Night time tornado chasing - WHY??

[John Diel]

Hey everyone... There's a simple answer here....

"Pobody's Nerfect"

I ran straight into a hail core last year, that I "knew" was in close proximity. It cost me a windshield. I was lucky.

John

 

[Shane Adams]

Originally posted by Greg Campbell

With little more than power line flashes and spotter reports to guage the storm's distance and heading, Tim and company overshot their target and set up directly in the storm's path. Realizing their mistake, the trio dashed for cover, and wound up hunkering betwen overpass girders (TM: \"I'm not real proud of that...\") while the tornado passed just to the North.

Watching the video leading up to that encounter, I kept asking myself, \"WTF are they doing, and what do they expect to get out of the chase???\" As far as I can see, all they got was some (too) exciting video and few fuzzy lightning illuminated shots of the wedge as it bore down.

So I'm asking anyone willing to write about it, \"What's the point of night time chasing?\" If chasers as experienced as Gene, Karen, and Tim can lose situational awareness and come within a few hundred yards of experiencing the suck zone first hand, nighttime chasing must be dangerous as hell. What's the payoff?

Why chase tornadoes at night? Why not? What's the payoff? You were there. I can't speak for everyone, but for some chasers, the draw of a tornado isn't something you can just explain in a simple sentence, therefore it's not so "black and white" when it comes to day and night chasing. You drove all day, you're in the target, so why turn around and go home because of darkness? The video's not going to be good? I'm all about documenting tornadoes on video, but at a certain point it's about the tornadoes first, which means even after my video camera is no longer truly "effective" (as it would be in diurnal conditions), you still have to chase.

My "night chase uh-oh" was on May 5, 2002. A huge caravan of chasers got a bit too close to a violent sup, and when it turned sharply right in the pitch black, we were all caught off guard and got our bells rung as the Mother of all RFDs took us to the woodshed. But stuff happens, you learn from it, and you move on. Did that incident scare me? Maybe a little, I don't panic so I never really know. Did it make me realize the seriousness of a bad decision and my own mortality? Yes. Will I chase violent storms again at night? Already have, and yes. Things happen, sometimes they're bad, but that never kills the passion. The Passion far supercedes all. It's the same thing that makes a race driver get back in the car after a bad crash.

Rhetorical questions upcoming, brainiacs please don't explain...

Why does the sun rise? Why does a tiger hunt? Why are men always wrong everytime they open their mouths? There's no easy answer to why a chaser chases, they just have to. Not to bring up the "are you di-hard?" thread again, but the one thing that is easy to ascertain is that those who stay around after the sun goes down are definitely of the di-hard persuasion. Beyond that, the answers are as complex and unique as the chasers themselves.

Good thread BTW

 

[Robert Dewey]

When tornadoes occur, whether it be day, night, dusk, dawn, black, white - I'm there.. Sure, I would rather chase during the day, but the night does have it's good side... You can see the intense lightning, the warm feeling of a southerly nighttime breeze, and possibly a scary illuminated wedge. Definately adds to the fear factor, knowing that you and a dangerous tornado are playing hide 'n seek.

 

[Fabian Guerra]

Personally, I avoid night chasing unless I have radar updates at my fingertips (XM) or an extremely competent nowcaster on the line with me. I love tornadoes and will do just about anything to witness and/or experience them but if I have no radar and can't see the darn sky then I find a safe spot and call it a night...or watch a good lightning show.

That is just the way I approach night chasing. I learned the hard way getting blown off a highway a few years back chasing late at night in a very nasty situation. I suppose it could have been worse. :roll:

Anyway, just to clarify, I would never tell anyone that they shouldn't chase at night. I understand the passion to be in the action and everyone must figure out their own limits. However, I would recommend being very, very careful if you are night chasing...with or without data and would suggest that new chasers not even venture down that path. Last I heard most people who die in tornadoes actually die in the ones that occur at night.

On a lighter note....whaddya know? It's March already!

Fabian

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Originally posted by Gene Rhoden
(Gene's alter-ego here.... 8) )
No. Did they do it to keep people safe in their beds? No, get real. This area is so awash with spotters and chasers that any reporting is becoming obsolete......unless you don't hear it being reported on the radio.
http://www.stormskies.com/ViolentPrairies.htm)

I find it interesting that you claim that storm spotter reports are becoming obsolete, what gives you this idea? Go tell this to a Warning Coordinator Meteorologist and see what they say, I bet ya that you would get the 3rd degree from them on how inaccurate that is and how important storm spotters are.

Do you ever listen to NOAA Weather Radio when storm chasing? I’m sure you do, but do you not ever hear all the “Storm spotter reports†they talk about on NOAA Weather Radio? You start taking those spotters out because they’re “obsolete†and the NWS won’t have any information to go off of.

