Beware!... $105 citation for camera/mount on windshield

[James Weatherman]

Police vehicles are exempt from many laws that civilian vehicles must abide by. It's like trying to get out of a speeding ticket because you bought a little radar gun and clocked a cop going over the speed limit.

Yes and no on that. They still must meet the same standard and about the only thing that could be different was the tinting on a K-9 unit aand that was more for the protection of the dog. When I was a police officer we had to make sure everything was within standards that everyone else had. The radar was dash mounted and the cameras were up by the rear view mirrors out of the way. This was Kansas can't speak for other states. The questions that I seen a lot people saying they were asked is just basic things we were trained to ask. I hated writting tickets and in fact that is one of the reasons I got out of it because they did want us to write at least 25 a month. I did not feel like taking money from people just to fill the quota we were given.

 

[Steven Marshall]

Heck in texas its even illegal to sell um...uh... battery powered marital aids and they enforce it! Some women got arrested for having a "spince up your life" party a while back! Gees youd think they could find something better to do with their cops...like stopping drug runners.

I got pulled over south of Herford Tx last year...complete with lights and sirens....and i figured I was toast cause I was moving pretty good when I passed him sitting in a church parking lot. He came up to my window and said all he really wanted was to see our radar to see what was coming. Pretty nice guy too. For every jerk there is a good one.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

I have been fortunate and have nothing but positive encounters with law enforcement while out chasing. A couple of years ago coming back late one night from chasing in Nebraska I got pulled over for speeding by a KHP officer north of Salina. He saw my laptop and other gear and asked if I had been out storm chasing, he was very polite and respectful. I told him I was and we talked for a bit about the weather and he was interested in what I saw that day. He ended up letting me go with a warning.

A lot of times I've been pulled off and had an LEO approach me inquiring about the weather, what to expect and how bad I think it would be. Sometimes they ask to see radar, other times they like to swap stories about tornadoes we've seen. Each time they were nice and respectful. Sometimes I wonder about the number of people who happen to have bad encounters with law enforcement, what I mean is in the 12 years that I've been storm chasing all throughout the Midwest I have yet to ever come across any of the hundreds of bad LEO's you hear about. It makes me think that there has to be something more to it that is setting the officer off making them hateful than what is being told to us. I know sometimes people will get pulled over and they get all pissy about it and get an attitude towards the cop, and it shows. Maybe it is unintentional, but I wonder if that's the case with some of the people who have bad encounters. I could be wrong, and I'm probably am wrong. Just a theory. I've encountered dozens of LEO while chasing, both local and state, and all of them were nothing but respectful and polite.

 

[James Weatherman]

Chasers are LEO's friend

I have been fortunate and have nothing but positive encounters with law enforcement while out chasing. A couple of years ago coming back late one night from chasing in Nebraska I got pulled over for speeding by a KHP officer north of Salina. He saw my laptop and other gear and asked if I had been out storm chasing, he was very polite and respectful. I told him I was and we talked for a bit about the weather and he was interested in what I saw that day. He ended up letting me go with a warning.

A lot of times I've been pulled off and had an LEO approach me inquiring about the weather, what to expect and how bad I think it would be. Sometimes they ask to see radar, other times they like to swap stories about tornadoes we've seen. Each time they were nice and respectful. Sometimes I wonder about the number of people who happen to have bad encounters with law enforcement, what I mean is in the 12 years that I've been storm chasing all throughout the Midwest I have yet to ever come across any of the hundreds of bad LEO's you hear about. It makes me think that there has to be something more to it that is setting the officer off making them hateful than what is being told to us. I know sometimes people will get pulled over and they get all pissy about it and get an attitude towards the cop, and it shows. Maybe it is unintentional, but I wonder if that's the case with some of the people who have bad encounters. I could be wrong, and I'm probably am wrong. Just a theory. I've encountered dozens of LEO while chasing, both local and state, and all of them were nothing but respectful and polite.

I know when I was working on the street and a storm was approaching I used the groups of chasers to help gauge things like where the storm might be since we did not have radar in our units. I also have stopped to talked to a few that were parked outside of town to find out how bad things were and where it was heading. There are jerks out there in the LEO world and those are the ones that seem to stick in the minds of everyone. It use to make me mad when I would talk to someone that another officer had talked to earlier about something but because that one officer had been a jerk I had to deal with the attitude and everything else that went with it. I always treated people with respect and treated them fair but was firm when I needed to be. Like I said I know a lot of the officers I worked with were interested in chasing and we used chasers to help out because you all have a lot better equipment then we did. We got everything from the NWS but it had to go through the dispatch which at times we had no idea of how up to date it was by the time it was being told to us.

