Chris Harrell
EF0
Tim, I wasn't directing my comment to you directly. It was more or less for the general thread.
BTW, our local spotter group is organized by our county's ham radio club and R.A.C.E.S
Storm spotter among the newton county fatalities.
- Thread starter Brandon Lawson
- Start date
Tim, I wasn't directing my comment to you directly. It was more or less for the general thread.
BTW, our local spotter group is organized by our county's ham radio club and R.A.C.E.S
Jesse Risley
Staff member
More education isn't necessarily going to equal better quality spotters. I agree that you would have fewer people wanting to spot, and plenty of confusion over who's received more advanced training and who has not. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the current goal is to equip ordinary citizens (and public safety officials) with the basic tools to identify and report severe weather in order to more effectively warn the general public of impending weather hazards and increase warning lead time. Stiffening the spotter requirements will not appeal very well to your target audience, and no amount of training will do much to minimize the fact that spotters and chasers will inevitably find themselves in a compromised position at some point in their career.
I think the system works good enough as it is. Looking at things from a statistical perspective, you are bound to have a casualty at some point. It's going to happen, no matter how hard we try. Look at the public safety professionals (e.g. police, fire, EMS, EMA). They are highly trained to avoid injury and get the job done, yet it still happens. It's just part of the nature of that line of work.
Let's look at things from another perspective. Given all of the severe weather events that cause respectable property damage and/or casualties, how many spotters have avoided injury or death over the past ____ years?
I think the system works good enough as it is. Looking at things from a statistical perspective, you are bound to have a casualty at some point. It's going to happen, no matter how hard we try. Look at the public safety professionals (e.g. police, fire, EMS, EMA). They are highly trained to avoid injury and get the job done, yet it still happens. It's just part of the nature of that line of work.
Let's look at things from another perspective. Given all of the severe weather events that cause respectable property damage and/or casualties, how many spotters have avoided injury or death over the past ____ years?
Shane Adams
The difference between spotters getting caught in tornadoes and chasers, is the chasers are trying to. I keep seeing all these reports of "we were hit by a tornado" and whatever, in situations where it's obvious the encounter could've been avoided if they'd just backed off. The way chasing is today, everyone's fearless (except me), and nobody thinks twice of driving into a tornado. I don't know if it's the "one up" factor, money, false security provided by onboard radar, or whatever. But I just shake my head and wonder how some of you are still alive, the risks you take out there that aren't neccesary.
Getting back to the spotter, obviously it was inexperience that played a major role in his death. Like I stated quite clearly in my original post, it's not his or any other spotter's own fault. They do the best with what training they received. It's not "bashing" to be open about the fact that inexperience is something akin to spotters. Perhaps this acknowledgment itself is the core of reason for the continued chaser-hating that is so rampant with many spotters. Are we to just turn our backs on the facts and pretend they have the same level of understanding as a 10, 5, or even 3-year chaser?
All I know is, it's tragic when something like this happens.
FWIW, equipping spotters' vehicles with radar is a bad idea IMO, because that would pull their attention from the sky. Plus radar, as any chaser worth their salt understands, is never truly "live". It's always a few minutes behind reality.
Getting back to the spotter, obviously it was inexperience that played a major role in his death. Like I stated quite clearly in my original post, it's not his or any other spotter's own fault. They do the best with what training they received. It's not "bashing" to be open about the fact that inexperience is something akin to spotters. Perhaps this acknowledgment itself is the core of reason for the continued chaser-hating that is so rampant with many spotters. Are we to just turn our backs on the facts and pretend they have the same level of understanding as a 10, 5, or even 3-year chaser?
All I know is, it's tragic when something like this happens.
FWIW, equipping spotters' vehicles with radar is a bad idea IMO, because that would pull their attention from the sky. Plus radar, as any chaser worth their salt understands, is never truly "live". It's always a few minutes behind reality.
joel ewing
EF5
I agree with RDale. Nobody would do it.
In a perfect world, I could conceive of some uniform type of spotter training...more upscale and informative than what the annual Skywarn class can accomplish in two hours.
This subject gets bandied about each spring once there is a major tornadic event. It's my view, that whenever you're relying on local volunteers to spot encroaching severe weather....there will always be a wide disparity of actual "hands on experience" that various personnel will have with respect to recognizing dangerous aspects of the storm(s) they are watching. The question then becomes...how can we raise the amount of knowledge that each prospective spotter has?? I don't have that answer. Like Shane or perhaps another said...there is no substitute for raw, in the field experience. Perhaps veteran spotters with some real chasing experience could be paired in the field with spotters from the rural fire departments, etc. once in awhile. Like I said..."in a perfect world".
