond that I have never thought about chasing as something to gain followers/fans etc. I just REALLY enjoy storms and I'm glad I found a place to share that passion.

And yeah as an aside, coming up on my ten year chase-aversary and still only one tornado seen (june 5 2010 Magnolia-Streator IL tornado). Missed out on several Illinois outbreaks due to important events (Missed the perfect backyard chase June 7 2008 while on honeymoon, missed last year's november outbreak because my daughter's 5th birthday party was on that very day...) plus my friend/chase partner has NEVER seen a tornado after 10 years so, if there is an event in Illinois this year we WILL nail it...

Streator was my first as well (It's my avatar --Lucky for me it was my first year "chasing" outside of Michigan/Indiana, and a decent redemption for missing Bowdle, SD and then Faith, SD both by about 20 minutes. Good luck this June. I had a 2 year drought full of let downs, bad timing, bad luck, almost-maybe-near-miss-nado's etc that ended with Rozel, KS and Wichita in a very big way. I've finally worked my way into taking 2-3 week chasecations every May and mine's coming up in a few.

Even within that first year, I noticed a lot of drama going on. Drama I couldn't possibly begin to understand or fathom yet. But I will add that it is almost all hear-say. I've never been involved in the drama or witnessed it first hand. Personally every chaser I've met in person has been pleasant and interesting to talk to....From the celeb types down to the first timers I've come across.

As for data contribution....I think the save lives part is getting mixed with the research part as though they go together. I think its sort of like finding an asteroid headed for earth. Until you find one, your just taking pictures of black and stars. Enough people putting enough probes into enough tornadoes for a long enough time, combined with some collaboration might someday reveal useful data that helps us understand storm anatomy a little better....Then that could translate into better positioning for spotters, better media coverage and more specific warnings. However, As recent tragedies have shown....Better construction, awareness, and education will save lives far better than lead times. Warning lead times could be 7 hours....It won't make a trailer any safer....It won't mean someone got the message...It's not enough time to build a storm shelter....and it won't mean someone knows what to do--what to look for--and where to go. I'm hearing too many injured people tell the news "There was no warning" while they've been inside a purple polygon for 45 minutes playing on facebook. Saving Lives and research aren't directly linked...But spotting and chasing and calling in reports likely saves lives. If you can get GPS track of a probe inside a noodle while your at it by all means. If nothing else It's neat.

 

[J Allen]

I'd direct people to look at this thread for an example of how chasers could provide useful information to science.
http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?30114-El-Reno-Survey-Request

While this is a test case for how we collect and make such data useful to science, I think it points the way towards tapping an thus far unused resource. There is more about the project at http://el-reno-survey.net/ - but pretty soon we will be releasing a set of suggestions about what chasers could do to make their chasing activities more useful to science. I really feel that this is a way for the chasers who claim to be interested in assisting in the science to contribute to the research. While I can't share any of the results as of yet, I can assure you - there is some really interesting information to be had there. We will have an initial publication on the project later this year (and will be presenting at a large stage conference in August), so stay tuned for that.

As a final plug - if you haven't already, please contribute a survey form and share your footage and story. All rights are retained by the respective photographers and data will only be used for scientific purposes. We have more than 75 accounts and footage sets already from people who were chasing El Reno last year, and every perspective represents an important contribution.