• A friendly and periodic reminder of the rules we use for fostering high SNR and quality conversation and interaction at Stormtrack: Forum rules

    P.S. - Nothing specific happened to prompt this message! No one is in trouble, there are no flame wars in effect, nor any inappropriate conversation ongoing. This is being posted sitewide as a casual refresher.

"Rendering Aid"

Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
181
Location
Austin, Texas
“Rendering Aid”



If you are an active spotter/chaser, you run a pretty good chance of eventually arriving first on the scene of destroyed homes or communities. These scenes can be a very dangerous environment with many hazards ranging from panicked citizens and animals to downed power lines that can re-energize at any time. Knowing what to do and what not to do can not only save your life, but the lives of others. Spring severe weather season brings with it a lot of discussions about what to do or not do when coming across storm damaged areas. Your actions can truly save lives, or can make the problem worse. We would like to provide some basic tips to keep you safe while making a big difference for those needing help.



STEP 1, CALL 911. The first critical step every spotter/chaser should take when either witnessing or coming upon destroyed homes is to activate the first response system as soon as possible. This is usually through calling 911, but can also be performed through HAM and other communications. It is critical that the notification is made as soon as possible to allow dispatch systems to both gauge the magnitude and location of the damage path and to send resources. TIME IS CRITICAL! Notification in itself is the first form of “Rendering Aid”, and for those with little or no first aid or incident safety training, calling 911 immediately may be the most important thing you can do to help.



STAY ALIVE, WAIT FOR HELP TO ARRIVE. What you do after calling 911 depends upon your training, capabilities, and comfort level. I advocate that no one puts themselves in a situation in which they get themselves hurt and/or become part of the problem. YOUR SAFETY IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! Remember, these disaster scenes are riddled with things that can hurt you or kill you. The simple act of walking through a disaster scene is one of the most dangerous things first responders do, and they are trained to mitigate or avoid the hazards. Calling 911 and staying back until properly equipped firefighters arrive may be your best option. Rendering Aid can be as simple as little things like offering a storm victim a place to sit out of the rain, offering them a drink of water, or just showing you care during their time of need.



Good Samaritan laws generally protect people who stop to help as long as their actions are reasonable and within their scope of training/education. If you are a trained in first aid, you can perform those activities that you have been trained on, but you must perform them the way you were trained. Keep in mind, the more training or medical/rescue equipment you carry with you means the more liability you assume. In some states, trained professional first responders may be required to stop and help (if they are within the state they are certified).



GET TRAINING. We would like to encourage every spotter reading this to get formal first aid and CPR training. One of the first steps taught in providing first aid is “Scene Safety”, if the scene is not safe, do not proceed (see the previous topics!). Having first aid and/or CPR training does not make you a first responder, but it helps to guide you to safely help those you may come across that are injured. You will never know when you will have to put your first aid training to use and your first patient may end up being yourself or a loved one. It pays to know first aid and CPR. It is a very good thing to be able to make a positive difference!



A fantastic program that offers disaster and emergency scene training is “Community Emergency Response Training” or CERT training. For more information go to: https://www.ready.gov/community-emergency-response-team



BE HELPFUL, BUT DON’T GET IN THE WAY. When the first responders arrive, their initial action will be to provide a “size-up” of the area. This “size-up” is used to determine the number of resources needed to manage the incident. The most helpful thing you can do for a first arriving responder is to let them know what you know in 10 seconds or less. If you have training, you may offer your help, they may or may not need it. Remember that the initial first responders may be stressed just trying to understand the magnitude of the incident (size-up). Do not take shortness or lack of interest personal, they have a big job to do and they are trying to figure out what they need to address. Be ready to get out of the way once you have provided them with your report. If you have done this correctly, I can attest that it is appreciated, even though the first responders may not show it at that moment.



In closing, “Rendering Aid” comes in many forms and is the human side of spotting/chasing when you are the first one to roll into a storm ravaged area. It starts with calling 911 to get help on its way to those who need it. It may be the only thing you can do, but it is a critical lifesaving action. Your first obligation is always to ensure your own safety. It is good to be a Good Samaritan!



Randy Denzer is the Public Safety Director for the Spotternetwork and a professional Fire Battalion Chief.
 
Last edited:
Great topic. If I may add... here is a list of things you should carry. Even though I'm an EMT, I don't carry a boat-load of rescue and medical equipment. In the rare situation I come across an accident or disaster, my goal is to keep someone alive and comfortable until more advanced support arrives.

