6/23/07 DISC: MB / ND

[John Erwin]

Congrats to Reed on that beautiful video!

I'm glad to see this past weekend's "breakout" has given us a bit of attention! Athough this was something of an anomaly statistically, it's not uncommon for us to have decent chase setups each year if one is patient and in a position to go and bag them.

I have however personally found very little interest here in the past to anything going on north of the border unless it is of this kind of magnitude, so as a practice I don't bother posting about it anymore... although I put it down to demographics more than anything else.

 

[scott r currens]

I believe that there's definitely a tendency to ignore Canada's potential for great chase opportunities, mainly during the months of June and July. I too, was really surprised at the lack of discussion of the severe weather setup of this past weekend.

Much as I love ST and the opportunities to learn from others, I can't help but suspect there's a little bit of "Tornado Alley Snobbery" that exists here. Not any particular person, but just an attitude. I know I won't be very popular for saying it, but I had to speak my mind on this one.

:huh: I guess is missed forecast disscusion you started.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Much as I love ST and the opportunities to learn from others, I can't help but suspect there's a little bit of "Tornado Alley Snobbery" that exists here. Not any particular person, but just an attitude. I know I won't be very popular for saying it, but I had to speak my mind on this one.

The Plains bias is there, but it isn't due to any snobbish attitude. It's a matter of practicality. The Great Plains from March-June is the most reliable place and time to see tornadoes and observe severe weather patterns. It's not that people don't care about tornadoes in other places and times of year, it's that no one has the time or inclination to follow every single severe weather event in the world.

Considering the number of tornado events in myriad places throughout the year, no one is going to actively discuss every event that comes along, particularly the events in faraway lands that one is not able to chase. It would be impractical (and a little unhealthy) for anyone to be glued to ST 24/7/365, forecasting, nowcasting and/or chasing and discussing every supercell that occurs. There is a limit, believe it or not, to how much of chasing one is willing to devote their lives to, no matter how obsessed with it any one of us may be.

That being said, I would not think twice about driving across the border if a setup like this past week were to occur when I was out on the Plains on a chase trip. As long as I can get there, anywhere's fair game.

 

[Tom Stefanac]

One thing to remember about Canada is a lack of data, chasing on the Canadian prairies is not like chasing in the Midwest, there is no SPC style meso analysis, the Canadian radar network is a C-band system which suffers from precipitation attenuation and there are no high resolution radar products available, in fact there is nothing outside of basic low resolution reflectivity available. The cellular network is analog in most places limiting data collection and the canwarn spotter network is spread thin leaving many report free areas. Even the sfc observation network is spread thin. To put it simply, it is like chasing prior to this wireless information age which is upon us, you really have to know what you are doing, make the forecast the night before and rely on visual clues. If you really want 1990's nostalgia (lonely roads, no chasers, no data), the Canadian prairie will give it you hands down. Hopefully next year I will be able to spend a few weeks chasing out there.

 

[Jim Tang]

One thing to remember about Canada is a lack of data, chasing on the Canadian prairies is not like chasing in the Midwest, there is no SPC style meso analysis, the Canadian radar network is a C-band system which suffers from precipitation attenuation and there are no high resolution radar products available, in fact there is nothing outside of basic low resolution reflectivity available. The cellular network is analog in most places limiting data collection and the canwarn spotter network is spread thin leaving many report free areas. Even the sfc observation network is spread thin. To put it simply, it is like chasing prior to this wireless information age which is upon us, you really have to know what you are doing, make the forecast the night before and rely on visual clues. If you really want 1990's nostalgia (lonely roads, no chasers, no data), the Canadian prairie will give it you hands down. Hopefully next year I will be able to spend a few weeks chasing out there.

I would disagree with that for some parts of the Canadian prairies. In fact, the Mesoanalysis on the 23rd showed some insane 0-3 km EHI values - above 10. (link is for 0-1 km, but still impressive nonetheless)
http://w1.spc.woc.noaa.gov/exper/ma_archive/images_s4/20070623/23_ehi1.gif

Usually in such situations, the atmosphere would remain capped, but the cap broke and Reed Timmer has the results on video.

 

[Tom Stefanac]

Well the meso analysis as with any NSSL, SPC or NWS product is limited to near border regions, for example north of Regina SK, NWS radar is limited and the SPC meso analysis is limited to fringe data rarely finding its way north of there. The synoptic chart only covers about 40% of the Canadian prairie. I think the main issue though is that the SPC meso products cannot be relied upon for Canadian coverage, if there is a large MCS on the east coast and severe storms in the southern plains then there will not be a box to the north, or suppose while conditions are more conductive to severe storms north of the border but there is still a considerable risk in SD/ND then the SPC box will remain centered on those states with very little coverage in the Canadian prairies.

