Tablets: a new era in chasing?

[Brett Roberts]

I recently began setting up a Toshiba Encore tablet (Win 8.1) for the express purpose of replacing my notebook computer and mount yet, keeping the overall functionality. I've loaded the typical apps (GRL3, GPSGate, Spotter Network, etc.) Which all seem to operate well in desktop mode. The problem I'm now running into is Incorporating "Metro" applications into the mix. Primarily mapping programs which require "Windows Location Services"

I've followed the advice and instruction of Nick Nolte's installation of "GPS Direct" and have not had any success in getting that particular app to function as it should. I can direct known good COM ports with good GPS data to this application and it basically does nothing. I can't find any recent updates to this app since others have pointed out that this app seemed to break when a recent update was applied. My question is if anyone has had recent success installing this in an 8.1 tablet or if they are seeing the same issue as I? I don't want to spend any further time on this if it is irreparably broken or if support has gone away. But it seems to be the only option when incorporating an external GPS into 8.1 Metro applications.

I recently went through this fiasco on my new tablet, too. GPSDirect is a finicky program that doesn't seem to operate in the way that something like GPSGate does, where you open it, leave it running, and viola -- everything works. Instead, it installs the driver for a fake "device" which creates the link between your COM port and the Windows Location Services position. It looks to me like all it does is perform this installation, and that starting the program on subsequent boots doesn't do anything in particular to re-activate the COM-WLS link.

After installing the driver in GPSDirect, if you go to Device Manager, you should see a device called "gpsdirect" under the Sensors category. The key for me was that every time I reconnect my bluetooth GPS puck, this virtual device needs to be disabled and then re-enabled. Re-enabling it seems to force Windows to "look" for the data on the COM port again. You can do this manually each time, but it's kind of a pain. What I've done to help out is to use Task Scheduler in Windows, along with a free program called devmanview, to force the disable/enable action to happen 30 s after startup -- this way, as long as I turn my bluetooth puck on before or during startup, GPSGate is already sending information to the virtual COM port by the time gpsdirect starts looking for it. One could also create a batch script that calls devmanview and does the disabling/enabling, then place that script on your desktop for an easy one-click action after you've connected your GPS puck. The *program* GPSDirect is never needed beyond the initial driver installation (at least, WLS is now getting my GPS position after doing the disable/enable without the program ever running).

Of course, this all assumes that the driver installation is working and that you're getting data into WLS during the initial install. From your post, I can't tell if you're having trouble with that as well. For me, if I remember correctly, I had to play with the baud rate a couple times before it worked. If you choose the correct COM/baud and then click "Install," you should see accurate GPS data begin showing up at the bottom of the window (under "Testing") shortly afterwards. If you don't, try clicking "Get ILocation" just to make sure.

If you have any more trouble, let me know, and I can double-check my setup. One thing is for sure: this process alone will make me think twice about ever reformatting/reinstalling Windows on my tablet!

 

[ngjere]

Have you ever seen it to fail that once a "tried and true" function develops using Windows, Microsoft finds some way to just completely obliterate it under the guise of "improvement" or "solution"? What Microsoft was trying to achieve with WLS that wasn't being handled already fairly reliably using NMEA is completely beyond my level of comprehension. I will never understand why they are always providing "solutions" in search of a "problem"...

That being said, thanks for your input. With the exception of screwing with the actual driver through enabling/disabling, I've pretty much exhausted the other avenues you suggested. To my observation, I think there are several items in play here, all of them requiring a level of trial and patience that I'm really short of these days with Windows 8.1

The GPS puck and GPSGate work basically flawlessly in 8.1 through the desktop once of course you get the whole COM port assignments issue squared away. At this point, I'm actually using two GPS pucks. One USB (The one that came with an edition of S&T several years ago) and a Bluetooth Puck which I acquired recently. The USB unit is ported through GPSGate and it's output(s) sent to GRL3 and the Spotter Network App which reside on the desktop side of 8.1. The Bluetooth puck I've setup as a standalone device for the time being with it's own separate COM ports being assigned by Windows when the drivers were installed.

