My Video Editting Transition to Sony Vegas and true 24p Video with my HV20

[James Langford]

So, I've been pulling my hair out for the past two weeks trying to create true 24p 1920x1080 video from my Canon hv-20 NTSC camera. I have some great footage from a beautiful supercell on July 12th in Western OK shot in the pf24 hdv mode of the camera. I normally process my movies in Windows Movie Maker, but I just wasn't happy with the results in this case.

I first downloaded the demo of Sony Vegas Pro to see how that works vs movie maker. Wow, what a powerful but confusing piece of software. It's taken my a while, but I think I am becoming somewhat comfortable editting in Vegas now, and I love it. The number of effects you can apply is amazing. In messing with the different templates, I started diving deeper into what my hv20 can do in terms of resolution.

After doing a bit of googling, I found this excellent resource:

http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/07/13/canon-hv20-24p-pulldown/

In short, this explains that the hv20 can create 24p video, but it is wrapped in a 60 frame interlaced package. In order to get 24p, you have to do what's called a pulldown romoval to transform the video stream. If your video is only going to DVD or TV, then you don't have to worry about this. However, for me, my video is soley for the internet, and I really want deinterlaced progressive scan quality.

For the past two weeks, I've been trying to get my head around this whole crazy concept. I consider myself a pretty sharp photo editor, very familiar with a number of tools. My photo tools, however, seem simple compared to the insanity of codecs, rendering, pulldown removal, etc. The number of different standards and ways of doing things with hd video is mind boggling. I was finally able to get the 2nd Windows PC method mentioned in the above link working last night, and I'm pretty happy with the results. Here's a before and after video rendering:

1440x1080 interlaced video from Windows Movie Maker:
http://www.langfordphotography.com/...ce-Chase/12917668_rzkH9#933610526_ohG92-X2-LB

1920x1080 24p rendering from Sony Vegas:
http://www.langfordphotography.com/...ce-Chase/12917668_rzkH9#972862127_yS5fk-X2-LB
(note, this video is BIG, and you'll need a good internet connection and a high res monitor to see it fully (or a tv)).

So, am I crazy for trying to get 24p? Is anyone else doing this? I personally love the huge resolution. It's also easier to pull individual frames from the source since it's not interlaced, and the files are a larger resolution.

Any comments, feedback or thoughts are appreciated!

James

 

[Andrew Ryan]

So, am I crazy for trying to get 24p? Is anyone else doing this? I personally love the huge resolution. It's also easier to pull individual frames from the source since it's not interlaced, and the files are a larger resolution.

Short answer...yes.

There's no benefit to 24p unless you are transferring your project to film. There's no increase in resolution. I'd recommend checking out this thread from hv20.com:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?27037-The-Truth-About-24p-(video)&highlight=24p

If you are looking for a cinematic look, that has to be achieved in other ways other than changing the frame rate. The HV20 is a great camera, you'd be surprised with the images you can pull from it with a little work.

 

[James Langford]

Thanks for the comments and link Andrew. I'm not really too concerned about achieving the cinematic look of 24p. I'm more concerned about the end result and overall quality. I dug a bit on hv20, and found references stating that 1440 x 1080 is the max resolution like you said (I guess resolution isn't the right word. Maybe pixel format is better) for the hv20 using the firewire capture method, which I use. So now, the main question is whether I should shoot in the 24p mode and use the pulldown method to get a progressive stream, or just stick with the standard mode.

I guess what I need to do is render this same scene using both methods. I have the original hdv m2t files, and it's easy to replace the clips in Vegas. Time for 3 hours of rendoring again!

As an aside, here's some clip exports from the converted 24p video:

I really like the look of these from the progressive scan stream. I guess I could deinterlace the 60i stream to get the same results? In the past, I always had interlacing artifacts when I tried to grab individual frames.

Thanks again,

James