Tornadoes and Electricity, continued

T. Mosley

EF0
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
33
Location
Houston, TX
Elsewhere in here I have mentioned links between tornadic storms and unusual electrical activity. Now let me go way back.

When I was in high school, about 1968 or 1969, I remember a magazine article titled "Is Electricity the Driving Force Behind Tornadoes?" At this time I was seriously thinking of becoming a meteorologist (I had it bad even back then) and I was fascinated by this article. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of the magazine in which it appeared, and a lengthy search of the internet has thus far revealed nothing. It sounds as if it was a Scientific American article, but I think it must have been Popular Science or something equivalent. I have not yet been to a big city library to perform a search, but that may be coming.

The article centered around a remarkable photograph, once which I am determined to find again. As I recall, it was taken in suburban Illinois, in a typical subdivision, from someone's back yard. Fences, swingsets, and kid's toys are in evidence. The day is very cloudy, although it is more of a heavy overcast locally. The photographer is aiming south, above the horizon at the gray mass, embedded in which can clearly be discerned what appear to be two very large searchlight beams. These were a good deal broader than authentic searchlight beams would be, but otherwise, one would naturally assume that that is what they were. Until one learned that at that exact moment, in the exact location from which these 'beams' appeared to be emanating, twin-funneled tornadoes were on the ground.

The gist of the article was that the 'beams' seen were due to a manifestation of some electrical display, a "glow" as it were, the nature of which was and presumably is, unknown. The funnels themselves could not be seen from the location at which this photograph was taken, and so it was presumed that this phenomenon extended far up into the mesocyclone and parent thunderstorm. There was no word as I recall as to the funnels themselves "glowing".

SO, my question to you as chasers, people who see more tornadoes in a year than meteorologists do in a career, is simply - has anyone ever observed such a thing? Maybe this is a frequent occurrence but is obscured by heavy cloud cover, much as are supernovae, which occur with amazing frequency in the galaxy, obscured by the interstellar dust.

This observation would certainly fit well with the unusual electrical activity observed during many tornadic storms (such as that 1998 Sugar Land F2) and with the theory of that television tornado detector (assuming that can be proven to work). So if anyone has any chase data, and even better, photos, that support such a theory, I would like to hear of it.
 
Tim, you might want to investigate into the Twin funnels that struck Toledo, Ohio on APril 11, 1965 - these twin funnels also were glowing. In fact, there is a well documented photo of these twin funnels available by searching the internet.

It is quite interesting to me that both circumstances involved twin tornadoes. It causes me to wonder if interaction between two funnels causes a unique electrical "charge" or imbalance" which might explain the unusual glow. Food for thought.
 
Hard to say that the tornadoes were "glowing" -- http://homepages.wmich.edu/~b1naftel/Toledo_Tornado.gif

As we all know, historical descriptions of tornadoes often differ from reality... I can't imagine what would cause a tornado to shoot beams of light that are visible in the distance, on an overcast day, and how those beams could be correlated precisely to the location of tornadoes. That part makes no sense.
 
Palm Sunday was a daytime event, so it would be hard for anyone to see a glow. There are no lightning discharges nor static contained within tornadoes. Power flashes (when tornadoes strike power lines) can sometimes emit beams of light when the light is partially blocked by objects such as tree limbs.

Lightning is not connected to tornado formation, nor is one driven by the other. A supercell does have unique lightning patterns (IE, 'anvil zits') but they are present irrespective on whether a tornado is on the ground or not, or even if the storm never produces a tornado.

It sure would be nice if tornadoes glowed at night (for spotting and photography), but unfortunately they are only partially illuminated by lightning or power flashes.
 
"Palm Sunday was a daytime event"

Toledo was around 9:30pm, and in early April (before DST) that would put it at night...
 
I've never noticed any glowing tornadoes. If there's been anything to note, it's the opposite, in a way. Seems there's been some kind of tend for lightning activity to drop off right at tornadogenisis in some storms. That one interests me, as the one I saw May 16, 2004 was like a switch was thrown on this continously rumbling supercell, to ziltch at tornadogenisis.
 
May 16, 2004: I was also on that storm and I do remember the bass shutting down during tornado formation.

The most notable case for me would be back on September 12th, 2001; Decatur, TX Tornadoes. To this very day I've yet to see anything close to the stobe-light cloud-to-ground action in the vault, which was going on with that supercell immediately before tornado formation. I actually had to shut my eyes for about 20-30 seconds to fight off the on coming migrane! But as a tornado developed the 'switch' was turned off for at least 2 minutes before I saw another CG!
 
I once ran into a guy who claimed he was building an "electromagnetic device" to deflect tornadoes from cities. I did, and still do, consider him a bit loony.

He also faked screen shots of "weather software" he was supposedly creating, and now he claims to predict earthquakes.

