James Hilger
EF4
Yeah it was kinda a weird feeling. Having other chasers around is one thing, but i couldn't get used to the chopper hovering above.
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After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.
I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.
For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.
From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.
Sincerely, Jeff D.
5/19 Chaser Convergence
- Thread starter James Hilger
- Start date
Alex Fisher
EF1
While on the Taloga-Watonga-Guthrie supercell last night, I witnessed some of the most irresponsible chasing and driving that I have ever seen in my entire life. Specifically, a black SUV (I have the license plate, make/model of the car, and side graphics/writing as well as pictures) was running sirens and red/yellow lights on the car, passing inappropriately (to the point where oncoming cars were run off the road), and speeding excessively.
I just felt that this needed to be aired. Being a stormchaser is not a license to run sirens and lights, act like you are on the racetrack and be a menace to everyone around you.
At this point I'm not entirely sure what to do with the information I have. I don't want to post it or call local law enforcement (don't like to get the police involved), but I think the person involved should at least explain themselves and/or apologize.
By the way, it was a Texas plate, so even if you are Texas LEO, you have no jurisdiction and should not be running sirens and red lights in Oklahoma. That would be no excuse.
I just felt that this needed to be aired. Being a stormchaser is not a license to run sirens and lights, act like you are on the racetrack and be a menace to everyone around you.
At this point I'm not entirely sure what to do with the information I have. I don't want to post it or call local law enforcement (don't like to get the police involved), but I think the person involved should at least explain themselves and/or apologize.
By the way, it was a Texas plate, so even if you are Texas LEO, you have no jurisdiction and should not be running sirens and red lights in Oklahoma. That would be no excuse.
James Langford
EF4
If things are as you say, especially with other cars getting run off the road, I would definitely inform the local LEOs. Even better would have been to report them to 911 as you were observing the behavior. I have been in that situation (not chasing), and have reported it and had the local LEOs act upon my information.
James
Brandon Goforth
Chaser convergence on that storm was a nightmare, and made it nearly unchaseable. And yes, I also saw that ass clown with the red/blue/yellow lights and sirens...that was about the biggest joke I've seen in quite some time. That stretch along highway 33 was about the best example of why chaser convergence is becoming a big problem. I could've sworn that running red/blue lights with sirens in OK is illegal unless you are law enforcement or an emergency vehicle. I'd have to check on that, but if it is, I'd turn the guy in.
Alex Fisher
EF1
47 O.S. [Oklahoma Statutes] § 12-227 provides:
B. Except as provided in Sections 12-218, 12-218.1, 12-228 and 12-229 of this title, no person shall drive or move any vehicle or equipment upon any highway with any lamp or device thereon displaying or capable of displaying a red or blue light visible from directly in front of the center thereof.
C. Flashing lights are prohibited except on:
1. An authorized emergency vehicle, as provided in Section 12-218 of this title;
2. A school bus or a church bus, as provided in Section 12-228 of this title;
3. Any snow-removal and construction, and maintenance equipment, as provided in Section 12-229 of this title;
4. A wrecker or tow vehicle while at the scene of an emergency or loading or unloading a vehicle in close proximity to traffic as needed for safety precautions or as a means of indicating the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing, as provided in Section 12-218.1 of this title;
5. Any vehicle as a means of indicating a right or left turn, as provided in Sections 12-206.1 and 12-606 of this title;
6. Any vehicle as means of indicating the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing, as provided in Section 12-220 of this title;
7. Any vehicle displaying side marker lamps which flash in conjunction with turn signal lamps or vehicle hazard warning lamps, as provided in Section 12-220 of this title;
8. A farm tractor or an implement of husbandry, as provided in Section 12-215 of this title; or
9. Any vehicle used while performing official duties as a rural or contract route mail carrier of the United States Postal Service, as provided in Section 12-218.2 of this title.
D. Blue lights are prohibited except as allowed in Sections 12-218, 12-218.1 and 12-229 of this title.
E. Any person violating the provisions of subsection B, C or D of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six (6) months, or by a fine not exceeding Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
B. Except as provided in Sections 12-218, 12-218.1, 12-228 and 12-229 of this title, no person shall drive or move any vehicle or equipment upon any highway with any lamp or device thereon displaying or capable of displaying a red or blue light visible from directly in front of the center thereof.
C. Flashing lights are prohibited except on:
1. An authorized emergency vehicle, as provided in Section 12-218 of this title;
2. A school bus or a church bus, as provided in Section 12-228 of this title;
3. Any snow-removal and construction, and maintenance equipment, as provided in Section 12-229 of this title;
4. A wrecker or tow vehicle while at the scene of an emergency or loading or unloading a vehicle in close proximity to traffic as needed for safety precautions or as a means of indicating the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing, as provided in Section 12-218.1 of this title;
5. Any vehicle as a means of indicating a right or left turn, as provided in Sections 12-206.1 and 12-606 of this title;
6. Any vehicle as means of indicating the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing, as provided in Section 12-220 of this title;
7. Any vehicle displaying side marker lamps which flash in conjunction with turn signal lamps or vehicle hazard warning lamps, as provided in Section 12-220 of this title;
8. A farm tractor or an implement of husbandry, as provided in Section 12-215 of this title; or
9. Any vehicle used while performing official duties as a rural or contract route mail carrier of the United States Postal Service, as provided in Section 12-218.2 of this title.