1: Fire extinguisher. (At least a 5lb unit. The smaller ones are OK, but minor vehicles fires generally require more).
2: Good tactical flashlight.
3: Puncture resistant inserts for your shoes. (Not to be worn all the time, just for debris).
4: At least 5 tourniquets. (You can buy military surplus cheap on eBay. Learn how to apply).*
5: Saline eyewash.
6: 5+ pressure bandages. (The Israeli pressure bandages are great. Military surplus items).
7: 2 Emergency foil blankets.
8: CPR mask.
9: 10+ pairs surgical gloves. (Check regularly as they do eventually break down).
10: 2+ road flares.
11: 1-2 rolls of good medical tape. Great for splints or holding bandages.
12: A reflective vest.
13: Multi tool.
14: A whistle. (Can be used for signaling help).
15: A large towel. (Great for making an improvised neck support, covering injured, etc.)
16: Vehicle glass breaker.

*Tourniquets are some of the most important medical devices you can carry. Disaster scenes often involve bleeding injuries to extremities. Tourniquets are inexpensive, easy to apply (with some simple training) and are generally safe to apply. Studies have found that even prolonged application does not equate to limb loss resulting from reduced blood flow because some "profusion" or blood supply remains with properly applied tourniquets.
 
road flares
Tourniquets

Great List Warren! I agree that having a kit is the way to go!

I would only add caution on two items...
Road Flares = We have gotten away from road flares in progressive First Response orgs, They cause more issues that they fix. They now have the intrinsically safe and low cost flashing LEDs you can re-use. LEDs are the way to go if you can get them!

Tourniquets = I agree they are the newest and greatest first aid tool (That has made a come back from being told by medical directors to NEVER use them). But, there is training required to use them properly.

Randy
 
Good advice from everyone.

It’s helpful to take an in-person first aid class vs. an online course. A lot of areas have classes through ECSI - Emergency Care and Safety Institute.

I found out about ECSI by contacting the Boy Scouts. Their Wilderness First Aid class is a good place to start for someone who has no experience. It’s a two day course that teaches things “hands-on” such as how to perform CPR and how to apply a tourniquet.

They also teach what to have in your first aid kit, and how to use each item. It’s best to have a first aid kit for each trained person that’s in the chase vehicle.

The items we got for our kits, including tourniquet and clotting sponges, all fit nicely into a large fanny pack and were inexpensive to put together. My girlfriend and I each have a fanny pack that we keep within easy reach in the backseat in case they’re ever needed.

It’s not a bad idea to always have them in the car in case you ever witness an accident when you’re not storm chasing. There’s a lot you can do in the minutes it takes for the professional EMTs to arrive.
 
One interesting note. I think I've used more of my skills with friends and family than in the field, since I don't work a regular EMS job. Solved some choking and hypothermia issues in the last year. So never think knowing this stuff will only be for disasters and people you don't know.
 
Great List Warren! I agree that having a kit is the way to go!

I would only add caution on two items...
Road Flares = We have gotten away from road flares in progressive First Response orgs, They cause more issues that they fix. They now have the intrinsically safe and low cost flashing LEDs you can re-use. LEDs are the way to go if you can get them!

Tourniquets = I agree they are the newest and greatest first aid tool (That has made a come back from being told by medical directors to NEVER use them). But, there is training required to use them properly.

Randy

Funny, but not funny story. I had a LEO friend who was setting up flares at an accident scene when a drunk woman nearly ran him over. He hurled a flare at her car, and in a one in 100 chance, it went through the back window and landed on the rear seat. No one was hurt, but funny after ten years and he's a lieutenant now. Good note on the flares. We are still in the "open flame mode in Tucson."
 
Another new basic course is aimed at stopping massive bleeding. Randy Denzer mentioned the return to tourniquet use - there's also new pressure techniques and wound packing being taught. Highly recommended by this wilderness medicine certified doc (and former paramedic).

 
Another new basic course is aimed at stopping massive bleeding. Randy Denzer mentioned the return to tourniquet use - there's also new pressure techniques and wound packing being taught. Highly recommended by this wilderness medicine certified doc (and former paramedic).


Yes, other bleeding control methods should be used first including direct pressure. The problem with multi-casualty events is that you don't always have time to stay there and apply pressure when others may need attention. Nor do many people carry wound packing material. In Arizona, the use of tourniquets is now required in the EMT refresher. When I completed my Tactical Combat EMT certification, tourniquets were preferred because recent research from the battlefields of Afghanistan showed tourniquets could be left on for extended periods (hours) without an issue. It could be that local medical directors and first aid instructors prefer pressure packing. A lot also depends on the type of injury or amputation. I have a refresher in September, it will be interesting to see if they are changing things again.
 
