Narrow banding required by 1/1/2013

[Tim Shriver]

This will affect many of us down the road and is something
we all need to be preparing for.

These rules, as they stand now apply to all non-public
safety LMRs under 512Mhz.

In short, any new repeaters must be narrow band
by 1/1/2011 or their license application will be denied.
So after that date, applications for new systems must
reflect the new narrow band or they will be rejected.

By 1/1/2013 all radios and repeaters sytems under 512Mhz must be at the 12.5 narrow band or they could loose the right to use them from the FCC.


With the number of radio system we use this will not be a
cheap fix. We are setting funds aside now for this and looking
into what can be done to convert our current systems to the
new bandwidth requirements.

In some areas the counties are looking into helping the
spotters cover some if not all of this cost.

This could silence many spotter groups if they are not prepared.

I am very interested in hearing what other spotter groups
are planning to do to meet this new requirement.




Deadlines
To phase in the migration deadline of January 1, 2013, the FCC has established interim deadlines.

The first important deadline is January 1, 2011, after which:

The FCC will not grant applications for new voice operations or applications to expand the authorized contour of existing stations that use 25 kHz channels. Only narrowband authorizations will be granted.

The FCC will prohibit manufacture or importation of new equipment that operates on 25 kHz channels. This will reduce the availability of new equipment for legacy radio systems and will affect how agencies maintain and upgrade older systems.

Private land mobile radio (LMR) systems—including municipal government and State and local public safety systems—use blocks of radio spectrum called channels. (See Radio Spectrum9766.) Historically, LMR systems have used 25 kHz-wide channels. In December 2004, the Federal Communications Commission mandated that all private LMR users operating below 512 MHz move to 12.5 kHz narrowband voice channels and highly efficient data channel operations by January 1, 2013.

Tim

 

[Rich Long]

Tim,
Just a question. How many spotter groups out there use private LMR repeaters? I'm asking because that's not very common in my experience.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Ham radio is LMR along with any commercial radio systems (business band).
So most spotter groups fall under this.

Ham radio under 512 MHZ. So 2 meter and 70 cm fall under this.

We use both.

 

[Rich Long]

Ham radio falls under the Amateur Radio Service not the Land Mobile Radio Service which is much different.

From the FCC Website:
Private land mobile radio systems are used by companies, local governments, and other organizations to meet a wide range of communication requirements, including coordination of people and materials, important safety and security needs, and quick response in times of emergency. These systems, which often share frequencies with other private users, make possible many day-to-day activities that people across the United States have come to rely on, whether directly or indirectly. Public safety agencies, utilities, railroads, manufacturers, and a wide variety of other businesses - from delivery companies to landscapers to building maintenance firms - rely on their business radio systems every day. The services included in Private Land Mobile are Public Safety, Industrial/Business, Private Land Mobile Paging, and Radiolocation.

But by the sounds of it you should look at upgrading your LMR's (maybe a grant) the ham side will be fine

 

[Tim Shriver]

Per the FCC

http://www.fcc.gov/glossary.html

LAND MOBILE SERVICE
A public or private radio service providing two-way communication, paging and radio signaling on land.

Seems the FCC has two definitions of LMR.

I have a call into the ARRL and the FCC on this.

I know our business band machines are affected for sure
but now I am unclear on the ham side of things.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[rdale]

Per the FCC:

"Private land mobile radio (LMR) systems (FCC Part 90)-including municipal government, State, and local public safety systems"

http://www.qualitymobile.com/NarrowbandReady.htm

Ham repeaters don't have part 90 licenses, hence the ruling does not include ham bands.

 

[John Begler]

One other item to point out is HAM radio cannot be used by anyone that would be getting paid for their services. That would mean that anyone working as a chaser for a living would not be legal in using HAM radio as part of their work

 

[rdale]

That's not quite correct. That person is allowed to use Skywarn for reporting severe weather just as much as anyone else...

 

[david diehl]

On top of that, you can use ham radio for communications, as long as you are not getting paid for that service.
If I call for a tow truck for someone, and they offer my money for it, I have to turn it down, but if I am chasing, and sell video, or photos then that is ok

 

[Jason Foster]

On top of that, you can use ham radio for communications, as long as you are not getting paid for that service.
If I call for a tow truck for someone, and they offer my money for it, I have to turn it down, but if I am chasing, and sell video, or photos then that is ok

The problem occurs money wise with the fact that many chasers are coordinating their positions with others, which does violate the rules. But I'm not telling if anyone else isn't going to. Most chasers break FCC rules left and right, like not identifying properly, and even on an occasion I've noticed non-licensed hams on the radio (when it's slow, not uncommon for me to scan around the entire band). Just don't be dumb and put the fact you are breaking the rules in a video (as I also once noticed).

Narrow banding is likely in response to the overcrowding in many of the bands surrounding the ham radio bands. However, ham radio is far from being over crowded. It is more likely that we'd loose something like the rest of the 220Mhz band (222mhz) before being subjected to narrow banding.