D. Blue lights are prohibited except as allowed in Sections 12-218, 12-218.1 and 12-229 of this title.
E. Any person violating the provisions of subsection B, C or D of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six (6) months, or by a fine not exceeding Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00), or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Mike Weiss
EF1
This is my post on Facebook that I made a few ago...I like to think of myself as a responsible and safe chaser. I have been chasing for a good many years. I admit the traffic was nightmarish yesterday. But I did stuff that I am not proud of and am openly admitting my "Dumbassessness" to all.
Ok... I admit it..Im an idiot...As a chaser for many years and a LEO(Formerly) I do know better and try to teach better...My vehicle does have a siren and it was used yesterday...If I offended anyone...I am apologizing to you. I am, at this point, reconsidering how I chase and actually, why I chase. I do, just like everyone else, have a love for ... See More storms and weather. But, in hindsight, can see that I need to make some changes to the way I chase and why. I did have somewhat of a official capacity, yesterday, but I will not broach that subject here. Just to say, before the bashing, that I deeply apologize to any and all due to my actions yesterday.
So if you want to bash me..I do deserve it and will take it. I am going to make some changes to the way I chase, especially in regards to yesterday. On hindsight, yesterday was not a fun chase for me, and I hope that I did not or will not bring any harmful or negative feedback upon the chase community or those that I call my chaser friends.
Ok... I admit it..Im an idiot...As a chaser for many years and a LEO(Formerly) I do know better and try to teach better...My vehicle does have a siren and it was used yesterday...If I offended anyone...I am apologizing to you. I am, at this point, reconsidering how I chase and actually, why I chase. I do, just like everyone else, have a love for ... See More storms and weather. But, in hindsight, can see that I need to make some changes to the way I chase and why. I did have somewhat of a official capacity, yesterday, but I will not broach that subject here. Just to say, before the bashing, that I deeply apologize to any and all due to my actions yesterday.
So if you want to bash me..I do deserve it and will take it. I am going to make some changes to the way I chase, especially in regards to yesterday. On hindsight, yesterday was not a fun chase for me, and I hope that I did not or will not bring any harmful or negative feedback upon the chase community or those that I call my chaser friends.
Ryan McGinnis
EF5
Ha! We've gone from "are lightbars okay?" to "are sirens okay?"
For those that really have to ask, no, running Code 3 sirens while chasing to make traffic move over is not legal, unless you're a LEO or EMT or Firefighter in your jurisdiction and are running Code 3 to respond to an emergency.
And yes, even just running reds and blues in OK can get you arrested: http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12429215
Dunno what you're going to do with that video, but personally I'd send it to the Sheriff of whatever county you were in or to the State Patrol of OK. Moving traffic with a siren goes waaaay over the line.
It's probably some volunteer firefighter chaser from TX who has the lights and siren for a reason... in Texas.
*edit* Doh! Looks like the whole Scooby case was solved while I was typing!
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Michael Nicolaou
EF2
Mike,
I think many if not most of the members here appreciate your honesty, candor, and quick response to this event as I do. I certainly hope that a level of decorum can be utilized in any addiitonal posts in this thread.
Good luck to you as you reevaluate your reasons and methods of chasing.
I think many if not most of the members here appreciate your honesty, candor, and quick response to this event as I do. I certainly hope that a level of decorum can be utilized in any addiitonal posts in this thread.
Good luck to you as you reevaluate your reasons and methods of chasing.
Rob Wadsworth
EF5
On a side note concerning chaser convergence yesterday, I liked what TWC was indirectly and directly saying about it.
Many times TWC crew covering OK yesterday referred to many chasers in the process of doing their own live VORTEX II stream. They capitalized upon it. They also mentioned several times their own beliefs about chasers' value in being out there. Lanny Dean - and others - were called up via telephone and were used many times to provide info because of what the VORTEX team failed to come up with. Including the large cone video and other videos throughout the day. Obviously, it is in the best interest of TWC and chasers to cover it as it happened. I think TWC has gone up a few notches in my eyes - keep it up!
Convergence and possible breakouts will always go hand-in-hand. Besides being the best available source of real news and information - I suppose that @$$ hats may always be in the mix. Accidents are also inevitable, as eyes are often on the storm and less on the road. This is the real failure.
I am certain that in the archives of US history and storms, that many chasers will no doubt play a part of its weather history over and over again. If @$$ hats bother some as much as it does, perhaps it is best to air grievances here - to self-police the chase community. Embarrassing some may be the way to keep a lid on it. Now, if someone wants to chase storms while wearing a mushroom costume - I don't know what to say about that - except that one cannot stop them either. Depends upon the @$$ hat I guess...
Illegal use of lights and siren is SURELY wrong unless they are a LEO in their jurisdiction...
