Very interesting developing tornado???

[Adam Wolff]

Great depiction in the video. This is what I think was going on to a Tee. This is probably the best clear cut example of what is going on in the picture posted. The air at the sfc must have been a bit too stable to produce, but it was close. Thanks for the video.

I agree. Greg's caption is a very good description of what occurred in my video and more than likely was occurring in the image posted. I would estimate the meso was titled about 45 degrees as you can see halfway through the video I am pointing right into the rotation as if it was directly above me in a-typical supercell low level meso.

 

[Lanny Dean]

Neddy Eddy!

Only in humor and no offense intended I want to nickname Lanny: Neddy Eddy!

No offense taken...actually pretty funny, especially considering everything going on. Nice to hear/see a little bit of humor and you have got to know what I mean.

I will gladly take the "name".....most particularly if eases the tension!

 

[Joshua Nall]

This explanation makes the most sense to me. It doesn't appear to be a "Neddy Eddy". This is a case of horizontal vorticity not quite tilted into the vertical. In this pic there was only marginal low level shear and rather high Td spreads, say 15 degree spreads. The RFD gust front is clearly visible to the right in this pic, so not much debating that. This is a clear cut Skelaton of a supercell updraft that had either stable air at the sfc, or the inflow was outweighed by the RFD. It is clear however that there is an RFD gust front. Thanks for all the responses. It did make for a very interesting pic. Kudos to Phil and Annette from Art Beats for grabbing this awesome photo.

So where are we seeing the RFD gust front in the photo? I'm having a hard time with it. I always have a hard time coming to a definite conclusion though when it comes to analyzing a single photo. Maybe there is no RFD associated with the little whirl pictured. Maybe the clouds on the right are just some convection not really associated with the whirl. I've seen too many messy supercells I guess. It could be the "skeleton of a supercell" I suppose, but I'd figure it would look much more significant if that was the case. Looks more like a little whirl on the back side of a cell, not really associated with the main meso, which could be way on further into the photo... on the other side of this. I have to admit, I'm not following a lot of the reasoning in this thread. I could be wrong. Is anyone else having problems?

 

[Matt Gingery]

So where are we seeing the RFD gust front in the photo? I'm having a hard time with it. ?

Yes, in fact you are. The circulation is at the occlusion point. In fact there is a video of this in time lapse that was just posted to face book that shows the RFD punch in. BTW. The right side of the picture is the RFD gust front. I hope this answers your question and helps bring some relevance to the thread. Like I had mentioned before Joshua, Wilkepedia has a world of information and maybe this link will help you understand supercell structure a bit better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercell I hope it helps out, and good luck

BTW. I did look at your pics that you had posted. IMO, they represent nothing other than updraft turbulence. I see it all the time and it isn't what is represented in the photo, IMO. Correct me if I am wrong please.

 

[Joshua Nall]

I said I could be wrong.

"The circulation is at the occlusion point" Ok....and video makes this undeniably clear?

All I had to go off of is the picture, don't know nothing about facebook, not one of the millions on it. I was wondering what Lanny was talking about "everything else going on" and "tension" as I didn't see much tension in this thread. It's possible that I may be the least experienced contributing to this thread..... but I know what an rfd cut is. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people know less than they think they know, including me, concerning all that's going on in supercell storms. The picture I posted was updraft turbulence, I don't have a problem calling it that, or an eddy, if that would be allowable, I even mentioned that it probably wasn't as substantial as what's being discussed, in my post.

Just going off the picture though, it doesn't look much different than Aaron's second photo. I'm wondering if turbulence or eddies on the backside of updrafts sometimes don't get wound up like this and pull in a bit of clear air that wraps in, which is why the circulation is visible in the first place... This does happen right? And it's not related to a rfd is it? And it could look like an rfd cut. I think some folks have a too rigid view in their mind as to what a supercell looks like. Sometimes there's lots of stuff going on... not just a single meso with an rfd cutting in. There's lots of turbulence, eddies or what ever behind it sometimes, on the outer edges of the meso, even producing satellites? What would the circulation look like on a meso that would be the precursor to a satellite? maybe something like the original photo? I guess it would be on a smaller scale than that even? I'm just asking, I don't know. I was fortunate enough to witness the two small rope tornadoes near Roll, Ok last year before the big one. I believe you could call these satillites, they were not on the inside of any obvious rfd. looked to be swinging around the side of the updraft. If it were possible to remove all the messy clouds around those to small tornadoes... what would the actual circulation associated with those tornadoes look like? I'm just wondering.

 

[Matt Gingery]

I said I could be wrong.

"The circulation is at the occlusion point" Ok....and video makes this undeniably clear?

All I had to go off of is the picture, don't know nothing about facebook, not one of the millions on it. I was wondering what Lanny was talking about "everything else going on" and "tension" as I didn't see much tension in this thread. It's possible that I may be the least experienced contributing to this thread..... but I know what an rfd cut is. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people know less than they think they know, including me, concerning all that's going on in supercell storms. The picture I posted was updraft turbulence, I don't have a problem calling it that, or an eddy, if that would be allowable, I even mentioned that it probably wasn't as substantial as what's being discussed, in my post.
.

The only thing I brought to attention was the fact that you questioned the relevance of this thread being on here. This is a very interesting photo and it is a depiction of the RFD gust front pushing out and exposing that the skeleton exists behind all front. With the RFD punching in to the now exposed updraft skeleton that is actually rotating horizontally, this spin up is actually an attempt at producing a tornado, IMO. I feel the stable SFC air and higher than normal LCL's had a role to play into it. Others feel that the RFD outweighed the weaker inflow. To answer the first sort of question you had. Lanny and I chased together this year and we say things from time to time. Disregard it as tension and think of it as two guys just having fun. I definately never questioned your experience and I will direct the more experienced members to answer the questions in your post above, because they are very valid points. Thanks for participating in the thread bro!


FYI: If you had read from the beginning you would have seen this video depiction that shows to a Tee what is goin on in the photo, IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8jOkdzzcA

 

[J Trueblood]

I actually had something extremely similar happen to me on a chase this year. I have never seen a tornado so defining this was very challenging for me. The storm at the time of this image was tornado warned and we were in correct position to see a tornado. This strange appendage started rotating more horizontal at first and slowly starting to straight out vertically. If you've ever seen the video of the Goshen WY tornado from last year as it is roping out, that is what this looked like in motion. I don't know if it was a funnel or what, just like Matt. Any ideas?
Like Matt's scenario, there was meager low level shear but a large amount of mid-level shear.