 

[Justin Turcotte]

Seems like every state has one or more good intentioned-unintentional consequence laws. In Minnesota my NWR would be illegal in the car because it also serves as a (police) scanner. Scanners are only allowed in moving vehicles for licensed radio operators. Perhaps the state doesn't need my storm reports since the law doesn't allow me to easily use a tools that can help get me in position for ground truth. I should send a letter to the state legislature. I suspect most of the windshield obstruction laws on the books were made to limit radar detector use without outright banning the devices. These states will happily collect sales taxes on the gizmos.

These negative LE issues are like the evening news. You always hear about what's wrong outside first and don't get the cream puff story until after sports. Very few people are going to start a thread about a good experience with LE when chasing or otherwise but as we read here these positive experiences are plentiful. I've been pulled over three times in the last decade (thank you 18-wheeler for blocking the NSP near Sidney, NE to prevent a fourth). All three officers were polite and all left me with warnings. In one case I was entering a 4-lane and nearly cutoff the police officer because I thought he was in the other lane. One would think this offense would assure a ticket but this was not the case. Fortunately most traffic citations in North Dakota are less than $20 should someone feel the need for speed.

 

[Steve Worthington]

Kansas LEO`s have a quota?
Who would have thunk it ...rotflmao
Just kidding
It`s just funny to here someone say it after I`ve been told so many times that it`s not true....lol

 

[PaulChambers]

If a small camera is illegal...What about the fairly large GPS units that you see mounted right in the driver's view, either in the middle of the windshield or at driver's eye level just to the left, blocking the view of cross traffic??
Maybe something to bring up when you challenge the ticket.

Also, take a few photos of your camera from the driver's position in your car when you go to court.

And, most of all, present your case in a "professional" manner. It COULD be VERY meaningful to every chaser!!!

 

[Jason Foster]

Kansas LEO`s have a quota?
Who would have thunk it ...rotflmao
Just kidding
It`s just funny to here someone say it after I`ve been told so many times that it`s not true....lol

There is, but not necessary in the way you may be thinking. Officers are assessed on their productivity, including tickets, DUIs/DWIs, Susp.Drivers, etc. in addition to arrests, investigations, etc.

Some jurisdictions actually look at those for promotions and/or bonuses. It is also common that inner department rivalries play a part.

 

[Drew.Gardonia]

Yesterday my wife and I were chasing, heading out of KC on the turnpike. At the toll booth, we were pulled out of line by a Kansas State trooper. I had no idea why we were being stopped. He proceeded to lecture us on the fact that the camera and mount on the front windshield obscured the drivers vision. He asked what we were doing with the camera. (He could clearly see my laptop opened with a full screen Weathertap Radarlab image on it. He knew very well what we were doing.) I told him that we were storm chasing. That really set him off. He proceeded to run our license and plates, and then came back with a $105 ticket, saying that the camera "obscured the drivers view." He was totally condescending and very rude. I know that the fact we were storm chasers sealed the fate of getting a ticket. I have always had high regard for law enforcement. I haven't had a ticket in 15 years. Needless to say, my contributions that I have made in the past to the troopers fund is toast. I pay my taxes and am a law abiding citizen. If I'm one mile per hour over the speed limit then fine.. I'm guilty. But this is absurd! I plan on challenging the ticket as a matter of principle. It probably won't do any good, but at least I'll feel beter knowing I tried. I know that municipalities are cash strapped, but this is ridiculous. By the way, the footprint of the camera and mount is really not that big. It is a small Panasonic camera. The mount is one found on one of the Stormtrack threads that I purchased from "filmtools." It is a fanstastic mount, that many other chasers are probably using. Thanks for letting me vent! Heads up!

Bob Scott
Overland Park Kansas

Bob where exactly on your windshield did you have your camera mounted?

If it wasn't on the driver side, then there is no way it effected or obscured your vision.

I'd take a picture of where you had it mounted and show it to the judge. sounds like that cop was just being a douche for no reason.

I have no respect for LEO's that give nitpick tickets for bs reasons.

Relevent portion taken from the Texas transportation code:
Sec. 547.613. RESTRICTIONS ON WINDOWS. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a person commits an offense that is a misdemeanor:

(1) if the person operates a motor vehicle that has an object or material that is placed on or attached to the windshield or side or rear window and that obstructs or reduces the operator's clear view;

And for mobile TV,or video monitors:

Sec. 547.611. USE OF CERTAIN VIDEO EQUIPMENT AND TELEVISION RECEIVERS. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with video receiving equipment, including a television, a digital video disc player, a videocassette player, or similar equipment, only if the equipment is located so that the video display is not visible from the operator's seat unless the vehicle's transmission is in park or the vehicle's parking brake is applied.

(b) A motor vehicle specially designed as a mobile unit used by a licensed television station may have video receiving equipment located so that the video display is visible from the operator's side, but the receiver may be used only when the vehicle is stopped.

burden of proof is on the trooper to "prove" it obscured his view. pretty wide open interpretation, I'd be willing to be it gets dismissed, if Bob makes a good enough argument.