Many times TWC crew covering OK yesterday referred to many chasers in the process of doing their own live VORTEX II stream. They capitalized upon it. They also mentioned several times their own beliefs about chasers' value in being out there. Lanny Dean - and others - were called up via telephone and were used many times to provide info because of what the VORTEX team failed to come up with. Including the large cone video and other videos throughout the day. Obviously, it is in the best interest of TWC and chasers to cover it as it happened. I think TWC has gone up a few notches in my eyes - keep it up!
Convergence and possible breakouts will always go hand-in-hand. Besides being the best available source of real news and information - I suppose that @$$ hats may always be in the mix. Accidents are also inevitable, as eyes are often on the storm and less on the road. This is the real failure.
I am certain that in the archives of US history and storms, that many chasers will no doubt play a part of its weather history over and over again. If @$$ hats bother some as much as it does, perhaps it is best to air grievances here - to self-police the chase community. Embarrassing some may be the way to keep a lid on it. Now, if someone wants to chase storms while wearing a mushroom costume - I don't know what to say about that - except that one cannot stop them either. Depends upon the @$$ hat I guess...
Illegal use of lights and siren is SURELY wrong unless they are a LEO in their jurisdiction...
Terry Kern
EF0
Anybody else on OK-33 observe the TIV vehicle going eastbound passing vehicles in a no passing zone on the westbound lane going uphill? If another vehicle had crested the hill from the opposite direction on that westbound lane, a tank traveling at 90mph colliding with a vehicle traveling at 60-70, would've made for an almost un-imaginable head-on collision. And not to mention the several other vehicles, including me that would've been involved. I'm curious if anybody caught this on video.
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Matthew Crowther
EF4
A question: How many here would deliberately reduce their chances of seeing a tornado in order to avoid the type of mess like yesterday? I see several methods for doing this:
Go for a "secondary" target that could be less likely to produce tornadoes- yesterday one could have chased near DDC and seen the landspouts or stayed in SW Oklahoma and gotten on the tornadic storm near dark south of Purcell. When there is a small SPC higher tornado risk area deliberately go to the 2% or 5% and stay out of the hatched 15% zone.
An alternate method is do not try and get up close to the "action area" of a particular storm and hang back several miles- you get structure shots but in an HP storm you may easily miss the tornado. A method for accomplishing this would be to monitor SN- if it shows a mass of icons on a storm or heading for a storm, go somewhere else or stay farther away.
Another way is to avoid the "heart" of chase season and chase either much earlier (April) and/or later (Mid-June-July). Also avoid Oklahoma, KS and west TX- chase WY, MT, the Dakotas, IA etc where possible.
I am not ready to give up on chasing just yet but I would not have been pleased with yesterday's fiasco (I did not chase) and would have considered not messing with the masses even if it meant missing the tornadoes. I will increasingly try and use a few of the above strategies on a more regular basis.
Go for a "secondary" target that could be less likely to produce tornadoes- yesterday one could have chased near DDC and seen the landspouts or stayed in SW Oklahoma and gotten on the tornadic storm near dark south of Purcell. When there is a small SPC higher tornado risk area deliberately go to the 2% or 5% and stay out of the hatched 15% zone.
An alternate method is do not try and get up close to the "action area" of a particular storm and hang back several miles- you get structure shots but in an HP storm you may easily miss the tornado. A method for accomplishing this would be to monitor SN- if it shows a mass of icons on a storm or heading for a storm, go somewhere else or stay farther away.
Another way is to avoid the "heart" of chase season and chase either much earlier (April) and/or later (Mid-June-July). Also avoid Oklahoma, KS and west TX- chase WY, MT, the Dakotas, IA etc where possible.
I am not ready to give up on chasing just yet but I would not have been pleased with yesterday's fiasco (I did not chase) and would have considered not messing with the masses even if it meant missing the tornadoes. I will increasingly try and use a few of the above strategies on a more regular basis.
Mike Moore
EF2
I think that's a good point. Chaser convergences are just like any other consideration when chasing a storm. (Road network, time of day, traffic, etc)
If I see a DOW and a line of chase vehicles in tow I start looking for alternate routes, or alternate cells.
If I see a DOW and a line of chase vehicles in tow I start looking for alternate routes, or alternate cells.
Joey Ketcham
I was unable to chase yesterday due to work and having a fuel pump changed, but I was stuck at home and was watching TWC live feed as they were tagging along with a team from Vortex 2. On at least two separate occasions Mike Bettes and Vortex 2 were forced to come to a complete stop because of people parked on the road watching the storm. I don't know if those people were storm chaser's, storm spotters, or local yahoo's but that was just ridiculous.
Ryan McGinnis
EF5
I'll repost what I posted on WX-Chase:
While I'm one of those "they should be obeying all traffic laws" guys, both the TIV and Vortex 2 have advanced scout vehicles and radio and in certain situations will utilize them to go ahead of the other vehicles and radio if it's safe to pass or not. While the TIV driver could not see over the crest of a hill, they likely had a scout vehicle on the other side of the hill radioing them that it was safe to pass.
Joey Ketcham
Steve Miller has posted a video on his website showing the TIV passing over a hill:
http://www.hamwx.com/?p=2949
http://www.hamwx.com/?p=2949
