2/04/2007-2/9/2007 NOW: PA / NY (WINTER PRECIP / LES)

[Robert Dewey]

Could it be the snowfall rates that were so impressive in 1997? I mean, 40 inches in 8 hours is a lot of snow... It seems the event we are seeing now is in the 18-24 inches every 12 hours.

 

[Marko Korosec]

An intense snow band over lake Ontario getting its shape again and is going right over Watertown. Again there is 35dBz, new round is on the way.
Looks like it will be centered from central Lewis county north first, people is Oswego county will at least have some calm hours. Better clean those roofs fast, its gonna hurt if 20-30" of new snow come over those 90".

I am so impressed about those storm totals, I just had to post this...

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
SPOTTER REPORTS
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY
1125 AM EST THU FEB 8 2007

********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************

..OSWEGO COUNTY

MEXICO 76.0 1040 AM 2/8
OSWEGO 71.0 900 AM 2/8
MEXICO 64.0 1100 AM 2/8
PULASKI 59.0 1100 AM 2/8
PARISH 88.0 1115 AM 2/8


http://kamala.cod.edu/offs/KBUF/0702081625.nous41.html

 

[B Ozanne]

With the complete collapse of the snow band today would this be considered a new event? I guess the longwave pattern is still in place, and they haven't gone 24 hours without snow so maybe it is the same storm.

 

[Dan Robinson]

MODIS image of Ontario lake-effect band:

http://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/mo...&image=a1.07038.1833.LakeOntario.143.250m.jpg

 

[HAltschule]

As of 7:30 AM this morning (Friday), these remarkable snow totals on the ground were recevied by the NWS. Amazing that this event has produced about 8 FEET OF SNOW so far!!!!!

Parish, NY: 94.0"
N. Osceola, NY: 85.0"

As of Midnight this AM:

Mexico, NY: 88.0"

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Bear in mind that these snow totals are for total accumulation, and not snow depth. For example, from a recent LSR (which I amended) which reports both numbers for the same location for the same reporting time:

***************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL***************

...OSWEGO COUNTY...
PARISH 94.0 730 AM 2/9

******************SNOW ON GROUND******************

...OSWEGO COUNTY...
PARISH 49.0 730 AM 2/9

Note that the snow depth is nearly 50% of the total snow accumulation. Why? Is it because of melting? No. Because lake-effect snow has such a low liquid-water content, it can be easily compressed by its own weight. Lake effect show typically settles quite a bit as it is falling and after it falls.

The proper way to measure snow is at regular intervals, and ideally with a snowboard. You clean the snow board after each measurement and start with a "clean slate". I'm not sure what the prescribed measurement interval is, but the total snowfall can be a factor of the frequency of this interval, if settling is a factor.

 

[B Ozanne]

I'm not sure what the prescribed measurement interval is, but the total snowfall can be a factor of the frequency of this interval, if settling is a factor.

If you want the data to be official it is every six hours. Many a record has been tossed due to too much clearning.

During the blizzard of 2006 in CT I measured 21 inches. I cleared my board every six hours. The snow in that storm was incredibly light, and we never had 21 inches on the ground. A few hours after it stopp we were down to 15 inches, and within 24 hours there was less than a foot, and no melting had occured.

One caveat is that you get to record the maximum amount on the board during the six hours. So if it snowed 4 inches in the first 3 hours, then 2 inches melts by the time you do the observation the snowfall is still 4 inches.

 

[Marko Korosec]

Note that the snow depth is nearly 50% of the total snow accumulation. Why? Is it because of melting? No. Because lake-effect snow has such a low liquid-water content, it can be easily compressed by its own weight. Lake effect show typically settles quite a bit as it is falling and after it falls.

The proper way to measure snow is at regular intervals, and ideally with a snowboard. You clean the snow board after each measurement and start with a "clean slate". I'm not sure what the prescribed measurement interval is, but the total snowfall can be a factor of the frequency of this interval, if settling is a factor.

Good point there, Greg!
It could be quite a mess especially for the media who always look for the most excited numbers and are publishing informations like in today's newspaper in my country, its title was "New York state drowning in two and a half metres of snow" We're measuring snow every 24h at 06UTC in the morning, I am not sure if this is right. Of course you'd get tenths of inches if you would be measuring new snow every hour, you can't get such compressing like you'd get it in 12 or 24h.

According to those 20-30:1 snow ratios it was expected that the ratio storm total snowfalls vs. snow on the ground will be close to 2:1.

I made a screenshot of today's report for Parish...official report says 100" of storm totall: http://shrani.si/files/untitledt19n.png

http://kamala.cod.edu/offs/KBUF/0702101112.nous41.html

And there is new intense snow band on going over Lewis and Jefferson county.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Either way you slice it, 94 inches is a lot of snow to fall. Compressing that 94 inches down to 49 inches just means there is a pretty solid layer (+4 feet) of snow which most likely isn't easily moved. If the snow is compressed by 50% without melting, does that mean the snow to liquid ratio is also reduced by 50% (i.e. giving more liquid per area / heavier snowfall weight)? I would assume so, since you're just doubling the amount of snow while keeping the same volume.

 

[Marko Korosec]

WOW finally a report from Redfield on Oswego county, I was waiting for it as it looked like the max could be somewhere there, at least according to radar rainfall accumulations.

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
SPOTTER REPORTS
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BUFFALO NY
429 PM EST SAT FEB 10 2007

THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 1
HOURS FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION.
APPRECIATION IS EXTENDED TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE
OBSERVERS...SKYWARN SPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS
SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLE ON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/BUFFALO

**********************24 HOUR SNOWFALL**********************

24 HOUR SNOWFALL

NEW YORK

...OSWEGO COUNTY...
REDFIELD 14.0

********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************

STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL (2/3-2/10)

NEW YORK

...OSWEGO COUNTY...
REDFIELD 131.0

Yes, that is 333cm in one week! Unbelivable! would this be a record?!

http://kamala.cod.edu/ny/latest.nous41.KBUF.html

EDIT: Anyone knows for America's greatest snowfalls for different time periods, like 6h, 24h, one week, one month, etc.?

 

[Bob Schafer]

Most snowfall...

I found this, anyway. Believe or don't:

http://express.howstuffworks.com/wq-snowstorm.htm

"[FONT=arial,helvetica][FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]Most snow in 24 hours - 76 inches (Silver Lake, CO)"
[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica][FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]"Most snow in one storm - 189 inches (Mt. Shasta, CA, Feb. 13-19, 1959)"[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[B Ozanne]

The unofficial 24 hour record is in Montague, NY with 77 inches, but that is in questions. There is another unofficial record in CA with around 85", but that is really in question.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news about this storm. While impressive, especially when you consider the population and location, the lake effect storms are just a sampling of what happens several times a winter out west.

Places like Alta, UT regulalry see 100"+ storms over the course of 3 or 4 days. And yes, people do live there. If you're looking for bigger storms go to Oregon and Washington. Not only do they get massive amounts of snow, they get massive amounts of water with it. Their snow is very dense and creates some of the biggest snowpacks in the world. Not to mention the single season records of well over 1000"+. But, due to the power of the media its usually not that news worthy.

 

[Marko Korosec]

Thanks for the info, guys!

I have to post this image, found it on easternuswx forums...best pic of the week

http://shrani.si/files/img8158t8b9.jpg

Looks like LES is over for few days, looking forward to the end of next week if LES will return into NY state.


EDIT: Oops, there is a new intense snow band on going with 35-40dBz max, shifting south from Jefferson into Lewis and Oswego county. Its ain't over yet!