Is this site dead?

[Scott Hammel]

I haven't been on here in awhile either and FB is definitely the blame for that. I didn't even open a FB account until last year but the convenience of it is what won me over. I do miss the great forecast threads that used to exist here because they were discussed in detail and were super educational for me. Now, it seems like all of the forecast discussion I participate in is through email groups with other CO chasers or through FB. I'd love to see some sort of FB integration on the forum. Not sure how that'd work technically though. Anyway, I would be 1000% psyched to participate in another chase case! Obviously those have had an influence on my website name haha...

 

[Keith Wilson]

I really enjoyed the chase case threads. Though I didn't participate in them, I read every word and tried to understand. I did a lot of chasing in the 80's, especially after witnessing the 1982 Marion, Illinois F4 from a distance of a few blocks. Sheer luck had put me there, sheer fate kept me from being a statisic. Family life happened and I became a spotter for quite a long time, and I am finding that getting back into chasing is intimidating with all of the changes in methods and equipment. Information overload is a good term for it, but what is useful and what is window dressing?

Technology has come a long way since then, but I still don't take full advantage of it in the field the way most folks in here do. This is a great site to learn how to use the new technology on the fly to get you in position ahead of time. ST members have already taught me a lot and helped me to refine and better understand what I already knew. I relied 100% on my eyes, senses, and knowledge in the 80's and did just fine, but I find myself wanting more from the chasing experience.

If my previous posts implied that I thought the site was dead, I apologize. In my opinion it is far from it. My remarks about infractions were not an attack on the mods, just a personal observation of my reaction. I thank you for the explanations offered, as I hope you appreciate my feedback.

 

[Matt Tottle]

The methods for handling posts have been and still are being debated. For simple stuff, there is no effective difference between an "infraction" and a PM from a moderator. Both are private messages with no direct impact on the person's posting privileges or public image on the board. Many have to be accumulated before there is a temporary restriction on posting privileges. The infraction system is used so that all of the moderators can see the message and participate, rather than a PM which is private between a single moderator and the user. Something as simple as changing what infractions are called to something more benign sounding might be the ticket to this issue as many folks seem to get hung up on the title and point values even as we try to make the message within as courteous and friendly as possible. They're friendly reminders, not slaps on the wrist.

I can absolutely see where Keith is coming from here.. There was a stretch this year where the admin/mods had me on "infraction speed dial".. But I am quite opinionated about some things, and I pretty much deserved what I got because I overstepped.

But the thing is, whether it was because you got into an argument over some stupid conspiracy theory, or you made an honest mistake in the size of a picture, that email titled "You have received an infraction at StormTrack" makes you automatically think bad things. Like I said, I deserved the ones I got, and I wasn't surprised at them, but for someone to see that in their inbox (Even just a warning) for a first offense simple mistake in picture size or other protocol error is kind of rude. It would really be better to just send a PM in these cases. It takes the same amount of time to send a PM as it does to fill out the infraction form, and it doesn't have the menacingly cold email attached to it.

I haven't admin'd a vBulletin forum in a while, but IIRC the email/PM that gets sent is titled either Infraction or Warning, regardless of what the actual "offense" is called. So you can't even create one called "Policy Reminder" or something like that, unless the system has changed or there is a plugin that allows such a thing, but still functions like the infraction system where any admin/mod can be privy.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I haven't admin'd a vBulletin forum in a while, but IIRC the email/PM that gets sent is titled either Infraction or Warning, regardless of what the actual "offense" is called. So you can't even create one called "Policy Reminder" or something like that, unless the system has changed or there is a plugin that allows such a thing, but still functions like the infraction system where any admin/mod can be privy.

This really is the root of the problem. I don't understand why some people get hung up on the word "infraction," but there is no other seemingly less punitory option available with this software, e.g., a policy reminder, besides that of a "warning."

