Josh VandenTop
EF2
I'm not familiar with this area, but after looking at a map I have to ask, were the back roads like this too or was is just the highway that was this crazy?
5/19 Chaser Convergence
- Thread starter James Hilger
- Start date
M Dillard
EF0
Chaser Convergence Ground Control
Who'd ever think that the SAFER chase option NOW would be to be in a whirlybird?
Who'd ever think that the SAFER chase option NOW would be to be in a whirlybird?
Stephen Locke
EF3
I was thinking about my future chase strategy all the way home last night. Mike H. put it well when he likened it to stadium traffic. I think in the future I plan to get on the storm early and leave it early. On 5/19 I shot the first tornado at Leedey early with only one other vehicle pulled over with me ( Tim Marshall.) As the storm ages it accumulates chasers. A thousand chasers pacing an outflow mess. I backed off and got great structure 10 miles to the west. Just me, the toads, and redwing black birds.
cstrunk
EF3
If I ever encounter anything that looks half as bad as the Hwy 33 picture while trying to chase a storm, I'm going to either break off of that storm, try to break south/east (to get away from the storm a bit) for structure shots (and possibly missed tornadoes), or just give up. That kind of situation really makes me hesitate wanting to chase in the plains during May. And I haven't chased very much compared to most.
I have no idea how to solve the problem of chaser convergence, except that from now and into the future, secondary targets may be more like "primary" targets because of the safety factor being considered as well. Yeah it may cause some to miss tornadoes, but it's better than being involved in that mayhem. The only thing that will help is to have multiple storms spread out.
June/July chasing may be a better option for some in the central/northern plains/midwest instead of April/May chasing in TX/OK/KS in order to avoid this.
To the TIV and DC crews: you guys are idiots. I realize that you have radios to communicate with "lead" vehicles, but with this many people out, the chances of a disaster waiting to happen skyrockets. You can't see everything. You can't predict other people's movements and decision making. If you continue this behavior, I fear you will some day cause a fatal accident. Other people are watching you and you can bet some "yahoo's" will follow your behavior (as evidenced in some videos in this thread) and be even more dangerous than you.
Maybe we will have to try harder at "self-policing" irresponsible behavior. I would have no qualms about chewing someone's *** about acting this way and putting other people in danger. It's one thing to do something dangerous and risk your life, but do not risk the lives of others!!
I have no idea how to solve the problem of chaser convergence, except that from now and into the future, secondary targets may be more like "primary" targets because of the safety factor being considered as well. Yeah it may cause some to miss tornadoes, but it's better than being involved in that mayhem. The only thing that will help is to have multiple storms spread out.
June/July chasing may be a better option for some in the central/northern plains/midwest instead of April/May chasing in TX/OK/KS in order to avoid this.
To the TIV and DC crews: you guys are idiots. I realize that you have radios to communicate with "lead" vehicles, but with this many people out, the chances of a disaster waiting to happen skyrockets. You can't see everything. You can't predict other people's movements and decision making. If you continue this behavior, I fear you will some day cause a fatal accident. Other people are watching you and you can bet some "yahoo's" will follow your behavior (as evidenced in some videos in this thread) and be even more dangerous than you.
Maybe we will have to try harder at "self-policing" irresponsible behavior. I would have no qualms about chewing someone's *** about acting this way and putting other people in danger. It's one thing to do something dangerous and risk your life, but do not risk the lives of others!!
N. Shaw
That is normally what I do ... especially on high risk days. I don't get to chase that often, and I'd rather not fight the crowds. It worked out well yesterday. Like Conner, I caught the Paul's Valley tornado.
weskranz
EF0
Hopefully lots of learning will take place after this fiasco.
I think this convergence recipe was caused in part due to TWC's live Vortex2 coverage nightly, storms near the OKC metro area and a high risk donut outlined by the SPC in the area. These 3 things together were simply dangerous.
I'm glad nobody was seriously hurt by these actions.
