What is the purpose of having a livecam?

[Chris Lott]

I know I don't post alot on here, but the bashing crap is really getting old. It's real easy to talk crap to someone - over a computer. The guys at severe studios provide a service that alot of chasers on here use- and alot, like myself, like to view. But now some of you on here want to bash them as "glory hogs." If you don't like what a chaser does, his chase style, his media attention, whatever it may be, let it go. Stick with what you do, and let other chasers do what they do. It's my own personal opinion, and all of you can say what you want to say, but to me this is really getting to be chicken*%$# attacks on other chasers, and it's getting old.

 

[Van DeWald]

I'm sure all of us have been in a situation at least once in our lives that we regretted getting ourselves into. Just last week, I got cored while chasing. Did I intend to do that? Nope. I had a great escape route in mind, it's just that the road was closed (unbeknownst to me until the very last moment), and my only choice was to ride the core out, or turn around and let it follow me out. You can well bet that I learned one heck of a life lesson in that one, and will do everything I can to never let that happen again.

Van

 

[V. Gensini]

I'm beyond the "live stream" part of this deal, I could care less either way. You love/hate it, more power to ya. Promote yourself all day, I know I'm gonna. The only differences are the mediums, audiences we target, and who keeps it real. But this ain't the point...

My issue is kinda what Gene was talking about. You can say "they made a mistake" all day long, but look at it more closely. Crap roads, data lost, wrapped circulations. All of these factors, to a pair of 10-year veteran chasers, should've been understood well before the data was lost, or the road started sucking, or whatever. "Making a mistake" that nearly costs you is the direct result of being in a situation you never should've been in the first place. You can push the envelope too far well before the trouble starts. As someone said, it's all cause-and-effect. There comes a point in every storm intercept where you cross that "line" to where you realize you are committing yourself to a situation that, if something unexpected does happen, you're screwed.

I had my turn making the big mistake that nearly got me in bad trouble, on May 5, 2002, along with about 40 others. We were visual, and from our position relative to the storm as it became dark, we were fine. As darkness set in fully, the storm turned hard right. There was no in-car radar then, and it was pitch black save for lightning strikes, so none of us knew what was coming until it was on top of us. It was both fun and scary, but I figured I was lucky...and decided not to push it again.

The May 12, 2005 hail deal, I knew that was coming...but those tornadoes were worth it, and I could SEE everything happening around us. Highly dangerous? Absolutely. But when you've got great visuals on everything, you can take those chances and be far better off than staring at an LCD.

Having radar in the car doesn't make me feel any better about trying to repeat those experiences. Maybe I'm just a wussy (I think my chase partners think so some times LOL). All I know is, no matter when I look out the window, I'm seeing stuff 6 minutes or more into the future of the guy staring at a computer.

Kudos to that. I was sitting right next to the chasers in question before they took off to chase this HP'ish blob. It was very clear to our eyes that the storm was being undercut by the cold front and becoming rain wrapped. Why even play around with this sort of meso?

 

[Shane Adams]

I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just wondering why people keep pretending it's all in the name of public service, when it's obvious television appearances are the goal. I watched the tornado clip. I watched one (of the many) interviews that followed it. This wasn't a by-chance situation. Calls were made, deals were done. It's a lot of work to set these things up, and people don't do it unless they are getting paid...I don't really see where 'public service' enters into that. Sell out all you want. But don't spin yourself into a saint when money is the goal.

There's certainly no harm in expressing an honest opinion, and the above is mine.

And yes, I know s**t happens out there. I was not shy earlier in this thread when I shared a few of my own screw-ups.

 

[Darren Addy]

Another lesson learned from this thread: Try to get a nowcaster that isn't distracted by monitoring a rowdy chatroom while simultaneously providing you with information.

I agree with what everyone is saying about learning to use your eyes, particular once you are on the storm. However, your eyes aren't a lot of good when you are in the precip of a HP storm. I don't think there is any question that, for reasons Novy mentioned earlier, chasers are taking more chances and getting closer to the Danger Zone (for whatever reason). However, the only chaser's decision-making process we really have to worry about is ourself - and the only one whose behavior we have any hope of controlling.

 

[beaudodson]

Another lesson learned from this thread: Try to get a nowcaster that isn't distracted by monitoring a rowdy chatroom while simultaneously providing you with information.

