storm based warnings...

[Terry Tyler]

i see that the NWS is implementing the new polygonal warning system...but i have a few questions...

what will this do for radio based warnings?

whenever they have a warning out, they usually name the part of the county where the threat is anyway...so what other effects will this new system have?

most tv stations show the polygons too...or atleast point out the area where the most severe weather is anticipated...

i know it seems like a simple concept, but i dont understand what it will do if you cant see the polygon itself...

 

[Mike Umscheid]

You shouldn't notice much difference in NWR broadcast of warnings. The methodology of generating warnings through WarnGen isn't changed much, and in fact, many offices have already adopted storm-based polygon warnings for quite awhile now. As of today, October 1st, though, the entire verification system changes... this is really the main change for a lot of offices as it is no longer necessary to verify for 4 different counties if, for instance, you had a polygon centered over 4 different county corners. We are required to verify warnings now on a per-polygon basis (not county). This could be abused, perhaps, by having really large polygons when in theory you might get just one report at the edge of a polygon, and 50 miles away a portion of a really large polygon may completely miss out on the threat, yet it still verifies. That's the only thing I worry about... however overall, I welcome the change, because there was definitely a county-centric (I wonder if this county will verify) component in polygon creation.

 

[Adam Lucio]

If the sirens are only sounded within the polygon I can see it being beneficial. That way there will be fewer instances where the poor uneducated public would run to the basement over nothing, thus taking warnings less seriously.

 

[mike scantlin]

wait. people run to the basement in IL? its like a "hey, come outside and look at this sh*t!" siren here in oklahoma.

 

[Danny Neal]

lol, It is more like, "what the hell does that mean are we getting bombed??"

 

[Terry Tyler]

If the sirens are only sounded within the polygon I can see it being beneficial. That way there will be fewer instances where the poor uneducated public would run to the basement over nothing, thus taking warnings less seriously.

another good question...

i dont know anything about the EAS or how they activate sirens...whether they run by a county-to-county basis, or are region wide...

that also would be something to consider in a night-time setting, if the individual had no ability to see the polygon, and not know if he was going to be effected...

either way, i guess it dont matter too much...but its something to think about...

 

[Adam Lucio]

lol, It is more like, "what the hell does that mean are we getting bombed??"

Sadly thats true, I cant tell you how many times my phone has rang with someone asking why the sirens are going off and if they should be worried.

 

[rdale]

A large majority of sirens are sounded on a countywide basis only. 1) It's expensive to retrofit the older ones to make that an option 2) Most EM's operate on a CYA mentality so they 'want to be safe'

TV stations have done polygons for over a decade, the NWS changes won't be noticed by end users that I can see...

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Anytime a polygon intersects a county, light up that county, and you have the old style of warning. So, now you can serve both sets of users. This is how they are translated in radio and text transmissions.

 

[Jason Bolt]

I know in my county we sound the siren's only for towns in the polygon (yes there is always an exception) and our sirens are all set up where we pick and choose what sirens we want to set off. These are some OLD sirens too, most are older than I am! I guess Michigan just does it different; around here any EM I know would look at you like you were crazy if you mentioned setting off their whole county just to "CYA".

A large majority of sirens are sounded on a countywide basis only. 1) It's expensive to retrofit the older ones to make that an option 2) Most EM's operate on a CYA mentality so they 'want to be safe'

TV stations have done polygons for over a decade, the NWS changes won't be noticed by end users that I can see...

 

[Brandon Sullivan]

I know here at least in my county in West Central IL. We page the entire county with esda pagers, and over the fire dispatches, and police units, simulcasting at the same time.. As for the sirens, we sound for what areas will be affected..

 

[Terry Tyler]

this is good...

seems like we have pointed out some possible operational problems with the polygonal warning system...but overall...i think it is a very good system...

i was watching the weather channel today, and i saw them do a polygon warning...

i think it might be confusing to the layman at first...but the idea should take on, and the bugs be ironed out...

mike, i dont know about oklahoma, but around here...people talk about a severe weather event many days in advance, and really do worry alot about the possibility of a major severe weather event...

i remember watching a tornado warned supercell on november 15 2005, and telling my neighbors that there was nothing to worry about...but they called the landlord, and had him come out and unlock the storm house anyway...they were very concerned about the threat...and though, some may marginalize it...there are alot of people...including my girlfreind, who are very scared of tornadoes and severe storms...

even though with the old county warning system, they still said it was for "western lee-northern lee, etc" bottom line is, even though there may be some minor problems on the 'ground level' with the polygonal system...i think its a very good system, and i highly support it being integrated to news media outlets, and on PDAs and websites...