The real problem with only sending the user a PM is on the administrative side of the coin, because then the other present and future staff members have no record of previous non-compliance issues for those users who might have a repetitive habit of posting material that does not conform to the site rules, whether intentional or not. For example, you could have someone who just repeatedly posts one-liners such as "OMG..insane SRH..gonna pop any time now!!!!!" in the FCST threads, yet if staff members always just sent them a simple PM, sans the typical warning or infraction template, then there would never be any record of their repeatedly lackluster posting compliance, which then exacerbates the problem and never allows the staff to recognize a pattern and help the poster improve his or her compliance with the site rules.

 

[Matt Tottle]

It's the same issue they ran into on SpotterNetwork RQC.. I saw many a thread questioning the ratings of reports (I even had one myself, because it confused me too at first).. There was three flags that could be assigned to rate a review - green, yellow, red. The intent was to rate a perfect/exceptional report as green, a good/acceptable report as yellow, and a bad report as red. The problem was when people saw their reports get yellow flagged, because to most people yellow indicates a warning/caution (like the 'yellow card' in soccer or the 'yellow flag' in racing). So they automatically think that it was an indication that their report had things wrong with it, when in reality it was being tagged as good. So now they use star-green-red, which is much more intuitive to the end user. Same problem here: "Infraction" and "Warning" are pretty harsh words, and on most forums imply a serious punishment. They're not really appropriate for a harmless protocol violation.

I definitely understand the issues regarding other admin needing to know about 'reminders'.. I assume this place is set up so that there's a subforum where a new thread is started automatically by the infraction bot, right? What about simply starting a thread manually in there, titled in the same format as the infractions, with a copy/paste of the PM inside? That way the newbie (or veteran) user who made an honest mistake doesn't get offended, and there is a record of the 'reminder' in case someone becomes a problem. I realize it's not the most elegant solution, but it would work.. Again, I haven't kept up on the available vBulletin plugins, but there might be something that allows you to BCC a PM to that forum, similar to the way the infraction bot works.

 

[Peter Hulbert]

there are some long-standing chasers who apparently felt like they would go through the work to post forecasts, only to have those who are newer and have expressed interest in chasing to assumedly "leech" off of their forecasts as opposed to doing the legwork and learning to properly forecast for themselves. I have no idea how bad this problem really is, but apparently the perception of it, whether real or imagined, publicly discourages more people from posting forecasts than it used to.

before anyone asks i am in England UK and my only storm chasing has been with a tour group 2 years running and some thunder storm chasing in uk, but i do like to virtual chase from uk events in the us with Grevel3 and maps online radio cams etc.
My point is that i like to forecast the same as many others do and this forum used to be good for others forecasts to compare your own to and that people posting there forecasts is a very important tool for those learning to forecast to compare there own to so even if there are "leechers" not bothering to do there own its a very valuable resource and may enable a storm newbie to get in the right place and possibly without putting themselves in danger mind that bit probably comes more from knowing your way around a storm but every one has to start somewhere no matter what your hobby/sport etc.,
compared to last year 2010 this year there seemed to be a distinct lack of forecasts, i tried the newer forum set up by some who posted on here but the criteria to get onto the important part of the forum is very restrictive for someone like me and would be difficult to achieve from uk so come on guys start posting your forecasts again please come spring time. regards to all and Happy Christmas as we say in in england.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I definitely understand the issues regarding other admin needing to know about 'reminders'.. I assume this place is set up so that there's a subforum where a new thread is started automatically by the infraction bot, right? What about simply starting a thread manually in there, titled in the same format as the infractions, with a copy/paste of the PM inside? That way the newbie (or veteran) user who made an honest mistake doesn't get offended, and there is a record of the 'reminder' in case someone becomes a problem. I realize it's not the most elegant solution, but it would work.. Again, I haven't kept up on the available vBulletin plugins, but there might be something that allows you to BCC a PM to that forum, similar to the way the infraction bot works.