I agree with what everyone is saying about learning to use your eyes, particular once you are on the storm. However, your eyes aren't a lot of good when you are in the precip of a HP storm. I don't think there is any question that, for reasons Novy mentioned earlier, chasers are taking more chances and getting closer to the Danger Zone (for whatever reason). However, the only chaser's decision-making process we really have to worry about is ourself - and the only one whose behavior we have any hope of controlling.

It is hard to tell if "more" chasers are getting closer. I say this because there are more chasers than there were back in the 1970s (80s even). We also live in the 24/7 news cycle world. Everyone has a still camera and everyone has a video camera.

Percentage wise, who knows how many people are getting closer and closer. I agree that there is that perception out there. Not sure what the reality of the comment is. Hard to say.

There are defin some "wild" chasers among the field. Some are braver than others. Braver? I am using that rather loosely!

 

[John Wetter]

I agree with pretty much everybody here. As bad as it was getting that close, you shouldn't be putting yourself in a place where losing data will get you hurt. You also need to read the storm. The worst part of this is then putting the video everywhere. If I did something this stupid, no one would ever see the video as it would get buried in the drawer and never seen again. It could very well get people killed, just like the Andover, KS 'girder' video has gotten people killed. Both bad situations that got turned into media events.

-John

 

[Olivier Staiger]

> For everyone that is running a livecam while chasing let me ask you this... Why do you do this? I imagine that it is for the fame and glory?

yeah...right ! so did Gutenberg... it's about SHARING, my friend.

there is no basic difference between a chatroom, a forum, a mailing list, a website, a 24h-later upload to youtube, a blog, a live webcam, a live webstream, a book, a magazine, a radio station, a TV station, any media... it's about sharing. spread the news. get public. enhance wisdom. increase knowledge.

money? fame? glory ?... Pff ! that's just collateral damage....

oh yes, and ... there is a geek in some of us .... including myself... we just LOVE the latest hi-tech gimmick .

 

[MatthewCarman]

I am glad they are ok but why make a appearance on CNN? I do not know thier reasons for going onto CNN so I will not judge them but I do not see any good reasons for it other then making some money or getting thier faces on tv. If it was to explain why they did what they did the only people who realy care are here on ST so they could have just did that here in this discusion. I know if I was hit by a tornado I would mabey tell my family/relatives the story once in awhile but I would sure be keeping it a secret from everyone else. The last thing I would do is go on national tellivision and say I was hit by a tornado. These guys are making it public and I do not understand why.

I hope they learned a lesson from this and I am glad they are ok.

 

[Darrin Rasberry]

I'll say one thing. I don't know myself how hard this year is in comparison to others, but my chasing partner mentioned it was one of the hardest chasing years he's ever had. We've seen tornadoes and been on storms producing tornadoes when we were on them, but every single time it's been fast storm motions, geography, and rain - with #1 being rain - that has prevented us from actually seeing a tornado well enough to capture it on film (except for one little spinup on May 22nd). For us northerner chasers at least, it has not been a photogenic year, and the three times we could afford to go south of the Kansas border just happened to be tough days down there, too.

Tons of great chasers have caught tons of tornadoes up here, but I have yet to see more than just a few "awesome" videos. Most of them have been a few seconds to two minutes long, or hazy shots, etc. That's nothing to speak for the quality of the chaser - but instead for the quality of the storm. They've been rough. Not even those chasers keen enough to have caught Parkersburg from its birth were able to keep in position for the whole chase - roads were cut off and other paths, like ours, were blocked by additional tornadoes or tornadic circulation nearby.

Attendant to this is still the need to provide that excellent footage. If everyone else is getting into the same basic situation we are, and finding themselves on the borderline for danger long before they can clearly see a tornado, then some are getting footage while we are seeking a safer position - the decision to cross the "safe line" is theirs, while the decision to stay behind it is ours.

I've been called a "bird-watcher" for being safety-first and for not calling anything short of getting a tornado a "bust," but I'm a storm chaser, not specifically a tornado chaser. Do I want to be on the media? No, for the very reasons that David Drummond brought up. But if this happened to me - if I got struck by a tornado - I'd be the first to use any soapbox I can stand on to say to as many people as possible what the dangers were, and that stormchasing is a generally safe activity given that one sufficiently prepares beforehand and stays out of situations like these. If I were turned into the national fool because of it, I wouldn't care if I knew at least one person might benefit from the analysis of my error. Any money I'd earn from these "appearances" I'd use to cover the expenses to travel there, and then fork the runoff to the Boy Scouts.

