David Drummond
Member
Steve, that requires common caring and compassion for other human beings.
I am still waiting for those that never make any mistakes while chasing to show us the pictures of the nail holes in their hands and feet.
What is the purpose of having a livecam?
- Thread starter Mark Sefried
- Start date
Steve, that requires common caring and compassion for other human beings.
I am still waiting for those that never make any mistakes while chasing to show us the pictures of the nail holes in their hands and feet.
Bill Hark
EF5
I am hoping to have one set up for the 2009 season. There is nothing wrong with running one, and I don't think running a livecam has anything to do with chaser behavior. I am very glad the two chasers are all right. To blame what could have been a bad outcome on a livecam is absolutely ridiculous.
As an observer, I do find the livecam to be useful when studying storms on radar and comparing to the ground truth. I do know that a number of NWS forecasters will check out the livefeeds. I also just enjoy watching them when I am stuck at home and can’t chase. I am glad that there are a number of chasers who have set them up at their own expense and hassle. No one is being forced to watch chase live-cams. Like anything else on the web, if you don't like it, don't look at it.
Bill Hark
Mark Sefried
EF2
In this case with the two chasers getting hit, it was a complete accident as the OAX radar went down, poor road network, and a rain wrapped tornado. They were not trying to catch a rain wrapped tornado on thier webcam as I mistakenly thought. However, it would not surprise me that sometime in the future that someone will get hit and possibly killed because they are trying to get the moneyshot on their livecam.
D. Hayes
Why does it take a live cam? You might as well throw in camcorders and cameras all together. If we get a cool photo or video we share it just the same. I don't think a live cam would make me any more daring. heck if thought my mother was watching or my kids watching I'd be safer just to keep them from worrying.
Gary Stofer
EF1
I hope those that were too close came out unscathed. When I see the spotter icons clearly punching some of these storms I am amazed at some of the punishment some chasers and spotters put themselves in, not referring to anyone in particular of course. You guys have bigger balls than I, I'll give you credit.
There is one thing we should all keep in mind when chasing. Never, ever rely on the radar alone for your personal safety. Two nights ago KIND was lagging and I kept saying to my chase partner the cell appeared to be much closer than what radar was indicating. Our data was active, GR3 indicated it was "caught up", everything was running perfectly. Yet the lightning was suddenly within a couple of miles or less, and it had started raining. I decided then it was time to move, and about that time our radar had updated not once but twice in a minute, and the cell was indeed on top of us. Just when you need it most, it seems to fail at the worst times.
There is one thing we should all keep in mind when chasing. Never, ever rely on the radar alone for your personal safety. Two nights ago KIND was lagging and I kept saying to my chase partner the cell appeared to be much closer than what radar was indicating. Our data was active, GR3 indicated it was "caught up", everything was running perfectly. Yet the lightning was suddenly within a couple of miles or less, and it had started raining. I decided then it was time to move, and about that time our radar had updated not once but twice in a minute, and the cell was indeed on top of us. Just when you need it most, it seems to fail at the worst times.
jeremy wilson
Dear God! Why don't we start a forum thats titled "pissing and moaning". Dosen't everyone get sick of the new ways and topics people come up with to complain?
M Potter
Thank You I stream when I am chasing for 3 reasons 1st is for my wife and kids to see that I am ok and what I'm seeing.2nd is for the NWS to use for decision making and for local EM to use for activation and 3rd for Jon Q Public and other chasers to see. That is no different than still shots or video so if you are going to gripe about this get the pics off your website. Lets talk about this instead of the 4 boyscouts who lost there lives and 20 to 40 who were injured.
Chris Novy
EF0
The pros and cons of streaming video is a valid topic for discussion. The boy scouts and whose decision it was to leave them in the path of a tornado is also a valid topic but for a different thread.
I have been chasing for more than 25 years --before Twister, before the Internet, before camcorders and DVDs. I have seen the hobby grow from fewer than one hundred chasers to perhaps more than 3000 today. In 1985 when PBS Nova came out with Tornado we're were in awe. The same program today, however, might garner yawns from the new generation of chasers --raised on MTV and "Xtreme everything".
