"Veteran takes storm chasers to task at ChaserCon for reckless behavior"

[Jeff Hawkins]

For anyone at Chasercon this year, Dr. Chuck Doswell gave a presentation titled "Chasing's End of Innocence" (the article says he called it 'holding up a mirror'...the title I have quoted is taken from the Chasercon agenda page). Apparently Stan Finger, a journalist for the Wichita Eagle was either there, or viewed the live stream, and posted an article critical of storm chasers and portraying Dr. Doswell as attacking chasers for "reckless behavior". What are your thoughts about Stan's article?

Here is the link to the original article: http://www.kansas.com/2014/02/15/3292178/veteran-takes-storm-chasers-to.html

Here is the link to Dr. Doswell's presentation at Chasercon 2014 (may have been pulled by Severe Studios already) watch 2:47:30-3:39:25 . : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzb-AIDCGC4

 

[Skip Talbot]

Sorry about the edit, but I think the forum could run into some copyright snags if the full text from articles is copied and pasted here.

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

Sorry about the edit, but I think the forum could run into some copyright snags if the full text from articles is copied and pasted here.

Hey Skip,
Thanks for keeping things straight. No worries. I posted it without thinking. The links to the article and the presentation are there for people to read/view from the sources if they wish.

 

[James Gustina]

I agreed with most of the points put forward in the actual presentation (don't care how people chase though, that's their decision). That article definitely has an "outsider" feel of someone who didn't quite understand the full message behind the presentation because he's on the outside looking in though. Some of the comments on the article smack of ignorance, considering people seem to believe that such a thing as a "professional storm chaser" is commonplace and the problem is the vast majority of recreational chasers out there. The article also tries to make it seem like Doswell was ripping chasers, but at the start he's quoted as saying even he isn't above it all.

All in all, it's a poorly written article that missed the main point of the presentation: Don't forget how dangerous chasing is and don't become complacent.

 

[Matt Hunt]

I don't like the first sentence. People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions instead of always pointing the finger elsewhere. Other than that, I see no problem with it. This "controversy" will go on forever.

 

[Adam Lucio]

A topic that never dies, and while overall I agreed with most of what Mr Chuck says, Im of a different mindsent these days and simply just dont care.

Telling storm chasers to chase a certain way so theyre not perceived as reckless is about as useful as telling teenagers not to have sex because they can get an STD.

 

[Stan Rose]

A topic that never dies, and while overall I agreed with most of what Mr Chuck says, Im of a different mindsent these days and simply just dont care.

Telling storm chasers to chase a certain way so theyre not perceived as reckless is about as useful as telling teenagers not to have sex because they can get an STD.

Well, to be fair the correct analogy would then be to tell chasers not to chase. Or to tell teenagers to have safe sex. Might work in a few cases if delivered by people the udience respects. Worth a shot.
But I agree, we aint turning back the clock. I'll just avoid the scenes whenever possible.

 

[Warren Faidley]

A topic that never dies, and while overall I agreed with most of what Mr Chuck says, Im of a different mindsent these days and simply just dont care.

Telling storm chasers to chase a certain way so theyre not perceived as reckless is about as useful as telling teenagers not to have sex because they can get an STD.

Very good point. Who cares. Time to move on.

I do give Chuck Doswell a lot of credit for standing up for what he believes and defending chase ethics. I guess most chasers have not been around long enough to remember how it once was and how the chase community was policed. When I become involved in the business end of chasing, I took hell any time I misbehaved and sometimes I deserved the criticism. Now days it's a free for all and very few chasers (and media) have the %$&&'s to criticize the absolute stupidity and misleading BS occurring now days. If I did even a faction of what some chasers are doing today, I would have been hung from a windmill.

There was a brief period 6-7 years ago when the onslaught of stupidity could have been either exposed, altered or delayed -- but the once critical veterans just stood aside and gave Circus Chaseimus Destructus a free pass. Then again, the evolution of chasing was likely doomed either way. I'm glad I have a few good friends from my 30 years of chasing, but for those who let chasing go down the toilet without a complaint or whimper -- shame on you.

As for the media story, I think it's very important to separate what happened to Tim and his crew from the idiotic behavior. Tim was a professional and had a legitimate scientific history. What happened to Tim could have happened to any of us and many chasers were in some form of danger that day, including my own group. What is really disrespectful are the chasers who are now boasting about the El Reno event like it was some badge of honor to have been so close to getting killed. ARE YOU ^&%$(&% SERIOUS? I was slammed when I blogged about this on June 1, 2013, predicting this would happen.

