Tornado or not?

[Tony Lyza]

This is from this afternoon before we were hit by 75 MPH winds. As this wall cloud hit my neighborhood, small debris (i.e. beach towels) were yanked straight up into the sky, and I never saw them hit the ground. My question is does this picture show a weak tornado and if so, should I report it to the NWS, who gave me a terrible time and needed a second 75 MPH wind report from my mom (another trained spotter) before making an LSR?
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[Aaron Kennedy]

IMHO, you might as well ask if aliens are in there. No way to tell if there is a weak tornado based off a still image such as that. You didn't happen to take video did ya?

BTW: I don't see much in the way of a funnel. Did you notice any rotation?
Aaron

 

[Tony Lyza]

IMHO, you might as well ask if aliens are in there. No way to tell if there is a weak tornado based off a still image such as that. You didn't happen to take video did ya?

BTW: I don't see much in the way of a funnel. Did you notice any rotation?
Aaron
[/b]

I tried. I found it more important to report what I was seeing to the NWS. Between trying to take a couple pics and trying to explain to the met on duty that I was not only observing rotation off of radar <_< , I didn't get much, if any, useful video.

To answer your "btw," yes, the wall cloud was rotating, though it was not terribly impressive. It was a weak couplet on the velocity image also at that time.


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[Angie Norris]

I don't see anything that would make me think funnel on the stills. "Straight up" motion would definitely indicate a pretty strong updraft/inflow area. Any damage in the area? Did you measure or estimate the winds?
WCMs and mets can be difficult to deal with at times, particularly if you're in an area that's not accustomed to severe weather (trust me...I know that from personal experience).
Angie

 

[Tony Lyza]

I don't see anything that would make me think funnel on the stills. "Straight up" motion would definitely indicate a pretty strong updraft/inflow area. Any damage in the area? Did you measure or estimate the winds?
WCMs and mets can be difficult to deal with at times, particularly if you're in an area that's not accustomed to severe weather (trust me...I know that from personal experience).
Angie
[/b]

We estimated the winds, which was very difficult considering the very strong construction practices and lack of trees in our area. As for the met, this was the second time I've had one of my reports ignored by LOT this year. Being a trained storm spotter that lives with another storm spotter that I make sure always agrees with me before I send a report, that greatly upsets me. Due to the good construction, damage was limited to yard furniture (tents, chairs, etc.).

 

[rdale]

"I was not only observing rotation off of radar"

Why were you discussing radar obs with him though? And the circle you drew is probably not rotation - that's antucyclonic which (while possible) did not occur with today's storms.

 

[Tony Lyza]

"I was not only observing rotation off of radar"

Why were you discussing radar obs with him though? And the circle you drew is probably not rotation - that's antucyclonic which (while possible) did not occur with today's storms.
[/b]

I was trying to assure them of my high confidence in what I was seeing since they have already ignored one of my reports once this year (a likely collapsing storm that produced severe wind here; never even got an LSR). And I wasn't the one that circled that; that was from a pro met/graduate student on another site. I recircled the area where, based off the pic and my obs from yesterday, the rotation was a bit more likely.

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[rdale]

Still not seeing it... Do you have the after pics? I'd bet showing the damage from 75mph winds would help "prove" you saw 75 mph winds - but I see no evidence of a tornado on radar or in your "before" pic.

 

[Justin Turcotte]

Was there a WARNING out at the time? I wouldn't even bother reporting what you are seeing on radar as the radar op should have a clear picture with a solid knowledge base of radar products and operation.

A storm report should go something like this:
"This is John Doe, a trained storm spotter. Winds are estimated at 75 mph in this portion of My Town. Debris of this type is airborne". End. You may be asked for clarification or additional information.

The few reports I have made (I only make them for the more serious situations) have all been taken seriously. Chuck Doswell has some comments on his page germainly related to this topic.
Chuck Doswell

 

[Evan Bookbinder]

Tony,

On the right side of that image, your neighbor's "backyard" or yard sale (not sure which) has a number of objects that would have easily become airborne with a 75 mph (that's hurricane force) wind gust. Like others, where's the "after" picture?

Granted video would prove better, but the still provided, coupled with the radar imagery available, suggest that you were looking at a smaller scale gust front/outflow boundary, and not so much a wall cloud. Again (video)

Generally speaking, asking people to determine a 3 dimensional object from a single 2 dimensional image, is well, impossible.

Evan

 

[Tony Lyza]

Yeah Evan, I see what you're saying. There was definitely rotation, and the winds definitely reached 75 MPH (wish I had storm video). However, it does not appear anything near a tornado hit.

And Justin, as for my wind reports, that is how they were formatted exactly. Both of them that were rejected. Darn LOT. I made 3 calls yesterday. The first was to report the rotation, the second to report 60-70 MPH est. gusts, and the third to report 75 MPH winds as the storm got worse. The first one should not have an LSR, but the other two should have. The warning for my area specifically mentioned winds of 75-90 MPH. Why my reports were only recorded after my mom (another spotter) verified them is beyond me. Second case of no LSR after reporting a severe event to LOT this year (the first being a collapsing storm with est. 60 MPH winds).

Here is a pic from a friend's house about a mile west of me. Note on the left edge of the image the wall cloud/area of rotation (about 1/4 of it, at least), and then, the rain shaft (what I thought might have been a tornado).

 

[rdale]

I still don't see anything that resembles a wall cloud or rotation. How about your backyard pics - if 75mph winds came through the "after" pic should look a LOT different than the before you posted.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Looks like a wet microburst to me... I can't judge the 75MPH wind claim though, but 60-75MPH doesn't seem too unreasonable.

 

[rdale]

Alright - you got my interest ;> How can you tell that winds from a storm are 60-75mph based on the look of the rainshaft?

 

[Robert Dewey]

Alright - you got my interest ;> How can you tell that winds from a storm are 60-75mph based on the look of the rainshaft?
[/b]

You can't judge the wind by appearance of the rain shaft... I'm saying that it wouldn't surprise me based on other storm reports that were logged (up to 75KNTS); Tony's observation wasn't too far fetched IMO. I'm guessing this was a pulse severe storm, which are known to produce wet microbursts as they collapse.