After several attempts at allowing GPSGate to auto assign everything and ending up conflicting with the Bluetooth COM ports previously assigned, I opted to just manually assign ports. Problem solved.

On the "Metro"/WLS side of things, completely different story. Attempting to take an output COM port assigned through GPSGate and passing it to GPSDirect yields essentially nothing. I will try your suggestion of enabling/disabling the driver but I don't hold out much hope. The Bluetooth puck is seen by WLS, but when assigned to an application, is unreliable to maintain a connection with the application for any appreciable length of time.

I've never quite seen an a piece of software like GPSDirect. where the apps sole purpose is to "install" and "uninstall" a driver? So am I to understand that once a proper configuration is successfully found that those details are handed off to the GPSDirect driver when it installs the driver and then is not needed any further? Meaning the driver remains in place until or unless the configuration is changed? If this is the case, how convoluted is that?

Does anyone know if they continue this WLS fraud in Windows 10?

 

[Mark Blue]

Are you using the free version of GPSGate or the full version which allows for more than two simultaneous connections?

 

[ngjere]

Oh, I've used the full version for years now. It's been a bargain given the problems it has solved for me.

 

[Chris Gullikson]

I thought I would add to the discussion with my recently purchased setup.
I picked up a Windows 8.1 tablet from Best Buy - the 10.1" "Unbranded" for 180 bucks at the store. This tablet has a built in GPS sensor.

I used GPS Reverse http://www.turboirc.com/gps7/ and paid my 10 bucks or so to allow GPSGate to see the GPS sensor which I can then use for GRLevel3. So far it seems to work well as does the Metro Bing Maps app.

I have an Allison House account and I loaded up a bunch of placefiles in GRLevel3 - including satellite - and it seems to handle it with no issues. Some of the menus and icons are too small to accurately hit the first time, especially turning placefiles on and off. I do have a Bluetooth mouse and that connected easily and I will plan on using that if needed. Otherwise pinch to zoom and dragging work quite well on the touchscreen. A quick swipe in from the left allows easy swapping between grlevel and Bing Maps. (still learning Windows 8)

I have a glass mount tablet holder but will also pick up the 18" flexible one to attach to seatpost bolt. Same brand mentioned earlier that you can pick up on Amazon.

I need to figure out which mapping software to use in the event Bing does not work out or if you all suggest a better one. Bing does seem to cache map files as I drove around without connected to my hotspot and it was still showing detailed roads. I also need to figure out how to log my GPS location...I used to do this Delorme Street Atlas but I don't expect to be using that on this tablet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Nice to see Stormtrack active again!

Chris

 

[ngjere]

I thought I would add to the discussion with my recently purchased setup.
I picked up a Windows 8.1 tablet from Best Buy - the 10.1" "Unbranded" for 180 bucks at the store. This tablet has a built in GPS sensor.

I used GPS Reverse http://www.turboirc.com/gps7/ and paid my 10 bucks or so to allow GPSGate to see the GPS sensor which I can then use for GRLevel3. So far it seems to work well as does the Metro Bing Maps app.

I have an Allison House account and I loaded up a bunch of placefiles in GRLevel3 - including satellite - and it seems to handle it with no issues. Some of the menus and icons are too small to accurately hit the first time, especially turning placefiles on and off. I do have a Bluetooth mouse and that connected easily and I will plan on using that if needed. Otherwise pinch to zoom and dragging work quite well on the touchscreen. A quick swipe in from the left allows easy swapping between grlevel and Bing Maps. (still learning Windows 8)

I have a glass mount tablet holder but will also pick up the 18" flexible one to attach to seatpost bolt. Same brand mentioned earlier that you can pick up on Amazon.

I need to figure out which mapping software to use in the event Bing does not work out or if you all suggest a better one. Bing does seem to cache map files as I drove around without connected to my hotspot and it was still showing detailed roads. I also need to figure out how to log my GPS location...I used to do this Delorme Street Atlas but I don't expect to be using that on this tablet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Nice to see Stormtrack active again!