Thank you very much for the valuable insight! Do you all have suggestions or know anything of a short CERT training course (maybe a 3-day weekend course) that gets in all of the essentials that a chaser might need? I almost signed up for a local course, but it goes weekly through the end of spring and I'm sure I will have to miss several classes for chase trips.
 
Thank you very much for the valuable insight! Do you all have suggestions or know anything of a short CERT training course (maybe a 3-day weekend course) that gets in all of the essentials that a chaser might need? I almost signed up for a local course, but it goes weekly through the end of spring and I'm sure I will have to miss several classes for chase trips.

Try this link for the St. Louis area: First Aid - Boy Scouts of Greater Saint Louis

My girlfriend and I found out about ECSI Wilderness First Aid by contacting the Boy Scouts. It was a two day Saturday/Sunday course. Wilderness First Aid is appropriate because it teaches specifically about rendering aid to someone who is far from a hospital. Even if you’re rendering aid to someone in a metro area, if there are dozens of victims and five ambulances, then the situation isn’t much different than if you were helping a severely injured person on a remote mountain.

The classes listed at the website above ended in March, but the website does mention contacting the Fire Department for info on more classes. And, there’s local contact information for the Boy Scouts in St. Louis. Talking to a real person at the Boy Scout offices will likely get you pointed in the right direction to other Wilderness First Aid classes, perhaps fairly close to St. Louis.
 
As a CERT instructor, I'd have to say you're not to "self deploy.' With a tornado event you don't know the areas of concern like, down power lines, possible HAZMAT, or other dangers. The idea is not to have to be rescued because you didn't see or know about hazards in an area. I operated in SAR in Moore and El Reno in 2013. At El Reno operations didn't really get under way until the next morning after the flood waters receded. As CERT you should work with Emergency Management if possible so you're informed and supported. Getting your ham license is a good idea too.
 
I’ve mentioned before about civilians offering assistance on scene at incidences and how much it’s been appreciated. It just happened again a couple of days ago. We had a tanker semi rollover and it wasn’t pretty. We arrived short handed with the tanker leaking, the saddle tanks leaking, driver trapped and seriously injured and power lines down. A gentleman offered help and he did by doing a lot of things that we just didn’t have the manpower for. He did things like setting up cones and keeping the growing crowd away from the downed power lines. He may have even saved a life by doing that.
Afterward, I thought about this thread. Did he put himself in harms way? Yep. Was he willing to help? Yep. Did he add to a positive outcome? Yep. We could have screamed at him that it wasn’t safe and to get away, but I’m not sure it would have turned out so well without his assistance. The only injury we had was the driver, who survived.
Once more help arrived he just melted away without leaving his name. Everyone is free to offer help or not. I’m just glad that some people do.
 
I hate seeing videos of people pulling up to a fresh scene and getting out and running straight to a house wide open. We all want to save someone potentially hurt, but downed power lines are so dangerous and should be taken more seriously than anything in my opinion and could be obscured from view by debris. All the above tips from the veterans are so good, but please don't be added to the victim count due to your own negligence.
 
Fantastic post and perspective!

Here's an interesting perspective perhaps some of you may chime in on. For my rural agencies, we outfit vehicles in support of our EMS program. A basic trauma, BLS, MCI, AED, etc. kit is what I maintain in my vehicle. So, in Kansas I feel comfortable working within my scope with this equipment. Out of state I tend to shy away from full KS-EMT level care (not that I've been in the situation yet) and focus more on basic first-aid. My concern would be an incident in another state, and perhaps scope of practice differs from Kansas to the point I set myself up for more liability.

I'll pose two opinion questions and/or fact if you know:
1) Would you handle an out of state incident at your scope of practice? Being out of the state you are licensed.
2) IF you did in-fact handle an out of state incident at a lower scope of practice than you are trained, would that potentially open you up for civil/criminal liability if you didn't perform at your potential full scope?
 
Haven't listened to this Jason Pershoff clip yet, but I believe it was he on another clip who said do NOT move an injured survivor. There could be spinal damage a move would worsen.

Kyle, the questions about working out-of-state are important. Case in point: Joplin, MO in 2011. Joplin is eight miles from KS, ten miles from OK and 50 miles from AR. As a result, a lot of out-of-state medical pros wanted to rush to the rescue. I bet a lot of them practiced illegally that night. I know one was retroactively credentialed by a hospital. One thing state legislatures can do is remove any restrictions that could keep qualified out-of-state help from helping in an emergency.
 