On the other hand, there are always situations that arise which will place one in danger, no matter the preparation. When we were in Nebraska two days ago, we chased an area of rotation north of Omaha on a state highway that turned sharply. The road was "interstate-ish" and busy, with no area to pull off the road without either ditching out or placing us in an unsafe position relative to the cars, and no way to immediately bail back to the different route due to a median. Our exit on the atlas turned out to be blocked for construction in reality, and an unmapped quick turn eventually put us in a place where we could not position reliably without the threat of the area of rotation moving directly over our heads.

We had to find a crossover on the median, do what was likely an illegal U-turn, and backtrack down the highway south until the rotation was safely on my right and behind me. If we were one minute later than that, we would have potentially had to pull over, crawl in a ditch, and assume the second-grade tornado position as the circulation passed over or near us. IIRC it is the same storm that eventually produced the killer tornado when it went on the other side of the river. We were lucky with timing, but if the situation was slightly different, we may not have been so lucky.

Preparation, experience, and knowledge, as well as discretion, can minimize danger, but of course it is never entirely out of the question if you are positioning for rotation. Even if you decide you're still behind the "danger line," especially on a day like yesterday, you may in reality have already crossed it long ago. That being said, if what approaching looks potentially rain-wrapped and I am cut off from all information to verify or deny that assumption, then I am going to bail out. There will be other storms.

As for the subject of livecams in and of itself, refer to Shane's blog for a statement that I couldn't write better if I had a gun to my head. It's a chaser's right to have a livecam for whatever reason (family and friends, media, NWS, ???, profit) but it should be no excuse to stretch bravery into stupidity. Whether that applies to this particular chaser(s) is something I cannot give an opinion about, because I haven't seen the video nor heard their side of the story. If this video is up, I would appreciate a link via this thread or a PM.

 

[Greg Ansel]

Sometimes it helps...

"It could very well get people killed, just like the Andover, KS 'girder' video has gotten people killed. Both bad situations that got turned into media events."

I think that after this aired, I heard more about how people should NOT do this becuase most EMs didn't realize how the tornado winds were channeled under the overpasses until they saw this video and started doing more research. Before this, I believe people were told to hide under overpasses. So seeing firsthand the danger probably has helped. Not sure if the same applies to this situation, but I am certain that most civilian non-chasers would not try to go into a storm like Kory and Kenny went into anywway. And if they did, now they know what could happen.

Greg Ansel
Team Remora
Former Bone-Head Award Recipient

 

[Jason A.C. Brock]

Sheesh

How about you chase your storm the way you wan to with whatever gadgets and gizmos you have or dont have and you actually tyr and enjoy your hobby....and Ill do the same. Ill yell and scream and even curse at you behind my steering wheel when I want to and where I want to for whatever reason I want to.......but at the end of the day.....Im going to enjoy that I can take awesome pics and videos 9or at least attempt to) in a country where I can do so where and when I want to
I can see how so many newbies are terrified to post or say or do anything on any storm related forums in fear of being blasted by "the pros and the experts". My advice is as long as your not hurting anyone or breaking laws left and right......go chase and have fun....and if ya want to say or do something that doesnt do any of the law breaking or hurting someone else.....do it and or say it.
Nobody is getting rich or famous chasing storms.....maybe we think someone is famous in our little storm chasing reality world of our own....but about 95% of the public would say.....who?
Enjoy your hobby (or if your lucky enough....your job) and stop worrying about what other people have to say or think of you. Half of us spend half our lives worrying about what other people think of us and 95% of the time.....unless she is a Amanda Kerr clone.......who cares!
I have a webcam but I dont stream it to anyone but my few friends on my yahoo messenger....why.....because I can and I like storms and gizmos.
I started chasing in 1992 and its amazing the leaps chasing has made.....a newbie chaser in 2008 has ALOT better odds than a newbie chaser in 1992 ever had if he has the gizmos. Chasing has gotten amazingly easy if your jsut looking for severe storms.....the mesoscale details maybe are not so easy but most of you get my point.
And if ya dont get my point then yes I think stormchasing is easy and even an idiot can do it. For those who dont get sarcasm......the new technology of the day has a wonderful tool called Wikipedia.com....however if ya have to look up sarcasm on it then.....I think its a lost cause.

