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Storm Relative Helicity - pos or neg?

Jim wyman

EF0
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
46
Location
Lexington Park , MD
All,
I have been looking at some soundings from the Fort Smith , AK site (KFSM) and have noticed that the SRH (Storm Relative Helicity) sometimes shows as a negative number. With that said, it appears that it affects the SCP values and drives them negative. I assume with a negative SRH that the rotation is going the other way but does that affect possible tornadic formation? I am curious if that SRH are negative, ignore these values..

Jim
 
Can you see in the sounding why it's a negative number? First thing you do before looking at an index - is looking at the components that make that index.
 
Just a guess, but would positive SRH correspond more to right mover supercells while negative SRH correspond to left movers?
 
Certainly, but in the end if you environment is full of - SRH, you aren't getting any good convection to begin with because of what the winds are doing.
 
True...the only situation I can think of where negative SRH would lead to convection in that area is after a cold frontal passage during the day. Since the wind profile would be backing, the hodograph would turn counter-clockwise (resulting in negative SRH)... and with cold air aloft and relatively warm air still at the surface, lapse rates could be steep (providing CAPE)...and wind shear is generally weak after a frontal passage, but there may still be enough to organize some sort of convection (whether it be multi-celluar or supercelluar). I believe SCP is composed of SRH, CAPE, and 0-6km shear, and so with all of these present, it's possible you could end up with a low-end negative value...but like rdale has said, this type of convection is usually weak.
 
True...the only situation I can think of where negative SRH would lead to convection in that area is after a cold frontal passage during the day.
Storm-Relative Helicity has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not storms will develop. Once a storm has developed it can, and usually does, play a big role in determining the storm's evolution. However, in its simplest form, convection is a thermodynamic process and not the result of wind shear.

Since the wind profile would be backing, the hodograph would turn counter-clockwise (resulting in negative SRH)...
Again, not necessarily true. There is a reason why this quantity is called "Storm-Relative" Helicity; it's because the helicity value computed is relative to a given storm's motion. For any given wind profile, a storm motion resulting in a negative SRH value can be provided. Granted, that storm motion might not be realistically possible, but there are a lot of situations where a given storm motion resulting in negative SRH would be possible and there would not be an actual backing wind profile.

The most classic example is that of a straight-line hodograph. (One in which there is no directional shear, just increasing speed with height.) The initial storm motion would be along that line, however as a storm splits (and I'm not going to get into the storm dynamics of why a storm will split) you'll end up with a right-mover experiencing positive SRH and a left-mover that will experience negative SRH. This is why straight line hodographs are associated with splitting supercells - the resultant splits have favorable SRH for sustaining their respective updrafts.

wind shear is generally weak after a frontal passage, but there may still be enough to organize some sort of convection (whether it be multi-celluar or supercelluar).
Depending on what levels you are evaluating, wind shear almost always increases behind a cold front. Just look at a post frontal hodograph. They almost always enlarge. Also, using things such as the thermal wind relationship, you'd expect to find your faster winds (jets, etc) at levels in which a horizontal temperature gradients (aka, front) are observed below. This would act to increase wind shear in the presence of fronts - including post frontal situations. This is why you can end up seeing elevated supercells behind cold fronts or ahead of warm fronts - the shear is still sufficient for storm organization, however the parcel being lifted is often changed making convection easier to develop.

his type of convection is usually weak.
I'm not sure what you mean by "weak". I've seen plenty of strong left-moving supercells that have produced very large hail. A sustained left-moving supercell is most likely ingesting negative SRH.
 
Thanks for al the replies... Great info..

Question still stands....Since SRH affects SCP and a negative values of SRH gives SCP < 0 does this means a negative SCP < -1 can indicate possible supercells or does values only > 1 indicate this?


Jim
 
As noted, SRH is a partial function of the storm-motion chosen when SRH is calculated (I say "partial" because, if in the case of calm winds, storm motion has no effect on SRH since SRH = 0 m2/s2 for all storm motions in theory, assuming the storm doesn't affect the environmental or near-storm flow, etc.). For example, we can take any non-calm hodograph and calculate different values for SRH depending upon the storm motion we decide to use. As such, if we take a straight-line hodograph that we see in the Plains at times (that is, one characterized by winds being in the upper-right quad of the polar plot, and with winds that strengthen with height), SRH can be very positive , zero, and/or very negative (and all values in between) depending upon the storm motion. This is part of the problem with SRH forecasts -- the graphics you see online assume some storm-motion (using the Bunkers technique, etc.) in calculating the SRH. However, storm motion is not always well-forecast, and storm motion can change with time (and, therefore, so can SRH, even if the environmental winds remain constant). For this reason, we may see a NAM SRH forecast that shows only 100 m2/s2, but that's for a right-mover (often, assuming it's an storm-relative helicity forecast and not an environmental helicity forecast). If a supercell splits, the left-mover may experience significantly negative SRH (i.e. SRH of -300, -400, etc.), and thus take on significant anticylonic rotation. SRH tends to be maximized when the hodograph is strongly curved. In the northern hemisphere, low-level warm-air advection (often desired for destabilization) is associated with a veering vertical wind profile, which means that we typically see a clockwise-curved hodograph in moderate-to-high CAPE situations, and thus we tend to see considerably more in the way of cyclonic supercells than anticyclonic supercells. There are times, however, when we can still have a veering vertical wind profile, yet have significantly negative SRH for a left-moving supercell.