The biggest issue is that acquiring in field data from a cellular internet connection is very difficult and wi-fi is still really spotty. It is a totally different chasing experience.

 

[John Erwin]

The cellular network is analog in most places limiting data collection

Things have changed quite a bit in MB the last while Tom; there's fairly decent digital coverage on both GSM and CDMA networks over most of the southern part of the province (south eastern corner excepted). Oh sure you have the usual "holes" here and there, but pretty well on par with what you would experience south of here on many parts of the plains. Not up to EVDO standards yet though (except urban areas), but better than analog.

Despite your other comments (which are essentially correct) there is an avid chasing community here and we do quite well with what we have to work with.

 

[John Hudson]

I must admit there are very valid points to what many of you have posted here regarding the state of data availability, radar coverage/resolution, etc. Compared to the met infrastructure of the United States, our system here is still in the Dark Ages, I am saddened to admit.

Our government has paid little attention to the importance of severe storm forecasting, and in fact attempted to close the Environment Canada forecast offices here in Winnipeg, leaving a gaping hole in the center of the country, and leaving it up to scope-watchers in Toronto to decide what the weather held in store for Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

Only after a major public outcry did these pencil pushers in Ottawa decide to let the Prairie and Arctic Storm Prediction Center remain as a going concern.

So yes, it can be a challenge to acquire quality streaming data in the field.

Which leads me to a question I've had for sometime now. Has anyone here ever used WxWorx north of the border? If so, was the coverage adequate?


John
VE4 JTH

 

[John Erwin]

Which leads me to a question I've had for sometime now. Has anyone here ever used WxWorx north of the border? If so, was the coverage adequate?

Canadian radar and other weather products are now available on WxWorx; subject to the same limitations that the data itself is prone to.

 

[Kem Poyner]

Manitoba "tornado"

come on guys, like Canada could even copple together something that sinister.Im sure if you watch real close, its just a family cook-out that went way bad, Watch as little johnney drops and rolls to put out the flames. Grammy, Mom and uncle Howard aslo follow the 'drop and roll' manuvers. I would suggest backing off the Kingsford lighter fluid. A little goes along ways.

 

[Tom Stefanac]

come on guys, like Canada could even copple together something that sinister.Im sure if you watch real close, its just a family cook-out that went way bad, Watch as little johnney drops and rolls to put out the flames. Grammy, Mom and uncle Howard aslo follow the 'drop and roll' manuvers. I would suggest backing off the Kingsford lighter fluid. A little goes along ways.

I think Johnny put on a couple hundred... err I mean thousand pounds

 

[John Hudson]

come on guys, like Canada could even copple together something that sinister.Im sure if you watch real close, its just a family cook-out that went way bad, Watch as little johnney drops and rolls to put out the flames. Grammy, Mom and uncle Howard aslo follow the 'drop and roll' manuvers. I would suggest backing off the Kingsford lighter fluid. A little goes along ways.

Somebody must have seriously burned those steaks

John
VE4 JTH

 

[John Hudson]

REPORTS: ELIE, MB

Went out to Elie, MB to do a story on the town's recovery from the June 23 tornado. Did some interviews, and took a few pictures that I posted here:

http://skywatch7.com/


John
VE4 JTH

 

[Laura Hedien]

"On Friday, June 23, vicious thunderstorms spawned at least two tornadoes in the area, with one packing destructive winds of nearly 400 km per hour. ..."

We were out that day also so I am saving what data and stories there are. We never really got any Canadian input, newspaper stories or damage reports.
Is the story from Saturday the 23rd or Friday the 22nd? From where Elie is I think it's the Friday storms?
Thanks,
Laura

 

[John Hudson]

Is the story from Saturday the 23rd or Friday the 22nd? From where Elie is I think it's the Friday storms?
Thanks,
Laura

Indeed, the Elie tornado occurred on Friday, June 22nd. I'm aware that it didn't make much coverage south of here, as these events are really just another day at the office for many of you.

It did, however, make rather large headlines here, being one of the most photographed and videotaped storms ever to happen here (with the exception of yours truly, who was tied up that day ). Oh well, at least I got the "leftovers".

There were quite a few excellent photographs sent my way, but none identified by way of any credits. If anyone wishes, I can forward them, with the understanding the photographer is unknown.


John
www.skywatch7.com