You could do that, but it still doesn't solve the lack of a quick, easily accessible record issue. What I meant by that is when you click on a user's profile and view it, there is a tab that is labeled "infraction" on the far right-hand side, which lists all past infractions and warnings. You can view this on your own profile, but only administrators can view it on someone else's profile besides yours. That's really what I meant when I was referring to a quick "record" of past offenses, not searching through the infraction bot forum per se. If you just send PMs, then there is no record in the Infraction sub-menu under a user profile. This could probably all be lessened if there was some other option to utilize the exact same process that was labeled something such as a "policy reminder," which still operated under the same procedure, yet banked a list of contacts for administrators in the same way that the present "warning" and "infraction" system currently does.

 

[Matt Tottle]

Forgot about the one in the profile.. I gotcha.

 

[Verne Carlson]

I can't post in the Reports section so that kind of kills it for me.

Your account does not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your account may not be active -- if you are a new user you may need to subscribe to use Stormtrack
2. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. This can happen if you are trying to edit someone else's post or access administrative features.
3. An administrator or moderator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I can't post in the Reports section so that kind of kills it for me.

Your account does not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your account may not be active -- if you are a new user you may need to subscribe to use Stormtrack
2. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. This can happen if you are trying to edit someone else's post or access administrative features.
3. An administrator or moderator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Verne, you should now have access per my PM exchange.

For other users that weren't aware of the recent change, yet would like to get access to the Target Area to post, please follow the instructions below per the Target Area posting rules:

1. Target Area is for advanced discussion of expected severe convective weather events, including named tropical storms, in a structured format that maximizes the signal-noise ratio. Compliance with these rules is MANDATORY, and the consequences for ignoring the rules may lead to termination of Target Area privileges. In short, this is the "hallowed ground" of our site and users can expect a heavy degree of moderation.

2. Read permissions are granted to all Stormtrack users. You do NOT need to apply for Target Area post permission just to view Target Area. As far as the general public and unapproved forum members, they can see the thread titles but cannot view any actual post content.

3. To get Target Area posting permission, go to your User Control Panel and under Permission Groups select "Target Area posting privileges". Currently we are approving most users upon request, but unsatisfactory posts (particularly those devoid of original content or contributing mostly noise and chatter) will result in Target Area probation. During this time, all further Target Area posts will go into a moderation queue and need to be approved by an administrator before they appear. If quality improves over a period of time, probation will be removed. Repeated or willful violations of Target Area rules will result in Target Area post permissions being removed altogether.

 

[Verne Carlson]

Ok cool I can now post reports again - thanks Jesse. Somehow I missed the memo and thought it had just not allowed it anymore.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Just making my end-of-the-month forum visits.

I agree with those who mentioned Facebook, Twitter, G+, etc. For me personally, it boils down to too many services competing for the same time slot. Back when I first started posting here on ST in 2004-ish, this was the only forum / user-generated content site that I was registered to. Basically, if I wanted to post something (a thought, weather-related or not) I came to ST. Circa 2011-2012, that time slot is now divided up with other internet services like Facebook, Twitter, G+, YouTube, Hulu, Netflix, etc..

Quality was only part of the problem, and a very small one at that (again, for me personally). What I really liked about the forecast threads was posting a forecast and either defending it and showing how you came to your conclusion, etc., or just chatting about how others came to a different conclusion. I think one of my last real forecasts here was when I was slapped on the wrist for mentioning / posting about climatology and statistics in the forecast thread. Oops, guess I won't be doing that again. LOL

 

[Andrew Burnett]

A new outsiders perspective - (Shoot me if you will) I am an educated man 4 year engineering degree (not weather related), but when I came on here I was made to feel very inferior and uneducated by many posters. The sites mods particularly. I am an experienced mod since the mid 90's, and this is a classic case of over modding. That's fine if you want an exclusive club, which those that run this site may want. But it's not going to foster growth and folks like me sure as hell are not going to hang around long term. Now I pretty much just pop in once in a while to see if I missed any big weather stories and rarely post.

 

[Rob H]

I am an educated man 4 year engineering degree (not weather related), but when I came on here I was made to feel very inferior and uneducated by many posters.

