2011-04-27 MISC: AL,TN,MS,KY,OH,IN,WV,GA

[Jeff Duda]

I would think you would add it one side..and subtract it on the other.

I was looking at this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3z...&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false


Gives an excellent discussion on how to add tornado vectors..probably should throw in the fact that it appear to be multi-vortex from the videos which would have increased the damage potential from the internal suction vortices.

Thanks for pointing out that book. I may have to buy it.

I'm not going to argue the findings and methods of Tom Grazulis, but that doesn't change the fact that the radar measures instantaneous velocities with the tornado's move speed already factored in. Thus, you wouldn't add anything to the wind speed in the image to get a sense of the actual ground relative wind speed.

 

[Dave Gallaher]

In fact, my weather radio stopped making alarms in midday. I thought it might have burned out from so much activity. The sirens never stopped in HSV, however.

 

[rdale]

I was kind of shocked at the number of "tornado emergency" type tornado warnings issued yesterday. I know there's some controversy in using the term tornado emergency, but the NWS has obviously adopted the term as official policy.

It was adopted last year - but it was used incorrectly by two offices this year. They are supposed to issue a "Tornado Warning" and put the TE in the text of the warning and/or followup SVSs. Several edited the header to replace "Warning" with "Emergency" which could have caused some major issues in dissemination.

 

[Ed Boik]

Do we really have to classify one as greater than the other? Can't we just call this Super Outbreak #2 and just let them both be once in a life time type events?

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Ben Toms]

In fact, my weather radio stopped making alarms in midday. I thought it might have burned out from so much activity. The sirens never stopped in HSV, however.

That would confirm the report that noaa radios weren't functioning during the peak of the outbreak.

 

[E. Clark]

I watched that video from the University Student this morning - and others.

I have just heard my umpteenth report from survivors - in or from public buildings and large store/malls - who 'had no idea what was going on'. England, (from the video) included. I watched the cam and heard sirens from nearby chase vehicles - I know that outdoor warning sirens were going off up to 12 minutes before that bastard hit the outskirts of Tuscaloosa. And Birmingham had up to 20-25 minute warning.

I AM PISSED.

We have spent TRILLIONS in taxpayer dollars to pay people to feel up our grannies, wives and 6 year olds at the airport but WE DON'T HAVE INTERNAL EBS IN OUR PUBLIC BUILDINGS? NOTHING? Warning sirens are not loud enough to penetrate to internal offices in large buildings?

Are you #ing kidding me??

More people have died in weather related disasters in the past 3 years than we EVER lost to attacks- and despite the trillions spent to 'keep everyone safe' they have done NOTHING to remediate the real dangers. And now they are cutting budgets on the institutions that do keep people alive every single day. I think a system like the Japanese have where there are sirens and spoken warnings - and to have any building- store, office, etc that holds more than 20 people have speakers installed connected to this system. It would not be any harder than wiring for internet or wifi.

And it is past time our power lines were all underground. Instead of repairing them in place over and over and over- they need to just run them underground.

 

[Penny Lehner]

True... much better data to be collected here. Though, I wonder what sort of advancements we can really make off of this information.... I can't imagine the handling of this situation being much better. The was recognized from the get go as an extremely volatile and dangerous situation. The watches and the wording pre-storm initiation reflected this. (I've never seen a 95%/95%) Media coverage was giant -- weather channel and local. Storms had huge lead times warning wise.

I feel as though we're nearing a point in meteorology where we can't better most warn times. The greatest gains in human safety are going to be advancements in engineering of homes -- really, great engineering exists, it's just not common enough -- and in actually human observance of severe weather. Basically... people taking note of the information that is at their disposal. This will save more lives than anything.

I'm not sure what it is going to take to get people to heed the warnings. I watched an interview earlier on CNN that had me floored. Gentleman stated it was a complete surprise and they had no warning in Tuscaloosa. Really? The reporter let it drop after he said that but the person in the studio made him ask if the tornado sirens were not going off. The gentleman stated they were but figured it was just for another severe thunderstorm. So while you can issue warnings and even broadcast the tornado live on the air (such as in Tuscaloosa) people are still going to ignore those warnings and go on with their daily lives. So when a deadly, extemely violent tornado comes screaming into their neighborhood, they are surprised and had no warning. Go figure.

 

[tarone]

I admit I was a bit shocked hearing the newsman just prior to the touchdown in Tuscaloosa say that people in cars should get under an underpass.

Regarding warnings inside buildings, I don't know what the procedures are everywhere, in N. Texas (where my father lives) they receive an automated phone call by the fire dept. warning them of a dangerous storms approach.

 

[rdale]

We have spent TRILLIONS in taxpayer dollars to pay people to feel up our grannies, wives and 6 year olds at the airport but WE DON'T HAVE INTERNAL EBS IN OUR PUBLIC BUILDINGS? NOTHING? Warning sirens are not loud enough to penetrate to internal offices in large buildings?

I shouldn't be paying for that. The users/owners of the building should be. If it was important enough for those survivors, they would have taken the initiative on their own.

Also remember than 70% of all warnings do not verify, and even out of the ones that do they only impact 1% of the target audience. So a LARGE majority of the time, this internal EBS is going to alert you to something that doesn't occur. Won't take too long before those wires get snipped

And it is past time our power lines were all underground. Instead of repairing them in place over and over and over- they need to just run them underground.

That costs a LOT more money. Is the electric company going to eat that? Should I subsidize your electric bill? Or should you pay for underground if you want underground?

 

[Brandon Jenkins]

Regarding warnings inside buildings, I don't know what the procedures are everywhere, in N. Texas (where my father lives) they receive an automated phone call by the fire dept. warning them of a dangerous storms approach.

This is called Storm Ready (at least in our community) and requires that said citizen sign up to receive these calls. Most people do not, so its effectiveness is low at this point.

 

[Kevin Walters]

I'm not sure what it is going to take to get people to heed the warnings. I watched an interview earlier on CNN that had me floored. Gentleman stated it was a complete surprise and they had no warning in Tuscaloosa. Really? The reporter let it drop after he said that but the person in the studio made him ask if the tornado sirens were not going off. The gentleman stated they were but figured it was just for another severe thunderstorm. So while you can issue warnings and even broadcast the tornado live on the air (such as in Tuscaloosa) people are still going to ignore those warnings and go on with their daily lives. So when a deadly, extemely violent tornado comes screaming into their neighborhood, they are surprised and had no warning. Go figure.

Some people are simply oblivious to the world around them, even in a life threatening situation.

 

[rdale]

Automated phone callouts for tornadoes won't work in a city. That's good for small towns or long lead alerts (i.e. Flood Watch, Blizzard Warning, etc.) Technology doesn't let you call 300,000 city residents in a minute.

 

[John Farley]

Some places do have internal warning systems. The university where I taught for 29 years, Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, has sirens inside the buildings as well as outside. So it can be done and is being done some places. But no warning system will necessarily save you, even if you do heed it, if you live in a mobile home court with no shelter or in a house with no basement, if the tornado is as violent as some of these appear to have been.

Jon Davies has made a post suggesting that this outbreak is now in the top ten on record in terms of fatalities, and also addressing some of the issues, beyond timely warnings, that affect fatalities in tornadoes:

http://davieswx.blogspot.com/2011/04/27-april-2011-tornado-outbreak-stunning.html

 

[Andy Jackson]

I'd say NWS/media has done their job excellently. It's very depressing to see houses reduced to matchsticks and it's not even May yet. The only change I see is to construct homes differently.

 

[Jake Orosi]

That would confirm the report that noaa radios weren't functioning during the peak of the outbreak.

Destroyed/damaged transmitters?