This is much easier to see if you examine an actual hodograph, though. Hodographs can help immensely when assessing the potential for updraft rotation, etc.. For example, on some hodographs, SRH increases for a slower storm motion; SRH may increase for fast storm motions on other hodographs. At other times, SRH would be greater if surface or 1km winds were to WEAKEN. Again, this is easy to see on an actual hodograph, but sometimes confusing and difficult to explain using words.

Also note that a straight-line hodograph doesn't necessarily mean (nor should it imply) a unidirectional wind profile. In other words, you can have winds that veer with height (e.g. southeasterly at the surface veering to southwesterly at 6 km) yet still yield a straight-line hodograph. Therefore, we're interested in whether we have a straight-line shear profile, which includes, but is not limited to, straight-line wind profiles (e.g. weak southwest at the surface increasing to strong southwest aloft).

Remember too that thermal buoyancy is only one part of the vertical acceleration equation... Supercell updrafts may, particularly in the low-levels, be negatively buoyant in terms of thermal buoyancy (e.g. air in the updraft may have a lower/"colder" virtual temperature than the surrounding "base state" air), yet vertical acceleration may still be upward as a result of the vertical perturbation pressure gradient associated with a strongly-rotating updraft.

A post I made a few years ago (HERE) is related to this topic, so I'll just link to it instead of copy/pasting it.

I also suggest the following for those who are interested in learning more about hodographs:
Doswell - A REVIEW FOR FORECASTERS ON THE APPLICATION OF HODOGRAPHS TO FORECASTING SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS
Sirvatka - Vertical wind shear, hodographs, and tornadoes
 
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Also note that a straight-line hodograph doesn't necessarily mean (nor should it imply) a unidirectional wind profile. In other words, you can have winds that veer with height (e.g. southeasterly at the surface veering to southwesterly at 6 km) yet still yield a straight-line hodograph. Therefore, we're interested in whether we have a straight-line shear profile, which includes, but is not limited to, straight-line wind profiles (e.g. weak southwest at the surface increasing to strong southwest aloft).

Jeff is absolutely correct, and I didn't mean to imply that you could only get a straightline hodograph via unidirectional wind profile. I thought that would be the easiest one for people to visualize mentally. I apologize if I left anyone with the wrong impression!
 
I just found the answer I was looking for :

A multiple component index that is meant to highlight the co-existence of ingredients favoring supercell thunderstorms. The SCP is formulated as follows:

SCP = (muCAPE / 1000 J/kg) * (ESRH / 50 m2/s2) * (EBWD / 10 m/s)

where ESRH = storm-relative helicity for the effective inflow layer using an assumed supercell motion, and the EBWD = effective bulk wind difference over the lower half of the storm depth (effective inflow base to EL height). The EBWD term is capped at a value of 1.5 (e.g., EBWD > 30 m/s is set to 30 m/s), and this same term is set to zero when EBWD < 10 m/s.

The normalization values for each term are based on the work of Thompson et al. (2003) and Thompson et al. (2007).

SCP > 1 favor right-moving (cyclonic in northern hemisphere) supercells, while values of SCP < -1 favor left-moving (anticyclonic) supercells. The Left SCP uses an assumed left supercell motion. More information on left-moving supercell environments can be found in Bunkers (2002) and Edwards et al. (2004).
 
You should beware of such indices, though. For example, CAPE is hugely dependant on the parcel being lifted, and a small change in the in-putted dewpoint, for example, can make values much larger, or smaller. Thus, if the model has a poor handle on the moisture in the boundary layer, the CAPE will be next to useless, as will any derived products based on it. Also, SREH/SRH/ESRH/whatever is dependant on you knowing how the storm will move, and does not take into account outflow boundaries (unless the NWP simulation you are using has already got this outflow boundary, and has it modelled correctly!).

Don't get me wrong - derived parameters can be useful, especially in the 'larger' synoptically-evident type events...but a much better approach is the tried and tested ingredients based approach, at least IMO.
 
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