I spent 15 minutes (before anyone calls me a stalker) and went through your 98 post history. Unless I'm missing deleted posts, even when people had differing opinions or were correcting something that you said, people were extremely civil. If there were deleted posts, then that just means the mods are doing their job.

Like you, a lot of people new to the forums want to be able to participate in FCST or NOW threads. Tim and the mods have told people to start FCST threads in the beginner's forum. I only saw two posts made like this. For something people complained about so much, very little effort was put into the alternative presented. It's almost as if people didn't want to learn as much as they wanted to have their input right next an experienced forecaster's. If I want to read a one sentence forecast with no thought, I'll check Facebook. If I want an outlook, MD, or AFD regurgitated I'll go look at it on the NWS/SPC site.

edit: To be clear here, I'm not specifically attacking your posts - I'm trying to convey the value of the current Target Area threads. There's a reason why guys like Bill Schintler post awesome forecasts that probably take them an hour+ here on Stormtrack, and not on Joe's Unmoderated Weather Shack. Because that well-thought out post would get drowned out by "OMG 5000 MLCAPE and they just issued a tornado watch". There's no incentive to spend time and effort posting forecasts when the guy posting right after you shoots from the hip and doesn't care. So then the experienced people stop posting because they either have nothing to gain from participating in the threads or because they're annoyed. At that point, you might as well just go to Joe's site because the threads have lost all unique and significant contribution.

You don't need a meteorology degree to participate here. Some of the more knowledgeable posters don't have one. Keep in mind though that some of the posters here are 20 year chase veterans, NWS/SPC employees, University employees/researchers, etc. You're entitled to your opinions, but don't be surprised when someone who has written a book on a topic or has spent 10 years researching a topic disagrees with your opinion.

 

[Jesse Risley]

A new outsiders perspective - (Shoot me if you will) I am an educated man 4 year engineering degree (not weather related), but when I came on here I was made to feel very inferior and uneducated by many posters. The sites mods particularly. I am an experienced mod since the mid 90's, and this is a classic case of over modding. That's fine if you want an exclusive club, which those that run this site may want. But it's not going to foster growth and folks like me sure as hell are not going to hang around long term. Now I pretty much just pop in once in a while to see if I missed any big weather stories and rarely post.

Andrew, did you take the time to read through and digest the site rules, as well as those pertaining specifically to the Target Area? Though I ask from more of a rhetorical standpoint, I only inquire candidly and do not mean that question to come across as insulting.

There is no intention of making this site an exclusive haven for the storm chasing illuminati, i.e., the site is not limited to only veteran storm chasers with an established reputation or those who hail from meteorology-related academia, but I can attest that of all the message boards I have either posted on or avidly read, since the Internet became popular in the 1990s, Stormtrack is indeed the most heavily moderated, and it has been since I joined the site. Again, this is nothing new; the site has been operated in a similar manner since its inception as far as I can tell. The reasoning for stringent expectations for post content isn't to foster an exclusive club and berate newer members; on the contrary, the goal has always been to promote a professional resource of information available to storm chasing and severe weather aficionados.

I think the aforesaid example that Robert gave of problematic, one-liner posts that sometimes have plagued quality FCST posts made by other members serves as a great example of my conjecture. This really isn't anything new. The staff strives to be as professional and polite as they possibly can be when addressing posts that run afoul of site rules or procedures, so I wouldn't take that as being akin to trying to make anyone feel "inferior or uneducated."

Many sites probably don't have such a litany of rules or procedures to follow, especially for various sub-forums like our Target Area, but that's always been the one key ingredient that separates Stromtrack from many other message boards and Internet forums where threads often quickly evolve into one-liners and off-topic discussions that are of little relevance to the original topic. While there may be further room for improvement in regards to making the site rules and procedures less ambiguous, Tim and the staff members (past and present) have tried to reorganize the rules and procedures several times over the past few years to make them less cumbersome and more lucid.