Beware!... $105 citation for camera/mount on windshield

[Bob Scott]

Yesterday my wife and I were chasing, heading out of KC on the turnpike. At the toll booth, we were pulled out of line by a Kansas State trooper. I had no idea why we were being stopped. He proceeded to lecture us on the fact that the camera and mount on the front windshield obscured the drivers vision. He asked what we were doing with the camera. (He could clearly see my laptop opened with a full screen Weathertap Radarlab image on it. He knew very well what we were doing.) I told him that we were storm chasing. That really set him off. He proceeded to run our license and plates, and then came back with a $105 ticket, saying that the camera "obscured the drivers view." He was totally condescending and very rude. I know that the fact we were storm chasers sealed the fate of getting a ticket. I have always had high regard for law enforcement. I haven't had a ticket in 15 years. Needless to say, my contributions that I have made in the past to the troopers fund is toast. I pay my taxes and am a law abiding citizen. If I'm one mile per hour over the speed limit then fine.. I'm guilty. But this is absurd! I plan on challenging the ticket as a matter of principle. It probably won't do any good, but at least I'll feel beter knowing I tried. I know that municipalities are cash strapped, but this is ridiculous. By the way, the footprint of the camera and mount is really not that big. It is a small Panasonic camera. The mount is one found on one of the Stormtrack threads that I purchased from "filmtools." It is a fanstastic mount, that many other chasers are probably using. Thanks for letting me vent! Heads up!

Bob Scott
Overland Park Kansas

 

[Jeff Snyder]

I had a very rude run-in with a Kansas State trooper on the turnpike back on 5-22-04 as well. All the other times I've interacted with law enforcement on chases have been either neutral or positive, but they've always been rather professional. That 5-22-04 cop was a power-tripping jerk that was quite condescending and disrespectful. Of course, like any job, there are going to be jerks in law enforcement -- I just try not to let it taint my view of all cops. I'm like you, though, when it comes to the reasons for a ticket or being pulled over... If I'm speeding (even a few mph over the limit), or doing anything else illegal, then I certainly cannot complain about being pulled over. However, if I'm not doing anything wrong, then being pulled over by a rude bothers me greatly. Granted, I've only been pulled over a handful of times on the Plains, so my sample size is small.

I do know that, in some (many?) states, having anything attached to the front windshield aside from the rear-view mirror is illegal. Heck, some laws technically make it illegal to have parking pass stickers (for parks, business/school permits, etc) on the windshield as well. I only heard this enforced occasionally when people had those big old notepads suction-cupped to the middle of their windshield. I do see a lot of folks now with GPS units suction-cupped to the windshield, so I'm curious to see if this becomes enforced more often.

FWIW, it's also illegal in many (most?) states to have a video screen in view of the driver. This means that it's illegal for the driver to be able to see a laptop screen. I've always been quite careful with this law, as I always make sure to flip the laptop screen down when I pass any cops. Of course, this is a safety thing anyway, so it's best to minimize the amount of the screen you can see while driving anyway (particularly at night!), but that's not possible when you're chasing solo or when you're trying to decide between road options, whether or not to leave a storm, etc.

 

[Elinor McLennon]

Jeff,
i see what you're saying about the laws. But yet we'll give a 16yr old kid a license and a cell phone and put them on the road????
Yes, bob's fate was sealed when he said he was chasing....sorry you got a ticket.
We've all had good and bad experiences from law enforcement.....some of it we bring on ourselves by stupid driving and having tunnel vision when chasing.

 

[Jesse Risley]

It was probably illegal, but I would research the law anyhow. It might matter how and where the camera was mounted in order to result in a conviction, but you will probably end up on the losing end. I was told by a LEO in Illinois to remove a camera last year, but I didn't get a ticket, likely because we were stopped at a gas station.

I've never seen so many police officers during a chase as I did yesterday. They were pulling people over quite frequently, both state and municipalities. We were stopped for speeding in Seiling, OK by the police chief, who was pretty courteous, but I don't believe he actually had a radar confirmation on the speed.

I agree that in some cases being a storm chaser might arguably be a factor in the decision making process between a ticket or a warning.

 

[John Cameron]

I would definitely fight it stating that he clearly became less understanding once he found out you were doing something that offended him personally despite it being lawful.

Why is it that a portion of LEOs tend to have zero tolerance of chasers? Do they think we're stealing their thunder? Is it oneupsmanship?

 

[James Wilson]

Thanks for the heads up as i use the turnpike sometimes as well.

 

[Jesse Risley]

Why is it that a portion of LEOs tend to have zero tolerance of chasers? Do they think we're stealing their thunder? Is it oneupsmanship?

I think it's a combination of factors, depending on the LEO. It's likely the same reason having a radar detector is almost a guaranteed ticket. There's the stereotype of reckless driving and "yahoo" behavior, along with the fact that some of these people just don't like all of the non-local traffic jams.

A select few that I've encountered have taken some issue with having equipment that can monitor police frequencies too, but they're usually in the anti-scanner/anti-whacker crowd. Others don't like people seemingly "thrill-seeking" in their turf to get videos, etc. I suppose they see it as insensitive or deranged.

Read this thread if you get bored, as it's from a LE message board: http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84186&highlight=storm+chasers

 

[Brandon Goforth]

Some people just need to realize that most law enforcement officers don't like chasers. So yeah, you getting a ticket was probably largely influenced by you telling him that you were storm chasing. And quite frankly, it's not hard to see why if you've ever been part of chaser convergence...now try doing a job in that mess with a destructive storm moving through your area. Yeah, if I was a cop, I'd HATE chasers too...in fact, I do anyways and all of you guys need to stay home.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Was the camera rolling?

