Tornado or Funnel?

This may be a very interesting area of research that to my knowledge has never been done in detail. The hypothesis is that most, if not all, "tornado sized" funnels below cloud base (that is, not "shear funnels", midlevel funnels or other small transient features) have a damage-capable circulation at ground level given moderate-or-lower LCLs. That is, it would be more accurate to assume they are tornadoes than not, for all practical purposes.

A damage-capable circulation will only manifest itself to an observer at distances greater than a half-mile or so if there is enough material to loft (dirt or debris). Without anything to loft (such as over a rain-soaked field), the circulation at ground level will present at minimum with lighter debris and periodic small suction vortices. To gain a positive visual of these features, you quite literally have to be right there next to it. A spotter a half-mile away or farther will never see these, but we know they are likely there as a result of dozens of chasers making close intercepts of them.

The primary evidence to support this hypothesis comes from chasers who have witnessed and documented quite a few of these. How many times have chasers been right under a funnel and it's been observed with certainty that there *hasn't* been something at ground level? I can't think of any.

The best example I have with good video documentation is the Meredosia, IL tornado on 12/1, with emphasis on the ground-level circulation crossing the road on my front dashcam at 3:03 in the video. One of the suction vortices was no bigger than 10 or 15 feet above the ground:


I think that most funnels (again, "tornado sized", not small transient features) have *at least* something similar underneath, and I believe this might be confirmed by research if it were undertaken. A mobile home or weaker structure would be damaged or even destroyed if hit directly by such an innocuous-looking circulation, so the paradigm of always dismissing them as non-tornadic has real-world implications.

We might have 50 to 100 case studies for a paper just from chaser observations. I have at least a half dozen myself.
 
Good stuff Dan... The primary tool to rebut that hypotheses is the lack of any signs of damage underneath the areas the funnel traveled over. If the winds were strong enough to destroy a mobile home, there'd be SOME evidence at the ground.

But I strongly disagree with your "real world implications." I can't see any it. It provides for good discussions like this, but these discussions don't impact the "real world."
 
Don't overinterpret that :) The paper is not saying that all tornadoes form from the ground. That's pretty obvious from cases where funnels are aloft and never cause damage at the surface.

Exactly. It seems evident to me both logically and from experience that there are multiple different ways to achieve tornadogenesis. I don't think its strictly from the ground up or from the top down, I think it varies on a case by case basis.
 
What this really boils down to is the fundamental minimum vortex strength to distinguish a tornado from non-tornadic vortices.

What is a tornado? It is only officially defined qualitatively as

AMS Glossary said:
A rotating column of air, in contact with the surface, pendant from a cumuliform cloud, and often visible as a funnel cloud and/or circulating debris/dust at the ground.

So...all we need is a rotating column of air in contact with the surface? Check out any number of papers that perform simulations of tornado-like vortices from very high resolution models. Here are a few to whet your appetite:
Schenkman et al. (2012)
Schenkman et al. (2014)
Xue et al. (2014)
Roberts et al. (2016)
Lee et al. (1997)

I'll save you the effort by summarizing what they all show - there is some magnitude of vortex (closed, roughly circular vorticity contours exceeding some background value) present in advance of official tornadogenesis in all of these cases. So that means we have a rotating column (btw, what defines "column" here? how much vertical extent is needed before a rotating blob of air is considered a column rather than strictly two-dimensional? that is an issue I will not further cover) of air attached to a cumuliform cloud...isn't that a tornado then?

Well, no...because someone probably wouldn't classify such a vortex that might only be producing, for example, 35-mph surface winds, as a tornado. If you disagree, tell me what the wind speed range of EF0 tornadoes is. The answer: it bottoms out at 65 mph. Why did the architects of the EF scale decide to restrict EF0 to >65 mph wind speeds? I don't know, but I suspect it has to do with the fundamental issue (repeated from the top) - the minimum strength to regard a vortex as "tornado strength".

My previous comment was based on the above criterion. But is that immutable? Of course not. But with an issue like this, some sort of quantitative threshold will need to be implemented to separate tornado-strength from sub-tornado-strength vortices.
 
Good stuff Jeff. The 65mph number is likely going to be modified with the new EF-scale. After it was implemented, it became very obvious that this was written by a group centered in TX/OK :) Michigan tornadoes can easily be under 65mph, which is probably a reason the F-scale did NOT have a lower bound. In any event, I've not heard an exact number but the 65mph (which is already ignored) should be getting a tweak.
 
But with an issue like this, some sort of quantitative threshold will need to be implemented to separate tornado-strength from sub-tornado-strength vortices.

That was an excellent scientific summary of the topic, Jeff. I pulled the above quote because I feel this should be one of the main takeaways from this discussion. As has been discussed in other threads, what defines a tornado and how we rate them needs to be adjusted. Deciding what is and is not a tornado is far more than just a count. It has far-reaching scientific implications that need to be considered by experts and researchers when coming up with criteria. Until this is addressed, don't expect the NWS to count every funnel as a tornado.
 
To clarify your last line Alex - the NWS will NEVER classify a funnel as a tornado. If there is no circulation or damage on the ground, it's not a tornado.
 
To clarify your last line Alex - the NWS will NEVER classify a funnel as a tornado. If there is no circulation or damage on the ground, it's not a tornado.

In the eyes of the NWS, exactly. I was addressing the possibility of, based on the "ground-up" research discussed prior, the chasing community and others challenging the NWS to verify every funnel as a tornado when there is no definite evidence of anything occurring at the surface. I've already seen this happen and the research has only been made widely known as of a few weeks ago.
 
The point is that it can probably be established that most funnels *are* tornadoes. Absent research to prove it, I wouldn't expect the NWS or the meteorology community to accept the new paradigm.
 
The point is that it can probably be established that most funnels *are* tornadoes.

Just FYI, I find this statement disagreeable. But that's just me. It all depends on what specific metrics you use to define a tornado, however.
 
I've already seen this happen and the research has only been made widely known as of a few weeks ago.

Hey Alex, what research are you referring to? Is there a paper that was recently published on the subject?
 
Hey Alex, what research are you referring to? Is there a paper that was recently published on the subject?

Jeff, I am referring to this research: agu.confex.com/agu/fm18/meetingapp.cgi/Paper/432399

Dr. Houser gave a similar talk at the 2018 Iowa NWA Severe Storms Conference and at the 2018 Severe Local Storms Conference. I am currently not aware of a paper published by her team on this topic. It seems that when it was presented recently at AGU, various media outlets picked up on it, resulting in it getting a lot of attention.
 
So help me understand the line of thinking... If we see a TVS and issue a warning, and a tornado occurs afterwards, you (this research) is saying that the warning was issued too late because the tornado formed prior to a circulation aloft? That's going to be a hard sell ;)
 
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