National Geographic -- Twisted Sunday

[Karen Politte]

Ya you gotta watch out for those white stovetop tornadoes!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

KR

 

[HAltschule]

LOL. I can see it on next year's documentary. TIV guy stating "Stainless Steel Stove Tops" are nothing to mess with. The tornado starts at the ground and build skyward as the positive and negative charges repel. Gee thanks for educating the public incorrectly TIV guy.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Actually, I felt like this was a pretty entertaining way to spend my Sunday night ... I'd rather watch fresh footage of this year's tornadoes than Desperate Housewives any day.

As for the TIV guy, this was the first time I'd seen how he and Dr. Wurman interract during the chase and their system was pretty interesting. Yes - dangerous work there - but if you have a live doppler a few hundred yards from the tornado telling you when it is too dangerous to make a go of it, I think it's a much better scenario than some of the other projects we see out there these days ... the section concerning wind speed at the ground vs. wind speed higher up in the tube was particularly interesting, and I'm sure that they would like the chance to test that a little more. I guess what I'm saying is that if someone just has to get inside a tornado, that would be about the best case scenario for getting it done. I just thought it was interesting, I guess.

Good to see Dave Ewoldt's Hiawatha clips thrown in there too ...

Like I said - pretty fun way to spend a cold, snowy Sunday night in Kansas City, all in all. I've learned that these shows just can't seem to hit 100% accuracy ... or be able to convey everything that every individual chaser would like to see, but feel like they did a decent job of getting a lot of good points across ... like the fact that a lot of serious chasers are also serious about reporting what they see. It was also good to see some of the skill involved in doing this conveyed for once, rather than the program just making it seem like a bunch of folks hop in their cars and go find the closest tornado. Tim M's coverage of Ft. Worth was one of the more interesting perspectives I'd seen on that event. Anyway - that's my review, I guess.

 

[Melissa Moon]

Well, since I am a moderator, I will not dish out much of my opinion..

My favorite show was the third one they had on where they featured Tim S. I really enjoyed all of that .

 

[Dick McGowan]

Since I do not have the national geographic channel, I can't comment on it.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Well I enjoyed the first one on the TIV the most. The TIV folks seem like fun people and I'm glad they do what they want. The support vehicle seemed to intercept the tornado more than the TIV.

I too was was less than thrilled with how they put alot of it together. How hard is it to cooridinate and make sure you are saying things right?

I caught one interesting blurb on the one. Roger has a pending tornado in a year record of 52? Anyone know what year this was? If you didn't get it on video then I don't think you'd even try counting it for a guiness book entry. I wouldn't think it'd need to 'pend' that long if it is on video. Maybe it is from this year though, I'm not sure. I have all his videos and it has me interested.

 

[Gabe Garfield]

I was struck by how close we came to seeing our first storm chaser death caused directly by a tornado. The Nat'l Geographic cameramen came as close to death as I've ever seen...that big barrel that was flying around at speeds >100 mph would've certainly done them in. Nevertheless, it was stunning video.

Gabe

 

[Darin Brunin]

Personally, I enjoyed all three shows that were on tonight. As Mike P. said earlier it is a lot better than watching Desperate Housewives on a Sunday night. I can't complain.

I was a little skeptical about the TIV show but it was interesting to learn more about the TIV and it's purposes. Although, when Sean Casey admitted he didn't care about the meteorological aspect of it I shuttered. It was funny when he talked about getting mad when people refer to the TIV as "Dumb and Dumber Without Fur" It almost seemed the purpose of the show was to show that Casey had no clue what he was talking but his reasons for doing what he's doing are valid because of his association with Wurman and the DOWs. All in all the plot tried to tie in Casey as a family man that has personal values while at the same time still pursuing storms for the fascination of it. This was a good part IMO because usually shows like this try to portray chasers as crazy adrenaline happy people who don't care about the well being of others and I think all three of these shows did a good job of that.