 

[Danny Neal]

To make it as simple as possible, My area, uses the Mutual Aid Box Alarm System for warnings, It is broken down into different divisions but on all severe weather events that particular division is toned out and a few minutes later you hear a dial tone over the radio and within 20 seconds the sirens for that division is sounded.

http://www.mabasradio.org/Advocacy_Statements/10-Use-of-IFERN.htm

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4.9.2Wide Area Information Dissemination: A MABAS Division may elect to construct a network of fixed base stations and alerting receivers for the purpose of timely dissemination of information to member departments. (Note: Fixed Base Stations will require FCC authorization prior to construction.) Informational messages that may be broadcast on the IFERN2 frequency include, but are not limited to:
Severe Weather Watches & Warnings
Hospital Bypass, Closure or Diversion

Apparatus In/Out of Service or Relocation

Requirements for NORCOMM a similar system for the Northern Chicago Suburbs

EMERGENCY ACTIVATION OF WARNING SYSTEMS FOR SEVERE WEATHER

During a severe weather incident, the warning systems should be activated if:
1.A tornado or funnel cloud aloft is reported within 5 miles of the Division.
2.NORCOMM receives information via its communication resources
EMERGENCY WARNING SYSTEM Page 2 of 2

3.A confirmed sighting is reported by trained municipal employees, trained weather spotters, or other reliable sources.
4.Fast moving weather systems such as wall clouds, severe wind fronts or other ominous events.

If activation of the system is required by a source other than NORCOMM, the message should be given to NORCOMM via telephone. Keep in mind that departments should not call after a warning is given over television screens or even weather radios. NORCOMM has capabilities to receive warnings and activate the warning system before it's sometimes given by the National Weather Service. if it is necessary to use the radio because of a sighting by persons in the field, once NORCOMM has been notified, this will suffice. Try not to report same sightings, as this will overcrowd the radio system. NORCOMM using the NIFERN Frequency and MABAS Tone will announce: MABAS Division 20 to all locals -- Activate your warning sirens in 15 seconds for a tornado warning. At the 15 second mark, NORCOMM shall say: Activate your warning sirens for the tornado warning. Once activated, the warning system should not be re-sounded for the same storm or sighting. The warning system should be re-sounded for any new confirmed sighting that meets the activation criteria described above.

NOTE: It is important to coordinate with whoever has the capabilities to initiate the actual system in your community.

ALL CLEAR PROCEDURE: In keeping with the policy of the National Weather Service, the issuance of an "all clear" statement should not be issued by local government. Residents requesting "all clear" information should be advised to monitor commercial radio and television for further weather information. No activation of outdoor warning signals should be used to signify the "watch or warning" termination or any kind of "all clear" advisory.

NOTE: Weather warning is a steady siren for 3 to 5 minutes.
Attack imminent is a wailing siren for 3 to 5 minutes.
Test is only 1 minute event for each warning.
​

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[Adam Lucio]

Weather warning is a steady siren for 3 to 5 minutes.
Attack imminent is a wailing siren for 3 to 5 minutes.
Test is only 1 minute event for each warning.[/FONT]

Back on September 22nd 2006 the sirens being sounded downtown were the wailing sirens instead of the steady sirens. On this day a brief tornado touched down on a university campus. There a video of it on youtube of the sirens and of the tornado.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0m1BN4ZmAQ -- sirens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhUST6b6qNg&mode=related&search= - tornado

 

[Danny Neal]

Back on September 22nd 2006 the sirens being sounded downtown were the wailing sirens instead of the steady sirens. On this day a brief tornado touched down on a university campus. There a video of it on youtube of the sirens and of the tornado.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0m1BN4ZmAQ -- sirens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhUST6b6qNg&mode=related&search= - tornado

I agree, I have seen both of those. I can not explain why however. Typically the suburbs use the system I have noted with the Wail for fire calls and the Steady for the Tornado. Maybe the City of Chicago has its own system that is run of out of the Emergency Operating Center. It is something I should look into....