I've attended several annual Skywarn classes throughout the years, and I've been impressed with the type of citizenry that shows up for these events. Most seem to be men and women that really have their hearts in the right places with trying to be helpful in their communities.
In a perfect world, I could conceive of some uniform type of spotter training...more upscale and informative than what the annual Skywarn class can accomplish in two hours.
This subject gets bandied about each spring once there is a major tornadic event. It's my view, that whenever you're relying on local volunteers to spot encroaching severe weather....there will always be a wide disparity of actual "hands on experience" that various personnel will have with respect to recognizing dangerous aspects of the storm(s) they are watching. The question then becomes...how can we raise the amount of knowledge that each prospective spotter has?? I don't have that answer. Like Shane or perhaps another said...there is no substitute for raw, in the field experience. Perhaps veteran spotters with some real chasing experience could be paired in the field with spotters from the rural fire departments, etc. once in awhile. Like I said..."in a perfect world".
I've attended several annual Skywarn classes throughout the years, and I've been impressed with the type of citizenry that shows up for these events. Most seem to be men and women that really have their hearts in the right places with trying to be helpful in their communities.
Joey Ketcham
Inexperience had nothing to do with Tyler Casey’s death. Tyler paid the ultimate sacrifice to save the lives of others.
Tyler Casey was dispatched to the intersection of Highway 43 and Iris Road to storm spot, when he arrived there numerous people were outside and one vehicle was on the side of the road jacked up with someone changing the tire. At the same time, a very large tornado was coming right at them. Without thinking twice, Tyler got out of his vehicle and was able to warn everyone who was outside to get to shelter, and they did.
Tyler Casey ran back to his vehicle to get out of the path, but it was too late... the tornado picked up his vehicle with him in it and tossed it. Tyler died as a result, those he warned are alive today because of Tyler’s bravery.
The tornado was a mile wide at times, Tyler knew what was coming and knew it was heading right for them, but even so he made the choice to warn those outside and get them to shelter.
You can read about it at http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_133174357.html
Bryce Stone
EF4
Is there any way to find out if this person actually was a SKYWARN spotter volunteering for the local EM? I ask for two reasons. One, local firefighters and police are always out and about trying to watch out for their communities (as the police officer last year near Greensburg). This person could have been doing that. Two, if this actually was a NWS-trained spotter on duty AS a spotter, then this may be a first. I've never heard of a spotter being killed while volunteering.
Of course, he could have been both a firefighter and a spotter. Either way (firefighter or spotter), it does not detract from the commendability of the contribution to his community. I am just curious as to the exact capacity he was acting in, since I think a spotter being killed in the line of duty (albeit volunteer duty) is a first.
Edited: Can't seem to find much information online about Tyler. It appears he was on duty as a firefighter at the time.
Of course, he could have been both a firefighter and a spotter. Either way (firefighter or spotter), it does not detract from the commendability of the contribution to his community. I am just curious as to the exact capacity he was acting in, since I think a spotter being killed in the line of duty (albeit volunteer duty) is a first.
Edited: Can't seem to find much information online about Tyler. It appears he was on duty as a firefighter at the time.
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David Drummond
Member
It needs to be kept in mind as well the speeds at which these storms were moving. A person could have easily gotten themselves in a bad spot really quick with fast moving storms. Bad things could be right on top of you before you realize it if you aren't paying steadfast attention and have plenty of plans of escape.
joel ewing
EF5
Gawd, how I loathe p.c.
Nobody is bashing the guy who lost his life. But you better bet that most "spotters" really don't get much action, and imo....not too many have ever seen an actual tornado. Yes...I'm talking about spotters in the heart of the alley. And if I'm right about that...then it follows that most hard-core chasers, and I mean the ones that go out season after season, intercept many different types of severe storms in a variety of meteorological settings....are light years ahead of real-world knowledge compared to the average guy who maybe three or four times a year sits in his truck on top of the same, designated hill on the outskirts of town who typically sees a little hail and blowing dust. Who would you rather have spot for you?
And I'd bet most of the "real" chasers who got caught "in a tornado"....would admit that they were pushing the envelope when they got munched. If they say to the contrary...then I would have to write it off as ignorance.
In my experience, I'm come close several times. And I was ALWAYS to blame..totally. Usually this happened when I'd be winding down a less-than-productive season...and my grateful exuberance over having "one last shot before flying home" overroad my chasing intellect.
To have been caught in a tornado is not the type of thing I would flaunt. Just the latter. I'd be damned ashamed.