 

[David Drummond]

You aren't kidding Jason, a number of times I've heard chasers on the 2 meter band talking there were not licensed. Cussing up a storm, it sounded just like CB. I threw out my call sign and they got dead quiet not to be heard from for a while. Then hear them an hour later on another frequency.

I try to not complain much about what other chasers do, but that stuff needs to stop. The FCC can and does hand out some huge wallet pinchers for that kind of stuff.

I've also heard MANY SKYWARN nets going for long periods only using the last 3 letters of their call signs, which violates the rules as well.

 

[Benjamin Rock]

Guilty.. There have been times where Ive just thrown out the last three of my call, but I have properly ID'd at the end of the converse. This usually happens when there is priority traffic I need to pass. Otherwise, I try to be by the book as much as possible or I use a different radio system(gmrs/frs/murs/cb)

 

[Ric Burney]

As most hams are already familiar w/ the rules and nuances of the ham bands, there are other radios services mentioned (licensed and license-free) that may be used. A good resource is
http://www.popularwireless.com
There are links, a forum and a bunch of good folks there that should help clear up any misconceptions about who can do what on which bands / services.
Another is http://www.arrl.org

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

Guilty.. There have been times where Ive just thrown out the last three of my call, but I have properly ID'd at the end of the converse. This usually happens when there is priority traffic I need to pass. Otherwise, I try to be by the book as much as possible or I use a different radio system(gmrs/frs/murs/cb)

Not guilty (by reason of insanity? Just kidding Benjamin). You can initiate a call without ever using your callsign, you just have to ID once every 10 minutes, and/or at the end of your communication. Using your suffix (or location) is quite commonly referred to as your "tactical callsign", and used much the way you describe to shorten transmissions. I won't put words in David's mouth, but I think he's referring to the net participants NEVER using their full call. A good net control operator would ask them to clear with their full before moving on, or when there's break in the action.....A good ham will do it by habit. Just make sure you clear with your full call, and you're within the letter (pun intended) of the law

 

[Tim Balassie]

I'm curious about the business comm restrictions. It seems to me that it would be illegal to use the amateur radio bands (e.g. 146.55) to coordinate commercial chase tour vans around a storm, but legal if you're coordinating college tour vans around the same storm.

True?

Tim Balassie (KC9JIB)
Kane Co, IL

 

[rdale]

I'd agree with that.

 

[Ric Burney]

I'm curious about the business comm restrictions. It seems to me that it would be illegal to use the amateur radio bands (e.g. 146.55) to coordinate commercial chase tour vans around a storm, but legal if you're coordinating college tour vans around the same storm.

True?

Tim Balassie (KC9JIB)
Kane Co, IL

True if someone is conducting for-profit business and uses ham radio to make it happen. A college group out for educational purposes, non-profit would not fall under such restrictions. For profit entities can get their own private business freqs. or use FRS, MURS and some license-free GMRS channels and be just fine legally.
The key to this restriction is the use of ham radio to facilitate profitable business dealings.. you can't pay someone, be paid or compel an employee to use the amateur bands for business dealings.

 

[Jason Foster]

I just chuckled at the thought:

But chasers rarely make a profit....so does it still count....

 

[Andrew Ryan]

True if someone is conducting for-profit business and uses ham radio to make it happen. A college group out for educational purposes, non-profit would not fall under such restrictions. .

You have to be careful if your a college group. College students can do it with no problems since they're not being paid. But if they are an employee of the university, it would be in violation of the rule, since they are being paid.

 

[Daniel Beuchert]

I think the main thing to think of is the wording that if you can do it well on another band, you should do it there - ie use a CB or family band. I'd presume most colleges have business band type radios available that would make HAM use not the best way to handle communication. Of course, I just got my license, so I might be a little fuzzy.

I would also think that if you're coordinating position with other chasers that you're not employed with, that's a safety issue (though if you're all in business together, coordinating like TVN per say, business band would probably be better). If you're coordinating the sale of video, that's a pretty obvious violation.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I think the main thing to think of is the wording that if you can do it well on another band, you should do it there - ie use a CB or family band. I'd presume most colleges have business band type radios available that would make HAM use not the best way to handle communication. Of course, I just got my license, so I might be a little fuzzy.

I would also think that if you're coordinating position with other chasers that you're not employed with, that's a safety issue (though if you're all in business together, coordinating like TVN per say, business band would probably be better). If you're coordinating the sale of video, that's a pretty obvious violation.

No, you've got the right idea. But I doubt universities would allow students to use their frequencies. Most student groups use ham radio. Since it's usually used between students, it doesn't violate the rules. Ham radio is the best option because a lot of people have their license, it's frequency agile, and skywarn nets are on the ham bands.

 

[David Drummond]

I don't think anyone is coordinating the sale of video on ham bands. Last I checked, the CNN news desk doesn't have an HF rig.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I don't think anyone is coordinating the sale of video on ham bands. Last I checked, the CNN news desk doesn't have an HF rig.

Sure! And they prefer betacam for all footage that's sent in.

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

I don't think anyone is coordinating the sale of video on ham bands. Last I checked, the CNN news desk doesn't have an HF rig.

No wonder they haven't been getting the video I send via SSTV!