Drew.Gardonia
Where could one find archived radar data that will show specific streets to locate exactly where a storm has produced a hail core and the precise path of where the hail hit?
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rdale
EF5
GRLevel2, 3, and AE all allow for street display.
I'm not sure what you mean about hail core. That's not something with a big flashing sign that says "Hail is falling here." If we could do that... well... maybe with dual-pol but not now.
You'll need to interpret the radar and compare that to storm reports, and tweak those based on time and location since they are usually off in one or both of those categories.
I'm not sure what you mean about hail core. That's not something with a big flashing sign that says "Hail is falling here." If we could do that... well... maybe with dual-pol but not now.
You'll need to interpret the radar and compare that to storm reports, and tweak those based on time and location since they are usually off in one or both of those categories.
David Dildine
EF1
If need a comprehensive report down to street-level, there is: http://www.hailwatch.com/index.html
rdale
EF5
That's just an interpretation of radar data - not all of it is ground truth, and that's what he is looking for. Not sure what they charge for historical data, but you'd be better off getting AE and using the free data sources.
David Dildine
EF1
Yeah he's right Andrew. Detecting the precise contours of a hail streak from severe storms takes the hand of a trained met. Level II data is a crucial start though. Just because a storm has high VILs and/or high reflectivity doesn't mean it's producing hail. Determining where that hail is actually hitting the surface is another challenge in itself. Sometimes the largest hail from a storm can be displaced from the highest echoes by miles.
rdale
EF5
Counting the days until DP fixes that issue for us 
GR2AE = the Analyst Edition, which has an advanced algorithm for using RUC temps, individual storm motion and the latest equations available to estimate hail size and plot it as a graphic instead of just numeric output.
GR2AE = the Analyst Edition, which has an advanced algorithm for using RUC temps, individual storm motion and the latest equations available to estimate hail size and plot it as a graphic instead of just numeric output.
Greg Stumpf
EF5
Which is the NSSL gridded HDA available at several locations, such as http://ondemand.nssl.noaa.gov. Note that if you are a dot-com looking to profit from the data, you'll need to seek out a company that offers the service. The above web site is for education, research, and NWS verification only.
Mike Smith
Speaking of D-P radar, the ICT AMS chapter's next meeting is on that subject (ICT will be the first NWS operational D-P site next year). It is at the Petroleum Club, 9th floor, 100 N. Broadway (BoA Building), at noon on Tuesday November 10th. There will be a buffet lunch for $7.
All are welcome!
All are welcome!
rdale
EF5
I've made many requests over the summer (two just now to doublecheck) and have never gotten a thing back... What's the trick?
Kiel Ortega
EF4
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2004
- Messages
- 325
Detection of surface hail fall is extremely difficult. There's a lot of overlap between reflectivity values and algorithm output for storms producing hail and storms producing no hail; storms producing hail and storms producing severe hail; and then storms producing severe hail and storms producing significant-severe hail. Telling the difference is a crap shoot. I've been comparing reports from SHAVE with the NSSL gridded max hail size (MESH) and what I just described is what I've found. To get information about the street-by-street hail fall, you basically have to do something similar to SHAVE and collect actual observations of hail street by street. Don't even bother trying use Storm Data reports to try and get an idea. They don't have the spatial resolution or accuracy (both spatially and hail size) for street-by-street analysis nor as a correction to radar data/algorithms.
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**COMMERCIAL: watch for our article on SHAVE in October's BAMS**
Brian Stertz
EF5
I think that hail swaths are not represented too well in radar data...particularly in the High Plains where jumbo hail with LP supercells have just a small return at times. I can remember several instances where radar hail indicators showed 2" hail where 4" + hail was falling. I have kind of given up hopes of ever traking down the meanest of the meanest hailcore based on radar data. The Aurora NE monster hail was a good case of this. Widespread 5"+ hailbombs were falling in areas where pretty minor refl. returns were indicated. I remember that day very well.
rdale
EF5
You sure radar missed Aurora? SPC has an article about it and the 88D output (even back then) had 2.5" hail indicated... It'd be interesting to run that back through AE and seeing how it'd work with some RUC temps.
Greg Stumpf
EF5
Worked for me just the other day.
Are you coming in from a .com address? Have you been whitelisted?
rdale
EF5
.org and I've been registered. I dropped a note to your IT contact.
The website acknowledges my submission, says it's processing and that I'll get a email now and when it's ready - but I've never had an email come for either the ack or the end result.
The website acknowledges my submission, says it's processing and that I'll get a email now and when it's ready - but I've never had an email come for either the ack or the end result.
Brian Stertz
EF5
Not so sure that radar completely missed it, but in the areas where the hail boulders were coming down....the bref were not off the charts as one might expect. What was truly amazing was you had that prolific monster hailer and the Deshler monster supercell about 40 miles south...and another strong tornadic supercell organizing in NE Nebraska.
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