James Langford
EF4
Steve just posted this video on his HamWx site:
http://www.hamwx.com/?p=2949
Speaks louder than anything that I can say.
James
http://www.hamwx.com/?p=2949
Speaks louder than anything that I can say.
James
5/19 Chaser Convergence
- Thread starter James Hilger
- Start date
John Farley
Supporter
I chose not to chase on the 10th in large part because I was concerned about the bad combination of fast storm motion and massive chaser convergence. Had it been feasible for me to do so, I might have been out yesterday and the day before (figured it would be safer with the slower storm motion), but now I would really have to think twice about any "big day" in OK or southern KS in mid-May. Those of you have seen Chris Novy's pictures on Facebook of the traffic jam yesterday or who were in it know what I mean.
One thing I like about chasing closer to home in MO and IL is that, although there are sometimes challenges with haze and, especially in MO, hills and trees, when you DO catch a nice tornado or another interesting storm feature, you usually have it nearly to yourself. I hesitate to say that, though, because I don't want to being the hordes up here! I do think that any of the strategies Matt mentioned would help you avoid the crowds, though - for example on the 10th several who were only a mile or so from the highway 11 fiasco were relatively by themselves, from what I hear.
Bryan Stokes
EF3
I have some observations that I would like to make as well. I was pretty shocked by the sheer number of chasers out there too (actually, it was staggering), but it was the way some of them were driving and acting that floored me. For some, it was a dog-eat-dog mentality on the road.
On 47, a little ways before Thomas, I was in a line of 40 or 50 chase vehicles that were moving along at a good speed. We were all going 75 mph and there were no hold-ups. (I know, even 75 is speeding, but everyone was driving responsibly.) All of a sudden, someone came flying up from the back of the pack and started passing the entire caravan doing in excess of over 100 mph. By no means was it a local-yokel. Their dark grey SUV was covered with SKYWARN magnets and the like. They stayed in the oncoming traffic lane for the entire time until they passed everyone in the long caravan. And yes, there were times it was impossible to see what was coming over the hill. It was pure Russian roulette.
Early in the storm’s evolution, I came over the top of a hill only to discover a van full of people standing squarely in the middle of the road with 2 or 3 tripods set-up. I’ve learned to approach the top of hills slowly. Had I been doing 60 mph, I likely would have killed a half dozen people.
Then on 105, just east of Guthrie, a 15-pax white rental van, carrying a load full of people, started passing everyone on the left side of the two-lane road. This van wasn’t doing 100 mph: the hills and tight corners wouldn’t allow that kind of speed. But the van remained in the left lane with no regard for oncoming traffic as it passed 6 or 7 vehicles. Then it pulled back in front of us and immediately slammed on the brakes to pull over where there was a clearing in the trees.
I bet there were at least 400-500 vehicles on the Watonga-Kingfisher-Guthrie supercell in addition to the helicopters hovering above. Yes, many were responsible in their driving and behavior, but there was a ton of ass-clownery too. I realize that chaser convergence is going to happen when there are only two primary storms on a high risk day, but it was a total zoo yesterday. I have come to expect more crowds in Oklahoma because the terrain is closer to major population centers and Oklahoman’s awareness of storm chasing is so much greater than in rural areas of Nebraska, Colorado, and South Dakota. It just brings more people out of the wood-works.
As a side-note, I kind of laughed during last year’s discussion on VORTEX 2 and how they were going to cause traffic jams around storms. Last year, I chased 18 days in June and I happened to be around VORTEX 2 a lot. They never caused a problem, slow down, or inconvenience…probably because they are a true group of professionals and they were spread way out around the storm. I wonder what they thought yesterday as they tried to work the storm amongst hundreds of other chasers.
Without a doubt, with the kind of behavior exhibited yesterday, accidents and fatalities will happen. It’s a real shame because it just wasn’t necessary. All it takes is a little more courtesy and a lot more common sense and the risks would be dramatically reduced.