 

[Adam Lucio]

Word Jason. Word.

Who cares if they were on CNN seriously. If a media outlet contacted them to do a story and they agreed so what? Do you honestly think theyre gonan say "Sorry cant do it becasue I will get flamed for being a yahoo sellout on stormtrack.] Theres a public interest in the subject, always has been always will be. They had an experience and wanted to share it. As we all do with our DVDs, websites, blogs, whatever...

Now...if they sent in the footage with big red flags all like "LOOK WHAT I GOT GIVE ME MONEY"!!! Then thats kinda....lame....but at the same time...thats their right. Everyone has their motives, if they wanna take the risk who am I to tell them not to. Im going to chase my way and take the risks I want to get the shot I want. Were all driven by the same passion though.

Whatever someone else does has no relevance to me...im not worried about [nor do i care about] my image being ruined by the actions of someone else. If someone wants to judge me by actions other than my own....that person isn't worth knowing anyways and in my opinion has the mentality of a 3rd grader.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

For everyone who is saying that they purposely got too close to the tornado or they should've tried to view it from a different place, reality is yesterday those storms contained so much rain that it was near impossible to see them, the only way you could see them is if you were right next to them or in them, and you wouldn't be able to see them coming at you through the rain. I was no more than 3-4 miles south of a tornado near Spencer, IA and still could not see it due to the rain. The observing from the SE or SW idea was no good either since the storms were in a line, so there was no place to be able to see it from the south, north, west, the only way you would've see them is if you were right up next to it and in the path of it. Now, i'm not speaking for Kory or anyone else caught out of position yesterday, but these were not the normal storms where you see the tornado from 10 miles in pretty much any direction.

As for the streaming video part, i like and i think its cool to be able to see what someone else is seeing, especially if they are in a good looking storm. Like others have said, if i cant chase a day or the setup is too far away, the ability to watch streaming video of where i want to be is pretty cool.

I'd have to concurr on this one. The whole line looked like a giant squall (which is was), and I kept wondering why the heck they were issuing tornado warnings for it, as even 5 miles out, I could see nothing that looked even remotely like structure I'd associate with tornadoes. And then I pulled off onto an exit, sat atop a bridge, and blammo -- a large rotating walll cloud comes into view a mile or so away to the southwest. Returned from whence I came pretty fast. I don't have much experience chasing embedded supercells, and if that's what they're like, they're not much fun and real nailbiters.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

For someone who's not in it for the fame or glory sure is spending a lot of time on TV, just today they were on:

Larry King Live (CNN)
Fox Report with Shepard Smith (Fox News Channel)
Nightline (ABC)
CNN Headline News
WOWT in Omaha, NE

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, just had to laugh at the "not for fame and glory" comment when Kory has been on almost every national news media to exist not including all the local media.

The problem with this is that you're using fallacious logic in assuming that just because they're on CNN, they must have the motives you imputed. I can think of any number of scenarios where a chaser could end up in the national news and yet not have originally gone out that day with the intention of getting "fame and glory". One can go out the door with the intention of just having fun and shooting a few snaps and stumble upon a national news story that has the networks beating at your door. I could go out to chase tomorrow with the intention of taking some beautiful structure shots and instead be the only guy to capture a tornado hitting a nuclear power plant that goes into a spectacular meltdown. You can bet I wouldn't be keeping shots like that to myself, I'd be retiring off of them.

These guys run a biz based on chasing -- the streaming of severe video. It's a pretty terrific idea, and opens up a market for many that could potentially pay for the hobby (and then some!) if the people running the service execute the licensing correctly. It also helps the NWS out quite a bit and in doing so performs a public service. Now anyone who runs a biz knows that one of the keys to making it successful is getting the word out that it exists. Not much better way to get the word out than via the national media, yes? If guys like Tom Hanks and Donald Trump are willing sit across from Larry King to plug their movie or book or whatever, I suspect it's a pretty good resource to get the word out. Buying that kind of publicity would cost millions. I find it confusing that so many would look down on them for doing these interviews.