 

[joel ewing]

$ 105.00 Citation / Camera Mount

I'd challenge it too. Perhaps having a camera mounted is not specifically stated in black and white in the lawbooks.
I've often shaken my head at some of the ludicrous stuff that people hang from their rear view mirrors. Baby shoes....big feathered "dream catchers", etc. etc. Those kinds of things HAVE to obscure a driver's view. I'm 6'4"...I ALWAYS have to flip my rear view mirror in my truck upwards and away from me...just so I can see unimpeded thru my windshield. This negates my rear view mirror completely...but it's necessary for me to see properly.
Not all LEOs have a problem with chasers. I don't speed around storms too much anymore, but certainly have in the recent past. A couple of times I've been pulled over, once in the Texas Panhandle by a lady cop and in Nebraska as well (near Valentine...thanks to aerial spying on drivers...keep that in mind around Cherry county, Neb.) and being a chaser has actually helped my case both times. I'm a bit older than a lot of you guys (54), especially those of you in college obviously...and perhaps that has helped my case somewhat. FYI....whenever you do get pulled over...the best thing you can do from the get-go is pull off your sunglasses.....put BOTH hands up on the top of the steering wheel...and look the LEO right in their eyes. Trust me...it helps. Joel

 

[L.B. LaForce]

Interesting. Jeff, I never thought about GPS units. Those are often windshield mounted, so wouldn't those also be considered "illegal?" I got pulled over for the first time a few months back by a sheriff, because I pushed the limits on a yellow/red light. Anyways, I had the camera mount up, no camera attached, but he didn't seem to notice, or say a thing. Now he wasn't a "nice" cop in my terms, but not really mean either, more on the serious side. Ill have to look up the laws for this here in Michigan.

Also, im rather curious, on how cops are with other storm chasers, as well as speeding, as im sure it happens all the time, when you want to get to that "storm." As far as cops not liking storm chasers, ive never heard of any problems. Their job is to enforce the law, to protect people, and im sure most storm chasers have more meteorological knowledge than cops. We are there for the thrill, but more importantly to report what we see the the NWS. Obviously, that does not give storm chasers the right to drive however they want, but cops should not have a negative attitude towards storm chasers, when they are out reporting information possibly regarding others safety.

 

[Benjamin Rock]

I was in Illinois last year and had a cop pull up next to me in a parking lot. I had the laptop open and running, my webcam, my weather station and the HAM radio on, and a GPS attached to the windshield. He pulls up and says, "did you have all that on there and running while you were driving?" I figured, i was in for it so I just said "Yes." He proceeded to get out of his car and walk to the passenger side. I just looked at him as he opened the door. i was thinking I'm really in trouble.He asked if he could look at the radar. I was dumbfounded. He got in and we sat about an hour shooting the sh**. He was pretty cool. What a relief it was...

 

[Michael Towers]

I’m assuming most places (state, city, municipality, etc) have laws governing windshield obstruction and it’s not a stretch for a cop to determine the mount a violation. Obstruction or not, if a cop feels it’s illegal there’s nothing to stop him/her from writing you a ticket and letting a judge decide. For those chasers getting cited hundreds if not thousands of miles from home it’s going to be a certain fine unless they’re willing to travel all the way back to the area to appear in court. In addition to getting pulled over and fined exclusively for having a mount it might change the outcome of getting pulled over for a different offense. Assuming a cop has pulled you over for speeding I can see where a situation that may have ended up in a warning may end up in multiple citations; instead of deciding to let you go without a single ticket the option of writing two tickets might shift the balance in favor of writing you up. If an open laptop is present then that could make three citations, probably increasing the chances of getting fined. If it’s up to the cop’s discretion on whether to cite or warn then the presence of additional violations may negatively influence the outcome.

As it happens to be I just bought and received the mount referred to in the initial post. Because of the legal issue I’m now having second thoughts on using the windshield as a mounting surface or not using a mount at all. I’ll probably just hold on to the thing and whenever I get a second camcorder I’ll just use the passenger window for the mount.

 

[Jason Foster]

The key word that should have been use is not "storm chasing", but "storm research". It won't get you out of any situation, but I have found it lends itself more to the fact you are there for a reason. Just a tip for the future.

 

[Brian Barnes]

The key word that should have been use is not "storm chasing", but "storm research". It won't get you out of any situation, but I have found it lends itself more to the fact you are there for a reason. Just a tip for the future.

That's up to each and their own, but I don't do "storm research" and I don't feel right saying "storm chasing" any other way, it's just not within me to do it. You have every right to be there solely for the "reason" that you just want to be. If they don't understand civil rights, the officer needs to find another line of work! And, if you don't understand your civil rights you should spend some time in the library.

But, I don't think that was the reason in this case - he either found himself a rookie cop, or someone that saw out of state plates and just thought it would be an easy win, or perhaps the cop just brought his troubled marriage to work with him that day (who knows?). If you do in fact help with wx nets, etc... you might point that out and you should probably take some photo evidence showing your driving perspective and location of the mount at the time... But, I think you'll win it in court. Sounds like your insurance, license, plates and stuff were all current, and you weren't speeding or anything - so its likely a judge won't hang you. Its a possibility, but I think (and hope) that you'll be okay.