Chris

If you've got GPSGate working, you can configure an output to a log file just as you would a COM port. It works great!

Glad to hear you're having better success with things!

 

[Todd Rector]

I saw an earlier comment about GPS tracking software and thought this would be a good opportunity to mention something I came across a few weeks ago for Android. It works great on my Galaxy 10.1 tablet.

It's by greenalp.com and is called Real-Time GPS Tracker 2. The free version serves up ads, which you can eliminate for a few bucks ($3.99, if I recall). On your tablet screen you can track yourself in real-time against google's regular road map or the satellite view. So far I have been quite impressed. If I could figure out a way to get a radar overlay I would use this as a backup to GRL3.

You can download your tracks after the chase as GPX or KML files and view them with Google Earth or any other program which supports this file type. Once you sign up (free) you can send your friends/family a link so they can watch you chase in near real time.

For example, here is my tracking link which shows my last week or so of local driving activity:

http://www.greenalp.com/RealtimeTracker/index.php?viewuser=TREXstormteam

Anyway, something to consider.

TR

 

[Chip Redmond]

How does this software handle times of no service? Does it continue to log or does it skip until you regain data signal? Seems to be a good background app to run to log positioning, thanks for sharing.

Chip

 

[Todd Rector]

How does this software handle times of no service?

I have no answer to this since I am still familiarizing myself with the software, but I acknowledge your question is quite relevant and important to chasers. (myself included).

Since PC/Tablet GPS data is independent of cell coverage, it would be logical for the software to log GPS information (with timestamp) to a local file when cell/wifi was unavailable and report back when a connection was established. Sadly, a lot of the GPS tracking software out there is aimed toward people cyber-stalking their partners rather than reporting storm chaser locations. I will reach out to the vendor with your question (because I am curious as well) and report back with their reply.

 

[Brett Roberts]

For Android tablet users, I'd easily recommend MAPS.ME as a rough equivalent of Windows programs like DeLorme or Streets & Trips. It allows you to download and store all data locally, eliminating the concern over losing cell coverage and being SOL. It uses OpenStreetMap data, which is slightly rougher around the edges when it comes to things like lakes and other landmarks, but for basic navigation on the gridded roads of the Plains it's perfectly adequate. In my opinion, MAPS.ME is every bit the quintessential Android/iOS chaser app that PYKL3 and RadarScope are.

Having just purchased a Windows tablet, I'm quickly realizing that there's really no equivalent in the Windows app store. This is unfortunate, but something I fully expected. The native Maps app (powered by Bing) is nice, snappy and very touch-friendly, but shares the same serious flaw as most other options: data cannot be cached locally.

 

[ngjere]

Brett, (and all) Check out "Maps Pro" in the Windows App Store. It's being touted as the replacement to S&T. Lots of mapping options, ability to cache maps, I purchased it the other day and am working with it. It's still a work in progress but has great promise.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I've been a tablet fanatic ever since I had a ipad with AT&T data given to me by one of Warren Faidley's clients in 2011. I still use it to this day. I also have my old phone which is basically a small tablet (Samsung Note), and I also own a Samsung tablet. While chasing yesterday, I had the ipad going for radar data, and the Samsung note going with maps.me for navigation. On April 1st, I will get upgraded to a new Verizon hotspot (Jetpack MiFi6620L) , and the Verizon data will be used on the Samsung tablet. Having a tablet going with AT&T data along with Verizon data helps me to better my chances of always having data. As a last resort, my Samsung phone has Radarscope and maps.me on it if needed. To me, tablets are much easier and stress free compared to a laptop. I have a laptop, but it's mostly used for morning forecasts in motels, etc.

 

[Todd Rector]

On April 1st, I will get upgraded to a new Verizon hotspot (Jetpack MiFi6620L) , and the Verizon data will be used on the Samsung tablet.

I *really* like my jetpack MHS-291L, and using it with an external antenna I am able to get a signal WELL off the beaten path. I just downloaded MAPS.ME this morning, and I can immediately see the value in being able to download map/street files in advance of a chase. I really like my two-tablet setup (Galaxy Note 10.1 and MS Surface Pro) but as I mentioned in an earlier post, they freak out if you get rain on the touchscreens.