Bryan
On 47, a little ways before Thomas, I was in a line of 40 or 50 chase vehicles that were moving along at a good speed. We were all going 75 mph and there were no hold-ups. (I know, even 75 is speeding, but everyone was driving responsibly.) All of a sudden, someone came flying up from the back of the pack and started passing the entire caravan doing in excess of over 100 mph. By no means was it a local-yokel. Their dark grey SUV was covered with SKYWARN magnets and the like. They stayed in the oncoming traffic lane for the entire time until they passed everyone in the long caravan. And yes, there were times it was impossible to see what was coming over the hill. It was pure Russian roulette.
Early in the storm’s evolution, I came over the top of a hill only to discover a van full of people standing squarely in the middle of the road with 2 or 3 tripods set-up. I’ve learned to approach the top of hills slowly. Had I been doing 60 mph, I likely would have killed a half dozen people.
Then on 105, just east of Guthrie, a 15-pax white rental van, carrying a load full of people, started passing everyone on the left side of the two-lane road. This van wasn’t doing 100 mph: the hills and tight corners wouldn’t allow that kind of speed. But the van remained in the left lane with no regard for oncoming traffic as it passed 6 or 7 vehicles. Then it pulled back in front of us and immediately slammed on the brakes to pull over where there was a clearing in the trees.
I bet there were at least 400-500 vehicles on the Watonga-Kingfisher-Guthrie supercell in addition to the helicopters hovering above. Yes, many were responsible in their driving and behavior, but there was a ton of ass-clownery too. I realize that chaser convergence is going to happen when there are only two primary storms on a high risk day, but it was a total zoo yesterday. I have come to expect more crowds in Oklahoma because the terrain is closer to major population centers and Oklahoman’s awareness of storm chasing is so much greater than in rural areas of Nebraska, Colorado, and South Dakota. It just brings more people out of the wood-works.
As a side-note, I kind of laughed during last year’s discussion on VORTEX 2 and how they were going to cause traffic jams around storms. Last year, I chased 18 days in June and I happened to be around VORTEX 2 a lot. They never caused a problem, slow down, or inconvenience…probably because they are a true group of professionals and they were spread way out around the storm. I wonder what they thought yesterday as they tried to work the storm amongst hundreds of other chasers.
Without a doubt, with the kind of behavior exhibited yesterday, accidents and fatalities will happen. It’s a real shame because it just wasn’t necessary. All it takes is a little more courtesy and a lot more common sense and the risks would be dramatically reduced.
Bryan
Stuart Robinson
EF5
Stormtrack is not the place to air my views on what happened to me yesterday - I will take that up with the people concerned directly offline. But I will say that Discovery / TIV were unsafe yesterday and darn right reckless. They placed me in (extreame) personal danger leaving me no escape route as they just stopped in the middle of the road as a tornado crossed the road near to me - TIV Guy's - I hope that you got your "shot" and it was worth it - but in future PLEASE DON'T block the road, just pull over and some some consideration for other chasers / road users.
Andrew Stoller
EF5
If......let me rephrase that. WHEN someone dies in a head on collision, or wraps themselves around a tree on a blind curve while chasing, and especially if someone causes a multi-car accident with fatalities, local governments WILL respond with legislation in some form or another. I think it's inevitable at this point, because the way many chasers drive and behave while chasing is now, and has been for a while, a public safety risk. I've witnessed many many well know and famous storm chasers drive with such lack of regard for the people surrounding them, and their own safety, that it's astounding. Apparently, the thrill of driving like Ricky Bobby on public roads is just as much the needed adrenaline rush as is seeing a storm. I'm serious! I think some of these people think the competition just to get to a storm - the road rage, gets their jollies off!
Doug Ott
EF0
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 39
Accidents are also likely to and will happen when chasers are driving down the road with the driver shooting a storm with a video camera hanging out the window. Isn't that what dash board mounts are for. I witnessed this on May 10th in OK. Needless to say I myself had to re-evaluate my chasing tactics on my home that day and was disgusted with myself on some decisions that I made. Sorry if my post involves a 5/10 incident instead of 5/19 but, I just feel it was something that needed mentioning.
When chosing my target areas anymore, there is a good chance that any high risk day will be spent at home. Unless it is in my area, where I can chase on gravel roads. I am just one person chasing and to watch a storm and 100 vehicles in front of you is impossible.