There have been a number of times when I’ve reported 60+ MPH winds and funnel clouds to the NWS and that information was soon broadcasted over NOAA Weather Radio whereas moments before they had no clue.

Ground truth is always going to be needed, even with today’s technology – but I’m sure this isn’t something I need to go into details about but Doppler Radar can’t see ground level and know what’s going on.

I know I maybe going off topic here, but I’m surprised that you actually said that. That’s my .02 cents on it.

Would I say spotter reports are becoming obsolete? Absolutely not, in fact I feel that spotter reports are just as important today as they were 10-15 years ago and there will always be a need for storm spotters.

 

[David Schuttler]

Originally posted by jketcham+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jketcham)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Gene Rhoden

(Gene's alter-ego here.... 8) )
No. Did they do it to keep people safe in their beds? No, get real. This area is so awash with spotters and chasers that any reporting is becoming obsolete......unless you don't hear it being reported on the radio.
http://www.stormskies.com/ViolentPrairies.htm)

I find it interesting that you claim that storm spotter reports are becoming obsolete, what gives you this idea? Go tell this to a Warning Coordinator Meteorologist and see what they say, I bet ya that you would get the 3rd degree from them on how inaccurate that is and how important storm spotters are.

Do you ever listen to NOAA Weather Radio when storm chasing? I’m sure you do, but do you not ever hear all the “Storm spotter reports†they talk about on NOAA Weather Radio? You start taking those spotters out because they’re “obsolete†and the NWS won’t have any information to go off of.

There have been a number of times when I’ve reported 60+ MPH winds and funnel clouds to the NWS and that information was soon broadcasted over NOAA Weather Radio whereas moments before they had no clue.

Ground truth is always going to be needed, even with today’s technology – but I’m sure this isn’t something I need to go into details about but Doppler Radar can’t see ground level and know what’s going on.

I know I maybe going off topic here, but I’m surprised that you actually said that. That’s my .02 cents on it.

Would I say spotter reports are becoming obsolete? Absolutely not, in fact I feel that spotter reports are just as important today as they were 10-15 years ago and there will always be a need for storm spotters.[/b]

I tend to think the comment was meant towards the OKC area. not overall... The coverage on this storm was all over it

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Originally posted by David Schuttler+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Schuttler)</div>

Originally posted by jketcham@
<!--QuoteBegin-Gene Rhoden

(Gene's alter-ego here.... 8) )
No. Did they do it to keep people safe in their beds? No, get real. This area is so awash with spotters and chasers that any reporting is becoming obsolete......unless you don't hear it being reported on the radio.
http://www.stormskies.com/ViolentPrairies.htm)

I find it interesting that you claim that storm spotter reports are becoming obsolete, what gives you this idea? Go tell this to a Warning Coordinator Meteorologist and see what they say, I bet ya that you would get the 3rd degree from them on how inaccurate that is and how important storm spotters are.

Do you ever listen to NOAA Weather Radio when storm chasing? I’m sure you do, but do you not ever hear all the “Storm spotter reports†they talk about on NOAA Weather Radio? You start taking those spotters out because they’re “obsolete†and the NWS won’t have any information to go off of.

There have been a number of times when I’ve reported 60+ MPH winds and funnel clouds to the NWS and that information was soon broadcasted over NOAA Weather Radio whereas moments before they had no clue.

Ground truth is always going to be needed, even with today’s technology – but I’m sure this isn’t something I need to go into details about but Doppler Radar can’t see ground level and know what’s going on.

I know I maybe going off topic here, but I’m surprised that you actually said that. That’s my .02 cents on it.

Would I say spotter reports are becoming obsolete? Absolutely not, in fact I feel that spotter reports are just as important today as they were 10-15 years ago and there will always be a need for storm spotters.

I tend to think the comment was meant towards the OKC area. not overall... The coverage on this storm was all over it[/b]

Yeah, I think you're right especailly when I go back and reread it... that's what happens when I get ahead of myself.. oh well..

I'm sure Karen can forgive me for my defensive side

This is an interesting discussion nontheless. Everyone has great insights on their thoughts regarding night chasing!

 

[Doug Raflik]

Originally posted by Tony Laubach
Rarely will I intentially chase after dark. May 12 was an instance where I was returning to my base for the night and happened to come across the nighttime tornado.

Here is a shot of that tornado, back lit by lightning...

http://www.wxnut.net/5_12_04171.jpg

Like others have said, you just need to give yourself a little more space. If it is an isolated supercell, why not? It is very safe, as long as you know what you are doing, but that rule plays into account with daytime storms as well.