 

[Drew Terril]

I've been a tablet fanatic ever since I had a ipad with AT&T data given to me by one of Warren Faidley's clients in 2011. I still use it to this day. I also have my old phone which is basically a small tablet (Samsung Note), and I also own a Samsung tablet. While chasing yesterday, I had the ipad going for radar data, and the Samsung note going with maps.me for navigation. On April 1st, I will get upgraded to a new Verizon hotspot (Jetpack MiFi6620L) , and the Verizon data will be used on the Samsung tablet. Having a tablet going with AT&T data along with Verizon data helps me to better my chances of always having data. As a last resort, my Samsung phone has Radarscope and maps.me on it if needed. To me, tablets are much easier and stress free compared to a laptop. I have a laptop, but it's mostly used for morning forecasts in motels, etc.

Everything I have is on Verizon (including my iPad), so I've been thinking about getting an AT&T hotspot for the same reason you just described. Plus, I can activate and deactivate as needed.

 

[Jason Boggs]

In my opinion, it's always best to have service from AT&T and Verizon if you can.

 

[Todd Rector]

If you had an AT&T hotspot and a Verizon hotspot both operating at the same time, I feel like you would have so much interference in your vehicle (even if you were on different channels) you would have a lot of problems. Unless one of the hotspots operated at 5ghz and the other at 2.4ghz.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I've never had a problem running both at the same time. Of course I dont actually use 2 hotspots.

 

[Todd Rector]

Maybe I misunderstood. It sounded like you were going to run an ATT hotspot and a Verizon hotspot at the same time.

 

[Stephen Szulborski]

I would agree tablets and smart phones are bringing in a new era in chasing. Combine this with great coverage networks of AT&T and Verizon allows many the ability to get great radar data through apps such as Radarscope in pretty much every location up and down the Plains. I have done the laptop and data card route in years previous but now with my Galaxy S 5, I just don't see the need for it when I can get the information just as fast over my smart phone.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Yes Todd....I have AT&T data on my ipad and I will have an updated Verizon hotspot that I will use. Using this type of setup in the past, I've never had any problems running both at the same time.

 

[Todd Rector]

If you are using ATT cellular-only on the ipad with a Verizon hotspot for 802.11, I don't see that as a problem. Using two different 802.11 units in small space such as a car, I would think would bring all sorts of interchannel interference. Of course, I have no actual experience doing this so it's sheer speculation on my part.
My problem to date is when I transmit on 2 meters, it desenses my hotspot and causes me to lose my signal. I have my antennas farther apart this year, which will hopefully help with this.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Yeah, I agree that there would be interference with that scenario you mentioned.

 

[Todd Rector]

How does this software handle times of no service? Does it continue to log or does it skip until you regain data signal?

Regarding greenalp.com Real-Time GPS Tracker 2 - Today I drove around for about 45 minutes without an internet connection, just to see how the app handled it. As soon as I connected to a stable connection, it uploaded the data. So far, this is still the number one contender for tracking my chase routes this season.

 

[Drew Terril]

Yes Todd....I have AT&T data on my ipad and I will have an updated Verizon hotspot that I will use. Using this type of setup in the past, I've never had any problems running both at the same time.

That's exactly the opposite scenario I plan on running if I go with a hotspot. I figure it will work ok. We'll see what happens when I transmit on 2m. My dual band antenna will be mounted a good distance away relative to my hotspot, so I don't see many issues.

 

[Todd Rector]

I am hoping my desense issue is more bad device placement in relation to my 2m antenna. Last year my hotspot was velcro'd to the B-pillar right above where the seatbelt ring attaches. This was physically only two feet away from my 2m antenna in the center of my roof. I have a new chase vehicle this year and have used the opportunity to rethink things as I route wiring and consider antenna locations. Now the hotspot is located on the other side of the car from the antenna, and the hotspot antenna is across the roof from the dual-band antenna instead of only 3 feet from it. I haven't had a chance to test yet, but I am crossing my fingers.