 

[Ric Burney]

...

burden of proof is on the trooper to "prove" it obscured his view. pretty wide open interpretation, I'd be willing to be it gets dismissed, if Bob makes a good enough argument.

My posting of the law was for Texas for example only. I believe the actual incident occurred in Kansas whose law may be similar but worded differently.
In Texas the little word "and" in "operates a motor vehicle that has an object or material that is placed on or attached to the windshield or side or rear window and that obstructs..." changes things.
A quick read of the law and you might think that nothing at all can be placed on the windshield or any other window. However with that little three letter word in play another condition must be met in order for an offense to occur.
Placing the camera far from the drivers side of the windshield to purposely keep a clear view might be a defense to prosecution under Texas law.
FWIW I've used a windshield mount on several chases this year and made several LEO contacts, all in Texas. None of which had any concern over my camera placement which was on the passenger side, low to the dash.
One was on duty but would rather have been chasing around Muenster. Another out by Post wanted me to stick around while he was changing a flat tire in the middle of nowhere during a tor warned storm.

 

[Dave Kaplow]

In terms of what's illegal and what's not, it's basically up to the cop, regardless of the fine print in the law itself. Are you really going to plead not guilty, get a court date, go all the way back to West Nowheresville, TX and then get up there and tell the judge that the officer, who happens to be the judge's son in law, is wrong when he says your vision was obstructed? I don't think so. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay the ticket.

FWIW, here in CT it's a favorite tactic of law enforcement to give out tickets for having one of those little air fresheners dangling from your rearview mirror. Usually a full search is involved, especially if you belong to an ethnic minority. Ironically, out here it's much easier to beat such tickets in court, because the legal system is much less incestuous, but also because judges are often sympathetic, having been on the recieving end of these kind of tactics themselves.

 

[john.sibley]

Down here in Georgia, I've run into some interesting cops. Most have been nice, 2 have been cute, ma'am, and of course there are the jerks.
To start off, I have the big yellow suction cup on the bottom right of the windshield. Passenger/Spotter operated. The laptop is on a mount that can be adjusted before a chase to whoever is operating the radar.
I was gassing at a truck stop when a GSP (Georgia State Patrol) officer pulled right up to my front bumper blue lights flashing.....and just wanted to see my equipment and if I was one of those crazy guys that hunts tornadoes like he saw on Discovery Channel. Granted I became the center of attention as several more officers came by to check it out too. And of course they thought my setup was better than theirs. (Must of been a slow day.) That is the normal response from a county/trooper. Now there have been bad encounters too. Like the cop that said he really liked my setup, then gave me a $140 ticket for using a cellphone while speeding. He didn't have to prove I was speeding, just that he saw me holding my phone. What a jerk.
Yep. City cops are the worst behaved. It's like their trying to prove something to someone that they can write tickets too. I've seen Atlanta cops ticket tourist for the most stupidest reasons. Like lane changing while reading a map.

 

[J West]

I just found this thread while searching a different topic, and since the 2010 chase season is beginning to ramp up no doubt this issue will come up again.

There is a lot of bloviating in this thread, but the bottom line is fairly simple. All states have some type of view obstruction law, and most/all states have laws about attaching things to the windshield or having video screens in view of the driver. Some of these laws are very specific about what is or is not allowed.

As a low profile member here, I tend to sit back and watch these threads unfold without comment...but some of the comments in here caught my eye so I read the entire thread.

Generally if the item in question is mounted or hanging below the "A" line on the glass it can be considered a view obstruction to the driver...regardless of where on the windshield it's mounted. As far as I'm aware, the only exempted items are goverment-issued decals and stickers, so long as there are mounted where specified. If you don't know what the "A" line is, look on the edge of the glass while sitting in either of the front seats and find a small black letter A embossed onto the inside of the glass near the top. If you have a windshield with the factory blue tint, it stops at/near the "A" line. The rear view mirror puck is also mounted in the general vicinity of the "A" line as well.

Keep in mind that items on your dash that stick up into the viewable area of the windshield are usually included in the prohibitions also. In addition to objects, window tint is also usually illegal if applied below the "A" line.

Some states get specific about areas of the windshield too, such as anything mounted or hanging in the swept area of the windshield wipers would constitute a view obstruction. Keep in mind that objects impeding vision out the rest of the windows can be considered view obstructions as well.

The bottom line is if you have cameras, GPS units, monitors or whatnot mounted in these areas, don't be surprised if you are stopped and/or receive a citation.

 

[Aaron Kennedy]

Some states get specific about areas of the windshield too, such as anything mounted or hanging in the swept area of the windshield wipers would constitute a view obstruction.

I had a friend get pulled over in MN a few months ago for having a parking tag hanging from the rearview mirror. The cop gave her a warning and a stern lecture about knowing the rules in other states.

 

[Josh VandenTop]

does anyone know where you can find the laws of each state, or if there is a thread with the laws of each state concerning laptops and cameras?