Sony HDR SR11/12

[Robert Rohloff]

Did anyone get a chance to chase with one of the new Sony HD camcorders? I am looking at the SR/11 or 12.

Also I will be sending video back in via a Sprint card. Is the HD video too much to send back in? Also how has the HDD cameras worked with downloading video in the field quickly?

Thanks for your help..............

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Not exactly an answer to your question, but my current thinking on HD cams(high definition). I now have two, the Sony HC1 and the Canon HV20. IMO, I've wasted money on BOTH. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy SD if I couldn't afford a big three chipper like the FX1. Any remote lower lighting and they just suck. If there's a cloud, it's likely going to suck. It may not be horrible, but dang, it doesn't look really any better than my SD stuff on my 1080P HD TV. The Canon HV20 was a *slight* improvement over my Sony HC1, but again, a waste of money IMO. Any added resolution is lost in the junky quality of video in anything other than bright daylight. $2000 spent....for video no better on storms than my old $400 new sony mini-dv(actually far worse on storms than the old cheap mini-dv).

 

[fplowman]

Not exactly an answer to your question, but my current thinking on HD cams(high definition). I now have two, the Sony HC1 and the Canon HV20. IMO, I've wasted money on BOTH. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy SD if I couldn't afford a big three chipper like the FX1. Any remote lower lighting and they just suck. If there's a cloud, it's likely going to suck. It may not be horrible, but dang, it doesn't look really any better than my SD stuff on my 1080P HD TV. The Canon HV20 was a *slight* improvement over my Sony HC1, but again, a waste of money IMO. Any added resolution is lost in the junky quality of video in anything other than bright daylight. $2000 spent....for video no better on storms than my old $400 new sony mini-dv(actually far worse on storms than the old cheap mini-dv).

Damn Mike.

I must say I jumped into HD wayyy to fast. My @#$% computer wont touch AVCHD. It was a real nice editing system for my DVX100. I need to spend maybe 2500 - 3k for one thats powerful enough to edit realtime HD or AVCHD video.

About the CMOS cameras referenced in the OP's post, although the price is enticing that rolling shutter issue is a no go for me.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

I've pretty much decided at this point that next year I'll be chasing with an FX-1 or something similar. The difference in the way Scott C's and Reed T's cameras handled low light on the Glen Elder storm and mine is huge. That was my most important storm of the year, and it was in near total dark conditions toward the end. There's lots you can do to improve the HV20's performance in low-light, but it's still disappointing. I want a better video camera.

As for handling AVCHD, I think you can actually do it under that price tag, Fred. $1200 will get you a good laptop with great graphics card, 4 gig of RAM, 350-500 gig hard drive, etc. Basically a gaming laptop. The graphics functionality of these gaming laptops is good for handling large vids. I really do like the idea of the way these cameras pull files between the cam and the PC, and the fact that they are solid state. But if I'm going to spend bling, it is going to be on something that is able to handle LOW-LIGHT ... that is just what it is all about.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Currently there is no consumer HD video camera (under $3,000) that can perform well for chasing use. All of the consumer models use CMOS chips, which cannot capture lightning video without rolling shutter split-screen artifacting. Unfortunately many prosumer lines are switching to all-CMOS now in their newer models.

The least expensive camera suitable for all-purpose chase use is the 3CCD Sony HDR-FX1. That's the bare minimum you need for at least good lightning footage. However, even the FX1 lacks in low light performance compared to a standard-definition VX2100.

The cheapest HD camera that both uses CCDs and has good low light performance is the Sony XDCAM F350, a full-size shoulder-mount professional camera which will run you about $35,000 (body plus a cheap lens). That is the cheapest single HD camera model that can obtain a good image in nearly all chasing circumstances. If you've got more than $40,000 to spend, your options increase in number.

You could get away with spending $16,000 on two cameras (less than half the price of the F350) to get the job done. You could buy a Panasonic HVX-200 and a Sony XDCAM EX-1 for about $8,000 apeice. With its CCD chips and fast 100Mbps DVCPRO-HD codec, the Panasonic will get great lightning video - but it has small CCDs and is terrible in low light. The Sony EX-1 is much better in low light (for storm structure and tornadoes), but it is useless for lightning with its CMOS chips.

Unfortunately, CMOS is taking over due to its low cost and good performance. Lightning is too specialized of a subject for camera manufacturers to design for or care about. Even the $17,000 4K RED camera uses CMOS and therefore can't handle lightning (or anything with rapid flashes, like scenes with camera flashes or strobe lights).

FYI, here is a write-up I posted about lightning problems with HD cameras:

http://stormhighway.com/blog/may208a.shtml

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Well, as far as lightning goes, I think you can get away with the ones that can shoot progressive. Apparently the Canon HV30 in 30P mode works fine on lightning.

 

[fplowman]

I understand that the 3ccd AVCHD Panasonic line is not the best camera for low light. I have to say though, If I can see it clearly with my eyes I can film it at that light level.

I would like better low light capability but Im not too disappointed in what I am running. When it starts getting dark (night) the camera puts out alot of grain, but again if its light enough to see clearly its going to make good HD video.

No question the prosumer SD cameras are better at low light. The guy who rode with me all year has a HVX200 and the footage is great. Alot of times we would shoot something and by looking at the LCD it appeared to be too dark. When viewing the footage at home editing, it would show up decently. I guess the graininess of the video in question is really the crux of the issue. The color tuning to the HSC1u is in synch to the HVX so we are using some of my footage as B roll.

Basically my camera puts out acceptable images up until dusk. My camera is useless or has too much grain after that. So 10 - 15 minutes of the chase day maybe is not filmable. A 1/3 chipper HD camera is better, and a 2/3 even better, but getting in and out of the vehicle in a fast paced scenario like chasing is a no go for a shoulder mounted cam for me. The smaller Prosumer cams like Sony FX and above or of course Panny's HVX work satisfactorily.

Fortunately that wasn't much of an issue this year for me. Overall im happy with my 1/4 chipper HD prosumer cam. Oh and a mounted camera light works wonders after the sun goes down.

 

[Robert Rohloff]

I appreciate the thoughts on this. I also have the chance to pick up a Sony DCR VX2000 in very very good condition for around a thousand. Reviews on this show it had decent low light recording. Still I have to get it right the first time since I am sure my wife will not let me do it again soon..............