Jacob Parrish said:
but downed power lines are so dangerous and should be taken more seriously than anything in my opinion
I don't think some people realize the sort of power that can be in those lines. They're absolutely not something you want to f--- with.
In an 'ideal' situation, the power system would detect that there's a problem and de-energize any fallen lines. But we all know 'ideal' isn't reality so its not always going to happen.


------------
I think if I ever came upon storm devastation...
Sorry to say but I wouldn't be attempting to help (other than calling 911).
Fact is there's things you may come across, and you can't un-see things that you may not want to have seen.
I would really want nothing more than just get away from the area.
And deff no hanging around videoing someone's stuff destroyed (the camera would be staying turned off).
 

Most of these items should be carried regardless if you are chasing or not. Things like a fire extinguisher, flashlight, and reflective vest cover all kinds of problems you might encounter on the road, not just chasing. Surgical gloves are great of you need to fix something and the multi-tool has all kinds of uses. The overall list is intended for those who have some knowledge of first aid and are willing to render aid. The average first aid kit in a car is a joke. Not much you can do with bandaids and Tylenol.
 
Fantastic post and perspective!

Here's an interesting perspective perhaps some of you may chime in on. For my rural agencies, we outfit vehicles in support of our EMS program. A basic trauma, BLS, MCI, AED, etc. kit is what I maintain in my vehicle. So, in Kansas I feel comfortable working within my scope with this equipment. Out of state I tend to shy away from full KS-EMT level care (not that I've been in the situation yet) and focus more on basic first-aid. My concern would be an incident in another state, and perhaps scope of practice differs from Kansas to the point I set myself up for more liability.

I'll pose two opinion questions and/or fact if you know:
1) Would you handle an out of state incident at your scope of practice? Being out of the state you are licensed.
2) IF you did in-fact handle an out of state incident at a lower scope of practice than you are trained, would that potentially open you up for civil/criminal liability if you didn't perform at your potential full scope?

1. I would handle any incident (in or Out of State) at my scope of practice. That is what I am covered for under the Good Samaratin laws.
2. You have to perform at your trained level. No more, no less
 
Haven't listened to this Jason Pershoff clip yet, but I believe it was he on another clip who said do NOT move an injured survivor. There could be spinal damage a move would worsen.

Kyle, the questions about working out-of-state are important. Case in point: Joplin, MO in 2011. Joplin is eight miles from KS, ten miles from OK and 50 miles from AR. As a result, a lot of out-of-state medical pros wanted to rush to the rescue. I bet a lot of them practiced illegally that night. I know one was retroactively credentialed by a hospital. One thing state legislatures can do is remove any restrictions that could keep qualified out-of-state help from helping in an emergency.

The Good Samaritan laws cover any trained or untrained person to work in any state. If you perform at your trained level in a disaster, you are not only doing the right thing, but your also covered.
 
The correct answer is: it depends. If you are a professional responder (ie licensed EMR, EMT-x, etc) good Samaritan’s laws generally do not apply if you are using your skills.

the laws (as a whole of the states who have them) cover the causal bystander who has no training in patient care but doing the best of their ability to help somone in need.

you have two choices: grab your kit and do what is within your scope of practice and do it correctly and correctly identify yourself as a trained EMT-x, or 2;

2: cover up all your ems/Fd stuff on the vehicle, your hat and play dumb and don’t do anything that shows you have more than Joe Citizen care.

All of the above can be thanked for by lawyers and practice from those injuried by certified persons trying to help but without proper equipment etc.

throwing out the national registry card does not help you either. You are either licensed or not in the “other” state and/or county/city depending on your locale.

Now I am not saying do not help someone who is in immediate danger and doing what any bystander would feel compelled to do, but in many cases, the injuries are not *that* severe that you cannot wait for a local responder. Again, your mileage may vary And just use common sense.

One local example, we had someone who wanted to help and seemed sorta legit, until he told us he had a first aid merit badge from the Boy Scouts. The person was pushing 55+ in age.

tourniquets can also be dangerous if not used correctly. There has been some debates and updates with several protocols and your local medical control or state app’s will dictate their use and extent (if any).

just be smart. The power line thing is very good people have a perception of them snapping around as live... you can have plenty of service and moderate voltage lines that will lay flat and be energized. This as well as automatic reclosures May renergize the line with no warning.

such happened to a neighboring fire department who had a FF killed with a “dead” line contacted his air bottle and killed him.
 
Back
Top