When chosing my target areas anymore, there is a good chance that any high risk day will be spent at home. Unless it is in my area, where I can chase on gravel roads. I am just one person chasing and to watch a storm and 100 vehicles in front of you is impossible.
Michael Nicolaou
EF2
Based on SMOK's video we now know the real acronym meaning for TIV:
Traffic law Ignorant Vehicle
Traffic law Ignorant Vehicle
John J. Holt
EF0
Chaser Idiot
Alex you should post the info and you should have contacted law enforcement ... Chasers like this are giving other chasers a bad name. Yes I do have amber and clear lights on my truck and I am in law enforcement but that gives me no right to break state laws with my personal vehicle...
Alex you should post the info and you should have contacted law enforcement ... Chasers like this are giving other chasers a bad name. Yes I do have amber and clear lights on my truck and I am in law enforcement but that gives me no right to break state laws with my personal vehicle...
Jared Thompson
EF0
LoL Wow looks as if he passed 4 or 5 cars going up hill in a NO passing lane.. thats insane.
Last edited by a moderator:
Patrick Martin
EF4
I'm thinking that the scariest or most dangerous Discovery channel job is no longer being a camera guy on a crab boat in the Bering Sea.
Michael Nicolaou
EF2
John Erwin
EF5
I find it odd that people keep bringing up "new legislation" in regards to storm chasing. There's already adequate laws on the books; it's simply a matter of how busy Law Enforcement is at the time. I personally believe that what we'll see is less tolerance for @ss-hattery than what might have existed in the past. Probably a good thing overall.
Connor McCrorey
EF3
I must be the only one who has chased every opportunity this year, seen many tornadoes, and NOT had problems with convergence. I was one of only a few people that I know who saw the tornado east of Marietta on 5/10, and I saw the tornado south of Paul's Valley last night with just a few other chasers (report coming later today). I guess it's all chance. Last year I chased 6/7/09, and that was the worst convergence I've ever seen. This year just hasn't been bad for me.
I guess my point is that it's still possible to have good chases without getting caught up in all of the traffic. If possible, I probably would have been farther north yesterday, along the front, where all of the crowds were. And on 5/10, I probably would have been farther north as well. But both of these days (I picked them because they're the only days I've heard of this year with people REALLY complaining about convergence) have been amazing chases for me that involved no problems whatsoever with traffic.
I guess my point is that it's still possible to have good chases without getting caught up in all of the traffic. If possible, I probably would have been farther north yesterday, along the front, where all of the crowds were. And on 5/10, I probably would have been farther north as well. But both of these days (I picked them because they're the only days I've heard of this year with people REALLY complaining about convergence) have been amazing chases for me that involved no problems whatsoever with traffic.
Connor McCrorey
EF3
I agree, and I was just thinking that. There's just no feasible way to regulate storm chasing. I wouldn't be surprised to see law enforcement crack down in the near future, and I think they should. But we've all seen it. Cops standing on the side of the road watching the storm, while chasers (myself included) blast by them doing speeds that flirt with triple digits. So while more intense enforcement of traffic laws may come in the next few years, I wouldn't even count on that when near a tornadic storm.
James Siler
EF3
I was out on the Watonga, Kingfisher, Guthrie storm yesterday and it was unreal the amount of things i saw. I to seen the black SUV with the lights and sirens, and many times encountered people standing in the road or even parked halfway in the road. I thought that the routes we were taking were going to be out of the way but eventually our's merged with everyone elses. I can't speak for everyone else out there but one of the things we try to do is, when stopping, is to signal to let everyone know that we are fixing to start braking but I also try to hunt for an empty area that i can pull completly off the road like a drive entrance into a oil derrick area or a cell tower entrance. We also try to go for an area that is not already clogged up with other chasers. One of the things I did notice is that there did seem to be alot of people out yesterday that were local's wanting to see a tornado! There was a tour group that stopped next to us east of Guthrie yesterday and at that time they had pulled off the road completly but just barely. One other thing there was someone in a white jeep grand cherokee that kept following us for quite a bit of our chase. Have no idea who they were.
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