Rate the damage

[David Drummond]

Could this also be an example that maybe it doesn't take as much wind was previously thought to loft a good sized car several hundred yards before depositing it? To me, the real stumpers in the whole Mulvane thing are the two cars. Certainly the quality of construction is up for debate, but the weight of those cars would be easy to determine within a few 10s of pounds.

How much wind does it really take to loft a 3600 pound car, fly it 275 yards and drop it all the while ripping pieces off it in mid air?

 

[Robert Dewey]

I'm not a wind engineer, but it sure seems like it would take ALOT of wind to loft a car that far. Have there actually been any wind engineering studies, where they use a "large fan", and try to see what it takes to loft/throw a car? My guess is it would be in excess of 200MPH... But again, that's just a guess.

 

[Shane Adams]

The lowest known speed a 3400 pound NASCAR Nextel Cup car has gotten airborne at is 162mph, which only lifted it up briefly, then as the car slowed it came back down. In the 80s before restrictor plates were introduced, the cars were well-above 200mph at top speed, and back then a car getting sideways was almost a guarantee it would flip. But even then, the cars would fly maybe 100 yards tops, and only feet off the ground. Point being, if it takes 162mph minimum to lift a car, and 200mph winds only loft it briefly (because the 200mph winds are only for a second or two as the cars scrubs off speed in flight), what kind of wind does it take to toss a car not only airborne, but UP into the air (not just a few feet off the ground). The Mulvane tornado was very narrow and didn;t spend much time at all over one spot, so the "blow" the cars received from the tornado was brief. What kind of speeds would it take to strike a single blow to a vehicle and toss it that far through the air?

I'd say over 200mph, but what do I know.

 

[Glen Romine]

First off - this thread is kinda crazy because two groups are talking about two different events - one being Mulvane and the other Hallam. It would help if these weren't being blended in the conversation. Anyhow, regarding Shane's comments - I think it is safe to say that NASCAR vehicles are a lot more aerodynamic than the typical grocery-getter, but also the car could get considerable 'help' in making it more prone to being lofted - such as debris piling up on one side to help get it overturned. The car in question was parked in the garage, so some additional load bearing was likely. While the wind fields within tornadoes are poorly known - there is likely significant vertical winds to help in the lofting once the car gets off the ground by some amount. Also, looking at the remnants of the car - tough to say what that might still weigh - but it does appear to have lost some weight during its travels....

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ict/cgi-bin/vueimg...61400&IMG_NUM=9

Also, Shane mentioned the car taking a blow of sorts to launch the car this distance - but if this were the case then surely someone would have video of this car flying out of the tornado, as the car would have to be moving faster than the tornado. More likely, the car was caught up in the tornadic circulation for a while. What was angle of the scape trajectories as far back from the final car locatrion as you could find? My guess is that it didn't point directly back to the garage - but I'd be interested to see if anyone has a more exact survey.

Glen

 

[David Drummond]

Originally posted by Glen Romine
First off - this thread is kinda crazy because two groups are talking about two different events - one being Mulvane and the other Hallam.
Glen

The first pic posted was from Mulvane, so I just assumed that was what we were talking about. Maybe the thread title needs changing?

 

[Glen Romine]

Originally posted by Justin Turcotte
The pic below was taken after the 5/22 Hallam, NE tornado which was rated F4 by OAX.

This is what the first post says - and the pictures are posted. Has the post changed since this thread started, or are the pictures from the wrong event? I saw this page from the ICT NWS site with picture of the home that lost the Mustang here:

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ict/cgi-bin/vuesto...MBER=2004061400

See images 7, 8, and that home looks nothing like the images in the first post of this thread. So, yeah, I'm confused at least on which event is which. Seems the Mulvane was brought up, and then the conversation just started to drift reading through the posts.

Glen

 

[David Drummond]

We covered the area I would say withing 100 yards of the Landis home pretty good I think before spreading out downstream in the path, none of the 4 of use at least saw anything that we thought could have been places something as heavy as a car impacted the ground. IMO, especially with the smaller white car, it wouldn't even have had to make a full revolution around the tornado to drop where it did, nor would it have had to be very high up. I think the Mustang probably would have had to make one or two though. We found parts of the mustang over a mile east-southeast of it's resting point, including the back bumper, which on those older cars was a nice heavy steel thing. I am sure someone could look up the weight of one of those bumpers but I bet at least 50# would be a good estimate.

Some thoughts I had about the house too. Many of the stuctural pieces of the home (I.E. 2x4's, 4x8 sheets etc) that we found were not "whole". They had the appearance of being ripped apart which to my mind has to say something about the quality of how they were attached together OR how violent the churning effect of the tornado was smacking all those pieces together.