The second show was all about the footage and I think if anything good came out of these shows tonight it was that there was a more positive image towards chasers and our overall responsibility on the roads. The thing that really got me about this show was that there was a lot of video used from days that had nothing to do with that particular event. June 9th was a perfect example with footage used from June 7th in South Dakota to describe what I believe the were trying to portray as the Trego Co. storm to the southwest of Hill City.

The third show was great to watch as well. It was fun to see Tim Samaras' video again. I was curious though if they said Tim's Storm Lake, IA video was shot in 2004 or 2005. It seemed to me that they tried to imply that it took place in 2005. Which, obviously wouldn't be correct. Also, Tim Marshall's segment on the Fort Worth tornado was very interesting.

It was cool to see the June 9 Damar-Palco tornadoes from all the different angles on the three shows. Truly an amazing day.

 

[Mike Gauldin]

Wow, there's another crazy person out there other than myself chasing in an 87-95 Pathfinder. With all of that equipment on top, makes me wonder how he's got it crammed inside.

I think the TIV is just a first of it's kind and there will be bigger and better ones down the road. It's amazing that someone actually took the time to build something like that. Maybe the next one won't leak. I think it's just paving the road and opening the doors to show people that "Hey, I'm crazy enough to build something like this" and they'll realize it's okay.

I'm wondering if you could design a vehicle using air-ride suspension (for those that aren't familiar with it, it's popular on show cars (lowriders), semi's, , and ambulances that allows the vehicle's suspension to be adjusted and raise or lower the vehicle anywhere from a few inches to a foot) and the body of those little orange camera probes that use the wind to put down force on them and then park this thing "in front" of a weak tornado, drop it to the ground so air cannot get under it, and see what happens. Good idea? Bad idea? Mike you're stupid idea?

Just a thought. Only problem would be width restrictions on roads while driving, but if you can use the wind to hold it down, it wouldn't have to be large. Like a Geo Metro with a 4.3L V-6, a couple seats, all-wheel drive, and a fuel cell. It could happen Who wants to finance me?

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Wow, there's another crazy person out there other than myself chasing in an 87-95 Pathfinder.

BTW - anyone else notice the quick pan of a red sport utility with lots of gear on top in Texas? Billy G flashed through my head (I'll have to go back and see if it was a satellite dish or not, but seemed like it could have been). To have BG and the outlaws in the same show is just too much fun for one night.

 

[Dave Ewoldt]

Got to see the first show and part of the second. I saw the TIV out on the road several times last year....and while I always questioned what they were trying to do.... I now can understand it a bit more and like the fact that they were "teaming" with the DOW's to "keep out of the big one".

I would like to get close up vid of a tornado. How nice it would be to have a million dollar doppler a mile away telling me second by second what the wind speeds were in a tornado.

The 50 gallon drum flying by the support vehicle still gives me chills. 10 feet to the left and we would still be remembering those guys.

All in all... it wasn't a bad job by the production company who prob knows as much about tornadoes as my parents do (not much). I always expect the events/time seq to be out of order and fit what they need to be the most interesting for the common folk.

On a side note...I'm really starting to question the money, time and effort that is being put forth to get close up vid of tornadoes. Whether it be the TIV or "The Outlaws" or whoever. I really don't see any chance of seeing 'clear' vid from a camera in a tornado. I'll settle for just getting nearby and letting the zoom do the rest. Even from a data standpoint... Tim S's Manchester, SD probes were cool....but they really didn't tell us much more than we already knew. Pressures are low and wind speeds are high. I think that the multi-DOW data that shows how supercells evolve into tornado producing storms is about as good as it can get... and about all that we need. The rest just makes good Tee Vee viewing I guess....

 

[Andrew Khan]

HP Tornado...LOL. I hate it when they show just numerous 'clips' of other tornadoes/storms during the beginning and ending of each commercial break, when they have no connection with the show what so ever. I do not like the Casey guy.....all he cares about is disrespecting nature, and killing himself.