His website is here:
http://ontarioweatherservice.com/ows.html

And yes, he did photoshop his own picture.
 
On the flip side, didn't the lightning dramatically increase during tornado genesis on the June 12th, 2004 Mulvane, Kansas, tornado? I know I have heard for years and years the discussion and debate whether lightning drives tornadoes, or the heat given off from lightning helps fuel the updraft or what have you. I always thought the increase in lightning meant the strengthening of the storms parent updraft, which produces more particles interaction which causes more + and - charges. Another myth I always heard was that inside the tornado it is rittled with lightning discharges, but why wouldn't you see it "glowing" as Tim questions?

I have a question for Dan R. "There are no lightning discharges nor static contained within tornadoes." Does this mean like I stated above, that no lightning is found INSIDE the tornado, or does that mean spitting out of the funnel too? I have seen a few times where bolts of lightning have come out of the funnel. Just wondering if you had any thoughts on that? :)

Danny
 
from the data

I have archived data for the past 7 years... I'll have to look that up on Monday...

...but...

From a few conversations I've had with Ron Holle, it seems that there was previously noted "spike" and then "drop" in lightning activity, preceding a tornado.... not a "sure thing" but coincidence worth noting.

I'll have to look that up when I get to the office...
 
This thread interests me because in 2001 when I was chasing the storm system that produced the tornado in Hoisington...I truthfully probably should not have been out after dark with my limited knowledge of storms, tornado genesis, etc...etc... but the thing I remember most about that event was the lightning.....The lightning was ferocious to the North of Hoisington...well before I made it to the town. I had zero communication as I approached Hoisington...(at the time I was not HAM licensed) There was very little to NO lightning anywhere else. Certainly not to my west where the tornado was developing. I literally outran the storm thinking that the system was much further to my north. The only "glowing effect" I saw was from my position on the Northwest side of Hoisington looking back to the Southwest and seeing Huge Powerflashes...and knowing then that I was not in the best place to be at that particular moment in time.

The lightning with that storm was really limited until the tornado touched down and as I watched the night sky from my new position on the South end of downtown Hoisington...the sky lit up like crazy. Incredible electrical storm as the tornado went by and continued Northeast.
 
This topic really interests me, and it is something I definitely want to study and learn about. I was just watching Shane's "Love" dvd from 04 and kept going over the Mulvane storm that during the tornado touchdown, intense CG's were coming down 1 every 20-30 seconds for about 10 mins. This was right at the point of when the tornado first made contact with the ground.

One questionable hypothesis I have come up with, and maybe others have, or maybe I am just that behind on this subject and it is already known........ is when the tornadic/severe cell itself is cycling the decrease of lightning occurs because the updraft collapses/dies out, until the next dominant updraft takes over and produces greater particle friction(rain and hail) thus more positive and negative charges. That could explain why we see abundant violent lightning strikes just before and immediately after tornado genesis.......

On the other hand I have heard somewhere.....I think one of my tornado documentary tapes......that during the strongest tornadoes the updraft collapses and gusts out which could be the source of some of the most powerful RFD's thus leading to the decrease of lightning in and around the updraft/vault area of the supercell storm. That is until the new updraft or cycle sustains itself, and repeats the whole process all over again.....

Again this is my hypothesis, based on limited knowledge about convective systems. I could have hit the nail right on the head, and more probably could be speaking a foreign language to you all. I guess to me it makes sense.

EDIT: I found a video of a mature tornadic supercell updraft just before tornado genesis....if I am not mistaken this was the storm that dropped the fatal tornado in the NW Twin Cities suburb on Sept 16th 2006 http://youtube.com/watch?v=UQ3zqaKzURU
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are many images of cloud-to-ground lightning in the vault region behind the tornado that makes it appear like the bolt is 'coming out' of the tornado. Here is one such example from June 12, 2005 in Texas .

http://stormhighway.com/june122005/wedge18.jpg

In Mulvane 6/12/04, there was a high amount of CG activity during the 'main' tornado, but this storm was also exceptionally electrically active before, during and after the tornado.
 
What about the polarity shift in storms prior to violent tornado formation. I had the chance to meet Tom Skilling the other day and he brought up how many F5 producing supercells undergo a polarity shift from positive to negative at the time of tornado genesis, with the Plainfield tornado being the best example that comes to mind. Has anyone analyzed the Greensburg storm for a similar pattern?

Also, there are some eyewitness accounts of lightning inside the funnel from survivors that had one pass directly overhead or were inside of it. The first event I remember is from the early 20th century by a farmer who claimed a funnel went overhead and lightning was arcing across it. The other was a teenager who was taking shelter from the Hallam F4. She took claimed looking up into the funnel and seeing lightning arc across it.
 
Back
Top