We've gone from a time when one waited three days to get their photos or slides back to a time when thousands of people can be viewing your actions in real-time. We have also see communications technology develop from simple BBS text-based forums to sophisticated streaming sites. With this change we have gone from discussing things in private forums, often days after the event, to being able to follow along with fellow chasers --vicariously experiencing the thrill from the comfort and safety of our homes and offices.
We have all seen stories on TV about people, mainly kids, posting videos on YouTube of themselves attacking others (students, teachers, homeless people) and performing dangerous and/or illegal acts for the sole purpose of gaining attention or creating a "bad ass" alter-ego to compensate for their otherwise pathetic and boring lives. For every video posted 10 other people try to top it --just like school shooters. Their actions may eventually gain them instantaneous fame and national media coverage.
While I certainly don't imply that storm chasers are the meteorological equivalent of the Columbine shooters (though many I've met do have DEEP psychological problems) there are many chasers motivated by the need to achieve fame or quickly increase their status within the chasing community by becoming the new "most out of control son of a b*tch in the game". In the old days you would see a lot of distant tornado footage because most of us had sense enough not to get too close. As chaser videos began to circulate and storm chasing conventions became popular the degree of risk people were willing to take to achieve "spectacular" footage rapidly increased. Whether it was an ego thing or simply people thinking to themselves "if he got that close I can certainly get even closer" the risks are increasing.
Live streaming storm chaser video is quickly going from being just an experiment in technology --seen only by a handful of people-- to potentially a profitable means of newsgathering and certainly a useful way to send back real-time images to assist (whether deliberately or coincidentally) in the warning decision process. Now that the broadcast media is becoming familiar with live streaming and "citizen journalists" or bloggers (the buzzwords for unpaid, untrained, unvetted reporters) it's not uncommon to see them "drop in" on a chaser's live stream. I'm sure there are plans in the works at SevereStudios to develop permanent licensing agreements with the broadcast media. Technology like this rarely stays experimental for long. Just as BNVN sprouted up to fill the vacuum created by TWC's need for fresh video and CONUS's demise live chaser streaming may become another commercial entity. With the potential for national exposure more chasers will be willing to take greater risks to ensure their stream (perhaps one of dozens on the same storm) will be the one "picked up" by the broadcast media. Getting the most views means your name will become well known (like the local OKC media chasers whom some wrongly mistake for gods) and invite TV interviews, speaking engagements, and movie deals.
For some of us streaming video is just about having fun and sharing video. I plan on doing it myself later this year. For others it's something more. Take a quick look at the names of folks showing up on SpotterNetwork. Some, like myself, are just names and perhaps a ham radio call sign. Others, however, have fancy weather-related web sites or nicknames --choosing not to identify themselves as individuals but rather as their Internet persona. Then match what you see on the screen with what you often see in the field --vehicles adorned with custom graphics and bristling with sophisticated-looking equipment (whether operational or not). These folks are like peacocks strutting their stuff. I don't know how representative SpotterNetwork is compared to what's actually happening out there but it does raise some interesting questions about motivations, actions, competency and such.
While Wednesday's streaming close encounter may have been an accident I have no doubts that others, in an attempt to gain fame and fortune or simply being egged on by an invisible audience, will take unnecessary risks and ultimately pay for it with their lives. Mark's comments are valid and I am sure we will be discussing this issue again. Personally, I welcome the technology. It may help accelerate legislation designed to curb what is quickly becoming a serious problem --chaser hordes and reckless behavior.
..Chris..
Shane Adams
This is another issue....blaming "lack of data" for getting into trouble. Look out a window once in a while, and you won't need data. Anyone with any experience should know that HP-rainy situations are probable before the storms even fire. You don't need to see a tornado to realize there's a wrapped circulation.
Shane Adams
I'm all for the use of live stream for assisting the NWS and/or personal entertainment. I'm well-aware how much live streaming has helped the NWS issue warnings (or not).
Funny this topic should come up, I just blogged about it last night.