 

[Glen Romine]

Even from a data standpoint... Tim S's Manchester, SD probes were cool....but they really didn't tell us much more than we already knew. Pressures are low and wind speeds are high. I think that the multi-DOW data that shows how supercells evolve into tornado producing storms is about as good as it can get... and about all that we need. The rest just makes good Tee Vee viewing I guess....

While I respect your opinion, I really can't agree with it as I think the knowledge we will gain from measurements of tornadic winds at ground level will be extremely valuable in better understanding their behavior. Radars are great tools, but are no susbstitute for actual measurements, and have a number of limitations in the interpretation of radar derived winds (ranging from centrifuging particles, beam spreading, side lobes, only measuring the radial wind component (requires assumptions then of the wind at a right angle to the radar beam), etc...). The experts still don't agree on what the tornado force balances are (particularly right near the ground where surface drag significantly complicates the flow), and direct measurements will likely be needed to settle the debate. As for the best way to collect that data, I personally think something in between Tim's turtle probes and the TIV's (something unmanned, but remotely moveable) will be the premier tool. The value of the video may, as you suggested, simply serve as a tool to fund the instrument measurements, as I agree there may be limited knowledge gained from video up close and personal (but Tim S. will probably prove us wrong on that too).

Glen

 

[Karen Politte]

On a side note...I'm really starting to question the money, time and effort that is being put forth to get close up vid of tornadoes. Whether it be the TIV or "The Outlaws" or whoever. I really don't see any chance of seeing 'clear' vid from a camera in a tornado. I'll settle for just getting nearby and letting the zoom do the rest. Even from a data standpoint... Tim S's Manchester, SD probes were cool....but they really didn't tell us much more than we already knew. Pressures are low and wind speeds are high. I think that the multi-DOW data that shows how supercells evolve into tornado producing storms is about as good as it can get... and about all that we need. The rest just makes good Tee Vee viewing I guess....

Great comment and points here, Dave. I agree with you entirely and I can't really add anything to what you said - you put it concisely and understandably. Although measurements obtained from a probe within a tornado are interesting and great to pour over........they are, I feel, not unexpected or revolutionary. Like you said - low pressures and high winds.

From an educational and advancement perspective, I turn to the work of the dual-DOW experiments every time. Seeing what is going on in such high resolution on such a small scale.......now THAT'S what interests ME!!

KR

 

[Tim Samaras]

Karen, you wrote:

Great comment and points here, Dave. I agree with you entirely and I can't really add anything to what you said - you put it concisely and understandably. Although measurements obtained from a probe within a tornado are interesting and great to pour over........they are, I feel, not unexpected or revolutionary. Like you said - low pressures and high winds

.

Hmmm....you and Dave certainly have strong opinions about this issue. It is felt within the scientific community that there is still much to learn with in-situ observations. I understand completely that your comments are your opinions only, but not the same with everyone.

Certainly I feel different, and Glen did a great job describing the need. There were three main foci for VORTEX-II (Source: Scientific Program Overview submitted to NSF last January):

*Tornado Genesis
*Near-ground wind field in tornadoes
*Relationships between tornadic storms and their environments

Only three topics, and certainly the second one applies. Here is text lifted from the Experimental Design Overview:

The second VORTEX2 focus, on near-ground winds in tornadoes, concerns profiles of radial, tangential, and vertical motion in a variety of tornadoes (strong vs. weak, wide vs. narrow, single-vortex vs. multiple-vortex) and relationships between damage and wind speed, acceleration, and duration. The challenge of obtaining wind measurements in the lowest few tens of m AGL will be met through “targets of opportunityâ€￾, in which tornadoes cross or pass near roads where narrow-beam and rapidly-scanning radars, tornado in situ probes, and photogrammetry cameras are deployed. When tornadoes are well observed by these instruments, detailed ground and aerial damage surveys will be conducted soon after tornado occurrence.

Anyways, in reference to the show, I found Sean Casey VERY entertaining, and the show fun to watch.

On Thursday, the days will be getting longer...should be a chaser holiday.

Happy Holidays!
Tim