 

[Gene Rhoden]

Originally posted by Doug Raflik+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doug Raflik)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Tony Laubach

Rarely will I intentially chase after dark. May 12 was an instance where I was returning to my base for the night and happened to come across the nighttime tornado.

Here is a shot of that tornado, back lit by lightning...

http://www.wxnut.net/5_12_04171.jpg

Like others have said, you just need to give yourself a little more space. If it is an isolated supercell, why not? It is very safe, as long as you know what you are doing, but that rule plays into account with daytime storms as well.[/b]

Our efforts from this date:

http://www.stormskies.com/ChaseDiaryWed12thMay04.htm

Another reason to chase at night:

http://www.stormskies.com/May12th0429.jpg

KR

 

[StephenLevine]

Chasing at Night

I have chased lightning at night since 1977 and continue to do so.
The beauty, splendor, drama and visuals of what many chasers call an "ugly"storm by day (a term I don't use-all storms are beautiful to me)
come alive at night. I love how the storm is cast into fire by the lightning from the very beginning as it approaches all the way to the very end when the vast arc of thunderheads explode with bolts, the entire thing silhouetted upon a black star filled sky. And to place myself at the front flank and feel the rising winds, smell the earth/oncoming rain, and watch the lightning get more and more brilliant...
Regarding tornadic storms as well as non-tornadic violent storms, my philosophy has been to drive up to the outer edges of the storm as opposed to punch into it. I feel much more comfortable having the prospective of the entire storm before me and using telephoto as necessary as opposed to putting myself in jeapordy of such things as hail which frequently can't be seen and might suddenly become huge, sudden downbursts and other things going bump in the night, etc.
On one of our tours we had the delight of playing hopscotch with a non-tornadic severe storm over a distance of 60 miles, by placing ourselves at the outer edge to watch the lightning and cloud formations, then driving another 10 miles to the SE of the storm just as the straight line winds arrive, then starting the process all over again..
It was fascinating to watch the evolution of the storm as it evolved and developed tops of 60K feet, as well as exciting playing on the very edge of danger yet staying safe.
Virtually all of my scary experiences with storms have occured at night, centered around unexpected lakes across dark highways due to earlier activity or us being intercepted by exploding storms as we were driving enroute to our motel after a day's hunt.

 

[David Schuttler]

The night of 5-22-04 was really lit up for night watching. When it's this active it makes it easier, even though the lightning can sometimes hide features in it's flashes.

Here's a couple video clips from the 22nd . These are in the Jefferson and Thayer counties(s. of Daykin & n.west of Fairbury,sort of)
No tornado like previous posts above but I didn't mind. Love the intenseness

first

second


[Broken External Image]:http://bamlock.web.aplus.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/nfairburylookingw.jpg

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Regarding tornadic storms as well as non-tornadic violent storms, my philosophy has been to drive up to the outer edges of the storm as opposed to punch into it.

If you can get to see the updraft base what need would you have to punch into it? Or do you mean stay on the edge of it and drive around it or look at the back of it?

 

[StephenLevine]

Night time Chasing

Thanks, Michael..
It depends upon the storm structure. Most of the night time storms that I have chased have not been LP supercells, but rather hybrid or even HP, and many have occured within a solid line of storms, complete with frequent reports of golf ball and bigger hail as well as 3" or more of rain in an hour.
In these cases, my goal was to position to around the back of the storm or get to the southern section of the storm to see what structures the lightning illuminated.
There was actually one night in Harper County KS, that I chose to let a meso pass a bit far to my north from 2 miles to my West, due to wrap around increasing hail that I could not see but most certainly hear, hitting our vehicle off to the East of the meso. We dropped south following spotter reports of tennis ball hail just SW of us, the result being that we saw a profound lightning show, neat storm structure, but missed a brief tornado touchdown to our NE in association with the meso. This stung, but I suspect it hurt less that being battered by ice balls in pitch darkness.

 

[StephenLevine]

Night time chasing

David, thank you for posting that picture.
It is precisely this type of thing that gets my heart pounding, my juices flowing, child-like delight, and all my senses on full alert.
On our tours, we have on several occasions chased things like that storm you depicted, even at 2:30 am just for the asthetics and excitement as well as slightest hint of danger that scenes like this portend.
I have seen this type of display on several occasions at the at the leading edge of MCC's, and have planned for nearby shelter, as this has also been frequently accompanied by reports of large hail and wind gusts to 60 MPH.

 

[Joe Nield]

Originally posted by David Schuttler
The night of 5-22-04 was really lit up for night watching. When it's this active it makes it easier, even though the lightning can sometimes hide features in it's flashes.

You're not kidding. Mike Kruze took this from the window of our hotel room in Beatrice.

http://kruze.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/emAlbum.cg...2;in=28-wow.jpg

Stupid image tags don't work for me.

Anyways, that was an intense night.