Nobody is bashing the guy who lost his life. But you better bet that most "spotters" really don't get much action, and imo....not too many have ever seen an actual tornado. Yes...I'm talking about spotters in the heart of the alley. And if I'm right about that...then it follows that most hard-core chasers, and I mean the ones that go out season after season, intercept many different types of severe storms in a variety of meteorological settings....are light years ahead of real-world knowledge compared to the average guy who maybe three or four times a year sits in his truck on top of the same, designated hill on the outskirts of town who typically sees a little hail and blowing dust. Who would you rather have spot for you?
And I'd bet most of the "real" chasers who got caught "in a tornado"....would admit that they were pushing the envelope when they got munched. If they say to the contrary...then I would have to write it off as ignorance.
In my experience, I'm come close several times. And I was ALWAYS to blame..totally. Usually this happened when I'd be winding down a less-than-productive season...and my grateful exuberance over having "one last shot before flying home" overroad my chasing intellect.
To have been caught in a tornado is not the type of thing I would flaunt. Just the latter. I'd be damned ashamed.
Shane Adams
I stand corrected. Would have been helpful to have the details earlier in the thread.
Mikey Gribble
EF5
That is sad to hear. I don't know how I never noticed this earlier. As much as the chasers like to hang crap on spotters every now and then (myself included) it really isn't deserved because in my honest opinion they probably deserve to be commended more for their efforts than chasers do. On average chasers probably give more valuable/accurate information, but we are out there first and foremost because we love these storms. A lot of the spotters are out there strictly to keep the public safe. Don't get me wrong on this and I'm not trying to offend anybody so please don't get upset. I take a lot of pride in reporting to the station and the NWS, but that isn't what motivates me to chase. A lot of these spotters are motivated by the public safety end of it though and they deserve some credit in that regard. I totally agree that most chasers are light years ahead of the spotters and you really can't even compare the two. You are almost always going to get more valuable reports out of a chaser. Most of the public get their reports from the TV stations in tornado alley and the storm chasers are the ones doing the reporting on TV, so you could even say we do the bulk of the whole public safety thing, but the spotters still deserve a lot of credit. His family should be very proud of the way he died.
On a side note, is it appropriate to dispatch a spotter into the direct path of a tornado? I hope he was dispatched long before the track of the tornado could be verified. Don't they start moving spotters out of the way when a large and violent tornado is approaching?
On a side note, is it appropriate to dispatch a spotter into the direct path of a tornado? I hope he was dispatched long before the track of the tornado could be verified. Don't they start moving spotters out of the way when a large and violent tornado is approaching?
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Bill Hark
EF5
I hope this thread doesn't generate into another one of those chasers vs. spotters. I am saddened to hear about the death of this young man in the line of duty. No amount of training is going to prevent completely prevent death and injury of spotters and emergency personel from tornadoes. Firefighters are highly trained and some do in the line of duty. I am also curious if the victim was actually Skywarn trained or if he was just sent out by the local department. I don't know if Skywarn training would have prevented the death, but I would hope that police, fire and other rescue people in Tornado Alley have Skywarn type training as a part of their education.
Bill Hark
Bill Hark
Joey Ketcham
My bad, I was just posting the info as I was hearing about them. Sorry.
Adam Lucio
EF5
Its always a shame to hear of such incidents.
Its just the nature of the game. Severe storms are dangerous and very un predictable, you can have all the training in the world and something can go wrong last minute. At least his death wasn't for nothing.
The term spotter describes such a wide variety of people...from people who just stare out their windows to people who volunteer for a fire department like Tyler was.
Its just the nature of the game. Severe storms are dangerous and very un predictable, you can have all the training in the world and something can go wrong last minute. At least his death wasn't for nothing.
The term spotter describes such a wide variety of people...from people who just stare out their windows to people who volunteer for a fire department like Tyler was.
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joel ewing
EF5
Just for the record, I feel that the gentleman who lost his life while spotting this tragic event is an American Hero in every sense of the word. And....if I were discussing this event with all my lifelong buds...my brothers in soul from wayyy back, that are still closest to me....I DO know all of 'em would completely agree that he is a frickkin' STUD...for all the right reasons. And if you knew me and my buds.....you'd know that this is the highest honor we could give a guy.
God Bless this fine gentleman and Godspeed to the healing process that those close to him will undergo for years.
Well done, Sir.
God Bless this fine gentleman and Godspeed to the healing process that those close to him will undergo for years.
Well done, Sir.
Von Castor
EF1
My wife has talked with close friends of Tyler's and he was scheduled to be spotting with his best friend who was also a spotter for this county. They had apparently done this many times during svr wx events but this time the friend had family plans to attend. I agree that when it comes to svr wx, especially on volatile days as this was, four eyes are much better than two, even if you do have grl3 or barrons or mesonet.