Warren

 

[Shane Adams]

Honestly, I only skimmed the article because I knew it was from a person associated with the state of Kansas, which has had a bug up its ass regarding chasers for nearly a decade now. I don't know if it's the same person, but there have been several negative Wichita Eagle articles on chasers. From what I was able to stomach, it looked like he just quoted Doswell for half the content. As mentioned before, it wreaks of the same outsider point-of-view as all muggle-written pieces do.

My philosophy is kind of a mix between Doswell and Lucio. I agree with what Chuck says, and I live by that philosophy. I'm also not shy about calling out something especially dangerous, irresponsible, or just plain lame. I really don't care what anyone else does at the end of the day, but I'm interested enough in the chasing world overall to comment on what I observe. So while I might make comments about something from time to time, I'm not losing sleep over it. Chasing is what it is. In my mind, all that really matters is what chasing is to me.

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful replies, and I appreciate the candor of all members who responded, while I agree with some and don't with others. I put this up as a topic because yes, "it never dies". Should it die? What would be the result of chasers after that point? I knew, attending Chasercon this year, I expected there to be some amount of (given the circumstances) self-examination and criticism about chasing and just how far we push things when we chase. The big theme weaving through all the presentations was one of "judgement" and "safety", and that is something each of us should be thinking of, for our own lives, and the lives of our fellow-chasers, and the public. But why does the topic of 'chasers being reckless' continue to plague us? And even moreso, why do some express fatigue and a "who cares" mentality when it's mentioned nowadays? I am not going to judge such thoughts here. But I just want to encourage all chasers to not grow weary of preaching safety even if those who hear it may disregard it. That is on them. But it's up to all of us with more experience to exhort and pass on the message of safety first. IMHO. That's one way we as chasers can shift the media perception of us from one of "reckless" to one of "responsible".

 

[Jeff Duda]

Seems like the behavior is getting worse partly because most chasers condone the practices of those who are drawing the most negative attention to the chasing community. I'm as much at fault as anyone else. I believe that if people (read, chasers) stood up for doing the right thing before, during, and after the chase by saying something when they see something, the behavior will be diminished.

Specific things I have seen and neglected to harp on others about while chasing (for various reasons) include (but are not limited to):
-people not getting all the way off the road when stopping
-people standing in the road while watching or shooting video/pictures (when a car is coming)
-endorsing video shot by those engaging in particularly risky behavior by viewing, liking, and sharing those videos on YouTube or Facebook (or here)
-accepting offers to appear on TV because they captured extremely close-up and dangerous footage

Seems logical to me that if we stop rewarding these behaviors and say something to those doing these things that they will stop happening as often.

Maybe I'm just being naive and optimistic.

 

[Warren Faidley]

The bottom line is that getting dangerously close (with the exception of "real" scientists) equals money, PR, sponsors and limelight and some chasers are willing to take those risks. I had to make the decision years ago to either change my chasing style to match those who were getting all the publicity and big bucks, or stay true to the reasons I love to chase, which have not really changed over 30 years. I also value my life and no storm is worth it.

The problem with dangerous chasing is that someone is always going to up the ante and you better be ready to match or exceed the bet. I call this the "gunfighter" complex. These chasers will eventually die while chasing as they have no choice but keep pushing the limits to stay in business and "one-up" the competition. The number of close calls cannot be ignored and are a good indication of things to come.

Warren

 

[Stan Rose]

...
The problem with dangerous chasing is that someone is always going to up the ante and you better be ready to match or exceed the bet. I call this the "gunfighter" complex. These chasers will eventually die while chasing as they have no choice but keep pushing the limits to stay in business and "one-up" the competition. The number of close calls cannot be ignored and are a good indication of things to come.

I agree, but is there really no limit? Doesn't oversaturation eventually set in, where there's really no more room to 'up the ante'? I think the more people drive through tornadoes or whatever, the less interest it will gather, just as in photography, shots that were considered super impressive 20 years ago now are barely given a second look. So how do you up the ante of driving through an EF-5? There's not likely to be an EF-6 any time soon, so what do you do, ride through one on a bicycle with a gopro attached to your head? Is the footage from that really gonna garner any more attention? I don't know--they're rhetorical questions, but I like to think maybe the trends will reverse once people get sick of seeing videos of debris bombarding the camera (assuming they do tire of it...)