I think this convergence recipe was caused in part due to TWC's live Vortex2 coverage nightly, storms near the OKC metro area and a high risk donut outlined by the SPC in the area. These 3 things together were simply dangerous.
I'm glad nobody was seriously hurt by these actions.
John Gnuechtel
EF3
The 18th and 19th both have been very odd. I have never seen anything close to the number of chasers I saw over those two days. But thinking back, I'd bet that every good storm I've ever been on could've been like that if they happened this year. Seems like the crowd is just building.
I had a big long post planned, but I'll try and keep it short. I only have one main gripe: Drivers of big white tour vans; your vehicle sucks at generally everything aside from carrying copious amounts of passengers. You probably don't even know what it's like to spin one or do an emergency braking maneuver with a full load. Do not allow the situation to make you forget this! Consider brake, suspension, and harness upgrades if you plan on continuing to pass 9 people at a time. Roll cages might also be a good consideration, but maybe you could just wear helmets.
Otherwise the chaser convergence was really annoying, but handled relatively well. There really are too many of us out there now. I'm even thinking about explicitly avoiding obvious storms of the day, having been on a couple for a few days, and noting that my initial targets ended up producing pretty well after the main show fired.
This will ultimately end up being a terrible decision.
I had a big long post planned, but I'll try and keep it short. I only have one main gripe: Drivers of big white tour vans; your vehicle sucks at generally everything aside from carrying copious amounts of passengers. You probably don't even know what it's like to spin one or do an emergency braking maneuver with a full load. Do not allow the situation to make you forget this! Consider brake, suspension, and harness upgrades if you plan on continuing to pass 9 people at a time. Roll cages might also be a good consideration, but maybe you could just wear helmets.
Otherwise the chaser convergence was really annoying, but handled relatively well. There really are too many of us out there now. I'm even thinking about explicitly avoiding obvious storms of the day, having been on a couple for a few days, and noting that my initial targets ended up producing pretty well after the main show fired.
This will ultimately end up being a terrible decision.
Rob Wadsworth
EF5
Wow, a very passionate plethora of responses so far.
Just a few more cents thrown in here...
Everybody has to go the speed limit - by law. That means all storm chase enthusiasts, spotters, the TIV crew, Yahoo chasers, SKYWARN guys, local TV, Reed Timmer and his crew, and even Dr. Wurman/VORTEX II. So long as everybody stays moving and doesn't create a hazard on the roadway; then the road is open for everyone. No exceptions. Because it is already the law; not because I say so.
While Chuck Doswell has his regrets about the present state of storm chasing, and feels as though he is to blame - he should not. Does he make laptops, GPS units, GR3 or F5 Data, air cards, or photographic equipment? Does he provide internet services, cellular services, iPod applications, or info from the NWS? Of course not. Time simply moved on.
People that live on the Plains have been the victim and recipient of these sometimes horrendous storm events. Less than 60 years ago, people that talked about or even mentioned tornadoes were treated as though they were discussing pornography. We now live in an age of information, most of which is tainted by politics and media interests. Now, information is available that can warn well ahead of time. This wasn't the case even 20 years ago. We might not be able to stop the storm nor deprive it of its victims, but that is something Dr Wurman and his associates will have to decide at some point if they can. Time - once again - has moved on.
Is the media to blame in reporting damage and carnage due to storms? Is it SKYWARN's fault for getting people involved in their community's safety? What started this chasing 'bug'? Can Doswwell be blamed? No; it is unfortunate that many who chase might not even be aware of the things he has written about it. Which is a shame; if they did they would be aware of the ethics involved with chasing. What happened to a little common sense?!?
Should or could we blame the Discovery Channel and the 'Storm Chaser' series for this traffic event? IS there any 'blame' to be passed out here? Not really. Except for the road antics of a few who think they can somehow jockey their way into a better position and exceed the laws of the road - that is all that has really happened here. That is all we are really talking about here, when it is all said and done. Stop it - you are making us all look poorly by your beavior!