Matthew Crowther
EF3
BINGO! I am firmly convinced that the reason more chasers are getting in close scrapes in recent years is because the in-car radars have led us as a group to believe that we can do things that most folks never would have dreamed of attempting in the primitive early-mid 90s when you had to rely completely on your eyeballs. I still nearly always use my view of the storm out the window to make the final determination as to driving decisions during a chase, the radar is never completely to be trusted.
Darren Addy
EF5
That is one of the best, most well thought-out comments I've ever read on Stormtrack and is especially validated by your history/experience. Thanks for sharing it. That comment should be a Sticky or something.
George Grant
EF1
That's a cop-out. By that logic, if two humans are copulating in the street, that's ok. Just don't look at it. Last time I checked, we don't live in an "anything goes" society.
Sooner or later, some nitwit control-freak will want to determine for the rest of us that some or all aspects of storm chasing should be illegal. The hypocritical, communal, extremist types have already assaulted some of our basic, constitutional rights.
The point being: I would be thanking whatever higher power works for you. Like I did west of Aurora, NE on May 29 when I was taking 100mph winds--straight-line or not. I would think I'd be a little more humble. I certainly wouldn't be talking live to Jim Flowers and every other broadcast journalist about the situation and starting off the live report with "Severestudios.com."
Do we really need a "Michael Newdow" in storm chasing?...
Geo
Adam Lucio
EF5
This comment is NOT meant to offend anyones streaming video.
From the few streams I have watched, the footage is usually grainy and skips allot and I end up getting annoyed after a few minutes and turning it off. Maybe its just my PC being crappy I dont know...but if that is the nature of the technology [as i imagine it would be given the fact mobile internet isnt perfect] then I would highly doubt a chaser would want their "money shot" to be on a grainy camera that skips frames and has no audio.
The streaming for more accurate reporting is a fantastic idea and I support it 100 percent, it certainly is better to be able to actually see what is going on. These days it seems security and tower cams are doing a swell job at capturing things as well.
Although I do agree one shouldnt always rely on the data, even the best data has a time lag. One should always be fully alert to the storm and what they actually see. Remember the radars just offer clues, they never say what exactly is going on....Ive seen amazing hook echoes end up not having tornadoes...and storms that look like mush on radar end up producing.
All that said, Im glad theyre ok....a chaser shouldn't be crucified for an unfortunate accident...its a risk of the game...it has been from day 1 and always will be despite our best knowledge and experience.
As for me I don't plan to stream anytime soon but someday I will. I'm not too knowledgable on what exactly is involved in that process, and I have other things I want to upgrade first.
From the few streams I have watched, the footage is usually grainy and skips allot and I end up getting annoyed after a few minutes and turning it off. Maybe its just my PC being crappy I dont know...but if that is the nature of the technology [as i imagine it would be given the fact mobile internet isnt perfect] then I would highly doubt a chaser would want their "money shot" to be on a grainy camera that skips frames and has no audio.
The streaming for more accurate reporting is a fantastic idea and I support it 100 percent, it certainly is better to be able to actually see what is going on. These days it seems security and tower cams are doing a swell job at capturing things as well.
Although I do agree one shouldnt always rely on the data, even the best data has a time lag. One should always be fully alert to the storm and what they actually see. Remember the radars just offer clues, they never say what exactly is going on....Ive seen amazing hook echoes end up not having tornadoes...and storms that look like mush on radar end up producing.
All that said, Im glad theyre ok....a chaser shouldn't be crucified for an unfortunate accident...its a risk of the game...it has been from day 1 and always will be despite our best knowledge and experience.
As for me I don't plan to stream anytime soon but someday I will. I'm not too knowledgable on what exactly is involved in that process, and I have other things I want to upgrade first.
Mike Peregrine
EF5
After last night, I'm considering shutting the radar off after initiation every single time from now on. We didn't have data at all last night. I really have to give credit to Brian, who was reading the storm like a book, even in the middle of the night. Those radar images get old without alerting a person CONSTANTLY. It causes us to make weird decisions that we wouldn't otherwise make. I'm just sure of it now more than ever before. I really believe that once the intercept is made, the radar needs to get shut down, if it is even used at all ... ever! It forces you to think your way through the situation when you are without it -
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