 

[Rob H]

I think Chuck had a really good point that not many people have talked about. Chris Novy is kind of demonized within the chasing realm. Heck, I used to make fun of Chris Novy and revel in the hypocrisy when he'd do something dangerous. All he does is whine and act like chaser police, why does he care so much about what other people do, he should worry more about his own safety and stop being a hypocrite right?

How did this come about? Bear with me for this next paragraph, just take it in without judging me too much and I'll explain: For me it's always revolved around the "how close is too close" argument. I really hate that argument because I think it's subjective, and in most cases, being close to a tornado still isn't as dangerous as getting bonked in the head with softball hail, lightning, hydroplaning, drunk drivers, etc. I've seen almost 50 tornadoes, and how many of those were *likely* to have actually flipped my car and seriously hurt me? 4? 5? On those days I saw the 4-5 "beefy" tornadoes I was a lot more careful because I knew the atmosphere had the potential to do something surprising and deadly (I've often wondered why people didn't give El Reno, an HP storm with EHI pegged and extreme instability, a wider berth). I maintain a huge amount of respect for the storm and it's offensive to me when people suggest I'm being reckless. Ask my chase partner how thorough I am in my decisions and how stressed I am during a chase - because I treat it like a second job with life or death consequences. And really, unless my car gets picked up and thrown into another car, getting close doesn't endanger anyone else besides yourself.

A lot of chasers are the same way, so we get defensive when people criticize our chasing behavior. We're already on edge. And then you see something that is clearly bulls**t. Chris Novy isn't the horrible person, we've been talking smack about him for no good reason.

I was watching a live stream several years ago, and saw someone pass moving cars on the shoulder on a freeway to try and intercept a tornado. This person will remain nameless, but I will say that their social media presence allows for potentially thousands or tens of thousands of people to follow their exploits - most everyone here would recognize the name. I got called out for being chaser police, and telling someone how to chase. Getting to a tornado and getting "the shot" doesn't give you carte blanche in doing illegal behaviors, endangering others, and just being an a**hole in general. This person wasn't criticized by anyone else, and was actually praised by their media broker and adoring fans. No one thought anything of the behavior because they got the shot.

Every time we make a blog post, or a post on ST, or put a video on Youtube, or share a picture, a new generation of chasers is absorbing that. I first became interested in chasing in the 2000s, had never seen Twister, and my expectations were based on PBS/Nova documentaries. Chuck Doswell has said that he hasn't an idol, but he was to me! When extreme chasing took off, the old timers didn't condone it and so they retreated into CDFG and other places. That didn't slow down the growth of chasing, it just took away any positive influence those old timers had.

I don't know the answer, but I think I know the direction that I'm comfortable going. For now, I've pulled most of my videos off YouTube. I've started removing the chase groupies from my friend's list on Facebook. I'm not friends with you, you saw me on Fox News and wanted to see what extreme things I would post. I'm seriously considering making any of the weather software that I'm working on private or limited to a few friends. I'm going to make chasing seem as boring as possible because that's what it is 99.99% of the time. I'm really proud of what Storm Assist has done and its been a pleasure being involved with it from the start, but it's not enough for me. I want to teach kids the difference between a watch and a warning, I want to make more people buy weather radios, if I inspire anyone I want it to be like the way I was inspired as a child - no driving on the shoulder, no getting hit with debris, no swearing on the camera.

I'm going to stick around, and if I see someone passing on the shoulder or parking in the street endangering other people, I'm going to call them out on it. I don't care if you think I'm infringing on your rights to chase with freedom. I'm not sure how I feel about the glamorization of chasing with the chase team pages and the gaudy decals and attention whoring. Chasing isn't glamorous, and having 100,000 mouth-breathing fans on Facebook sounds like more of a chore than anything. It's sending the wrong message, but is it actively causing problems? I'm not sure. I think it's ridiculous, but I'm not ready to wage war against it like some people.

That's a long rant, but some of this stuff has been bugging me for a long time. Sorry for the brain dump

 

[Rick Schmidt]

This is a great discussion.......getting chasers to bring up valid points about why we do this amazing hobby that risks our lives. But I agree with Warren, that we should not lose sight of the real reason most of us chase storms.....because we love to WATCH mother nature perform. One of my chaser friends that I have known for 23 years has only recently started using video to document the tornadoes he has seen. And, he has seen almost as many as Tim Marshall. And since the El Reno event last May, my friend has changed his outlook on how close he will get to a tornado. I, however never go anywhere without a camera of some kind. But I was brought up in a photography-minded family.