Dr. Wurman: If I see your crew in my rear view mirror, I will pull over and let you pass by. I don't have a problem with that. Do your job and get your data.
Storm chasers: Regardless of who they are - if you are doing something that you shouldn't while behind the wheel - I won't report you to LEO's. Instead, I may take down your license plate and post your behavior on STORMTRACK if Tim/Staff will permit it. Self-policing and cooperation is the only means to make it work for all of us. WE cannot create problems that may screw it up for everyone else if we wish to continue chasing! This also means that everyone needs to be watching and pulling together on this.
As far as local yahoo chasers; that is the only loose cannon here. Talking their license plate numbers on them and ratting them out - might be necessary. They also create more dangers because of their overall lack of chase ethics. If the rest of us can keep out 'stuff' together and follow simple rules that we should be keeping anyway, I don't see a problem. Nor do I see sanctions or laws imposed upon those who are merely exercising their freedoms.
TWC is now making this issue a minor media event in itself. I cannot blame them for drawing attention to Dr Wurman and his crew vs the storm chaser. But - it seems to be a contradiction in terms to me. Certainly, it is a contradiction in that it is all we are doing here. The need for regulation and laws being passed down just because we can't get along on the roads seems counter-intuitive to me too. It seems much easier just to work it all out than to do away with it altogether...
Just a few more cents thrown in here...
Everybody has to go the speed limit - by law. That means all storm chase enthusiasts, spotters, the TIV crew, Yahoo chasers, SKYWARN guys, local TV, Reed Timmer and his crew, and even Dr. Wurman/VORTEX II. So long as everybody stays moving and doesn't create a hazard on the roadway; then the road is open for everyone. No exceptions. Because it is already the law; not because I say so.
While Chuck Doswell has his regrets about the present state of storm chasing, and feels as though he is to blame - he should not. Does he make laptops, GPS units, GR3 or F5 Data, air cards, or photographic equipment? Does he provide internet services, cellular services, iPod applications, or info from the NWS? Of course not. Time simply moved on.
People that live on the Plains have been the victim and recipient of these sometimes horrendous storm events. Less than 60 years ago, people that talked about or even mentioned tornadoes were treated as though they were discussing pornography. We now live in an age of information, most of which is tainted by politics and media interests. Now, information is available that can warn well ahead of time. This wasn't the case even 20 years ago. We might not be able to stop the storm nor deprive it of its victims, but that is something Dr Wurman and his associates will have to decide at some point if they can. Time - once again - has moved on.
Is the media to blame in reporting damage and carnage due to storms? Is it SKYWARN's fault for getting people involved in their community's safety? What started this chasing 'bug'? Can Doswwell be blamed? No; it is unfortunate that many who chase might not even be aware of the things he has written about it. Which is a shame; if they did they would be aware of the ethics involved with chasing. What happened to a little common sense?!?
Should or could we blame the Discovery Channel and the 'Storm Chaser' series for this traffic event? IS there any 'blame' to be passed out here? Not really. Except for the road antics of a few who think they can somehow jockey their way into a better position and exceed the laws of the road - that is all that has really happened here. That is all we are really talking about here, when it is all said and done. Stop it - you are making us all look poorly by your beavior!
Dr. Wurman: If I see your crew in my rear view mirror, I will pull over and let you pass by. I don't have a problem with that. Do your job and get your data.
Storm chasers: Regardless of who they are - if you are doing something that you shouldn't while behind the wheel - I won't report you to LEO's. Instead, I may take down your license plate and post your behavior on STORMTRACK if Tim/Staff will permit it. Self-policing and cooperation is the only means to make it work for all of us. WE cannot create problems that may screw it up for everyone else if we wish to continue chasing! This also means that everyone needs to be watching and pulling together on this.
As far as local yahoo chasers; that is the only loose cannon here. Talking their license plate numbers on them and ratting them out - might be necessary. They also create more dangers because of their overall lack of chase ethics. If the rest of us can keep out 'stuff' together and follow simple rules that we should be keeping anyway, I don't see a problem. Nor do I see sanctions or laws imposed upon those who are merely exercising their freedoms.
TWC is now making this issue a minor media event in itself. I cannot blame them for drawing attention to Dr Wurman and his crew vs the storm chaser. But - it seems to be a contradiction in terms to me. Certainly, it is a contradiction in that it is all we are doing here. The need for regulation and laws being passed down just because we can't get along on the roads seems counter-intuitive to me too. It seems much easier just to work it all out than to do away with it altogether...
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Jason Foster
I wonder with all these tempers blazing that a fist fight is about to break out someplace in the plains. I almost think that someone is going to get in a fight before anything else like an accident is going to occur, especially reading the various sites, blogs, and posts out there.
Aaron Estman
Most of you have probably seen this, but here is a photo I snapped of the TIV going up hill in a no passing zone.
Aaron Estman
I'd say close to 70% of these cars are NOT chasers. Most of them were either trying to get out of the city because of the tornado warning, large hail, or they saw the Vortex2 Armada of DOW's, and the TIV, and decided to follow.
Terry Kern
EF0
@Aaron, that's me in the white truck. Two things crossed my mind, 1 - I hope no one crests the hill from the opposite direction, 2 - if someone does crest the hill I hope it's a cop.
Kevin Walters
EF2
When I started chasing storms in the 80's here in Iowa I was almost always alone on a storm except for an occasional storm spotter or deputy sheriff. Through most of the 90's it was basically the same. Since the late 90's there has been a steady increase in the number of chasers I encounter, although nothing close to the situation in OK on the 19th. Last June I experienced my first real chaser convergence at several locations along highway 20 in Northern Iowa. The days of being alone on a storm are probably gone no matter where you choose to chase.
Bryce Stone
EF4
After arriving late to the circus on Wednesday and leaving early, I have decided to change when, where, and how I chase. My primary concern from now on will be to avoid chaser gatherings like the one I took part in on Wednesday.
I feel somewhat foolish to even be complaining about the converging hordes - the irony of complaining about a problem that (at least in this instance) I and many other ST members have personally contributed to (not through dangerous driving, but simply by being there).
As far as dangerous (I think deadly would be a better word) driving, there were other instances of it which either were not videotaped or simply haven't been shown yet. I was focusing on driving rather than filming, so I have no footage of what I saw.
After what I witnessed on Wednesday, I am convinced that someone will be killed by a storm chaser soon. After that happens, this hobby will change for all of us.
I, for one, plan to be far away when the first kill happens.
I feel somewhat foolish to even be complaining about the converging hordes - the irony of complaining about a problem that (at least in this instance) I and many other ST members have personally contributed to (not through dangerous driving, but simply by being there).
As far as dangerous (I think deadly would be a better word) driving, there were other instances of it which either were not videotaped or simply haven't been shown yet. I was focusing on driving rather than filming, so I have no footage of what I saw.
After what I witnessed on Wednesday, I am convinced that someone will be killed by a storm chaser soon. After that happens, this hobby will change for all of us.
I, for one, plan to be far away when the first kill happens.
Bryce Stone
EF4
It seems to be working. KOCO TV in OKC ran a segment on Thursday night's 10:00 p.m. newscast in which they showed the YouTube videos. Their general tone was that storm chasers are becoming a danger to the public. I wouldn't be too surprised to see this idea spread rapidly, especially with the videos and pictures going around now.
I gather that you don't think it's that big of a deal. I don't want to sound like Chicken Little, but it is a big deal. With the kind of behavior I and others saw on Wednesday, I feel very confident in saying that there is a significant chance of a storm chaser killing someone soon. That to me is a big deal.
The only solution I have been able to come up with is that I will be staying far away from chaser convergences in the future, even if it means missing out on the action.
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